Mechanical analog computers in battleships

Saw these visiting the Alabama battleship, also the stable element gyros.
Some of the Hawk aad system used mechanical computers on the ground and vacuum tubes in the missiles when I was in aad in the 1960s..
 
Not sure if it still holds true but lots of the Russian MIG's still used vacuum tubes as they were immune to a EMP attack.
 
There is a lot of info that is so casually given as to be almost silly. Like this "fact":

"Even without digital computers, the Iowa could fire 2,700-pound “dumb” shells nearly 30 miles inland with deadly accuracy, within a circle of probable error of around 80 meters. Some of its shells had circles of destruction larger than that."

Here is the huge problem with that statement. The above is true IF and ONLY IF the ship can SEE the target. North Carolina and Iowa class BBs had radar controlled guns which were decently accurate for water battles because the ocean is usually flat. Yes the mechanical computers were accurate if they were fed accurate target info....but that is the problem as happened in Lebenon in 1982 when the New Jersey fired 11 16 in shells that did no damage to anything except dirt. The Navy could not spot the shells that far inland and the powder was so old that the tragectories were seriously changed by the deteriorated powder. Since they could not see the fall of shot they had to assume the fire was accurate. The modern GPS 5in gun is accurate because it can "see" the fall of shot, even without having spotting planes or drones in the target area.

And the old mechanical analog computers were complete nightmares to repair at sea if they became damaged.

"And while they’re generally reliable, their greatest enemies are friction and mechanical fatigue. Keeping a fire control computer properly lubricated and watching for gear wear is a bit more of a chore than dropping by the local garage for an oil change. Then there’s the issue of “reprogramming” an analog computer. If you want to change the range of inputs they handle or modify the output to account for new variables, that requires the equivalent of a transmission rebuild."

"These electronic computing systems weren’t digital, and they performed the same sorts of functions as gears and cams with analog electronic components. But the electronic parts were lighter and easier to maintain than full-on mechanical systems, and they could integrate with mechanical systems through signal outputs similar to the synchros used to integrate other sensors."

The real conclusion to be drawn is that yes, the old analog computers were in fact amazing, for the time, and got the job done. But the truth is so obvious: Modern digital fire control computers have literally millions of functions that the old mechanical analog computers do not. Just like turntables can and do sound nice, the old analog computers got a job done, although a LOT slower and with a lot more labor and maintenance.

There is really no comparison.
 
Back in the late 80s early 90s they sold what was left of an old Cray computer at a government auction. It was about 7 feet tall, 4 feet deep, and 8 or 10 feet wide. Not much was left of it, and it sold for about scrap if I remember correctly.

I have some hex aluminum standoffs somewhere in the warehouse that have a Cray part number that came from one of the auctions.
 
In the early 80's I was developing digital fire control systems for light tanks. Using 8085 processors (multiple!!) no less.
Project was shelved even though prototypes worked as designed.
I both drooled over, and understood, the M1's system.
 
While analog items were cutting edge for their time, they are hopelessly outclassed by anything modern. I am not sure why some people want for the analog systems to be superior.
 
This thread reminds me of a worn-out mechanical sprinkler timer on our house that I replaced several years ago. It must have been a high-end unit when it was new --- jammed full of countless gears, cams, ratchets, linkages and switches. Had to be more complex than the famous Antikythera Mechanism.
 
am not sure why some people want for the analog systems to be superior.

I'm not so sure that people want these old things to be superior, but merely to be appreciated for their capabilities despite age and technical limitations. If we go back to the moon, we aren't going to do it with a newly built Apollo Guidance Computer, but the AGC is a very cool piece of computing history.
 
When the Washington sank the Japanese battleship Kirishima at Guadalcanal it was using it’s new radar fire control system. Washington may have struck Kirishima with as many as 20 16” shells. The fight was at night and at close range.

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I maintained a Mark 1A Fire Control Computer on the USS Voge. I remember it having this long screwdriver, like 2 feet long, had to slide it through a hole on the side to make maintenance adjustments.
 
Saw these visiting the Alabama battleship, also the stable element gyros.
Some of the Hawk aad system used mechanical computers on the ground and vacuum tubes in the missiles when I was in aad in the 1960s..

Got to see some of those tubes. My old tube tech worked for General Dynamics during the 50's and worked on some of the missiles. I pulled one of the tubes out of box and asked what kind of tube is this and I got to listen to him tell about the missile it was in. I think it went to a proximity fuse. He also told when they were messing with microwaves they had large bare magnetrons that they kept in tubs of water to keep from getting cooked. They all wore badges that showed how much radiation they had been exposed to. He and a coworker were working a few doors down from where the testing was going on when they noticed the badges were showing exposure. They went down to where the testing was going on and they had the magnetron on but out of it's water bath. I wonder what kind of dose the guys in the same room got.

While analog items were cutting edge for their time, they are hopelessly outclassed by anything modern. I am not sure why some people want for the analog systems to be superior.

They looked at replacing the mechanical Fire Control System on the battleships big guns when they were brought out of mothballs but found there was no need as it worked quickly was reliable and effective. Kind of the old adage If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Sorry they talked about in the article posted above
 
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Got to see some of those tubes. My old tube tech worked for General Dynamics during the 50's and worked on some of the missiles. I pulled one of the tubes out of box and asked what kind of tube is this and I got to listen to him tell about the missile it was in. I think it went to a proximity fuse. He also told when they were messing with microwaves they had large bare magnetrons that they kept in tubs of water to keep from getting cooked. They all wore badges that showed how much radiation they had been exposed to. He and a coworker were working a few doors down from where the testing was going on when they noticed the badges were showing exposure. They went down to where the testing was going on and they had the magnetron on but out of it's water bath. I wonder what kind of dose the guys in the same room got.



They looked at replacing the mechanical Fire Control System on the battleships big guns when they were brought out of mothballs but found there was no need as it worked quickly was reliable and effective. Kind of the old adage If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Sorry they talked about in the article posted above

That and it was simply too expensive to re engineer something more modern on a weapon system (like a Battleship) that the Navy knew was going to have a limited life. And yes, the old system worked fine (if extremely complicated and reliable to a point) IF, like I said before the fire controllers could SEE the fall of shot, which they could not when firing inland as seen in Lebanon. In a perfect world yes it worked fine. But often when firing a full broadside the concussion put the computer out of order......along with the radar and radios. Battleships were awesome machines, but they were fairly troublesome to keep operating at 100%.

The problem was even though the mighty Mark 7 16in rifled guns of the Iowa Class could do extreme damage to what ever they hit, there was nothing to shoot at. Long range self guided cruise ordinance have a much greater range than the 16in rifle. The Iowa and North Carolina class battleships were designed to fight other battleships. The other problem with them is that they take a big crew to keep them steaming and use a huge amount of fuel doing so. They are awesome, but simply a dinosaur that has no use in modern blue water combat.
 
Yeah. Billy Mitchell knew they were done early on but it sure did cost him by saying so.

Mitchell was off base. In fact it was the naval dive bomber and torpedo bomber, not the air force horizontal bomber, that were the danger to warships.
 
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