Of he could Econowave the Advents. Bauhausler has a very detailed thread on his build. I have hearf them and found them to be quite nice.
Medium to smallish horn speaker suggestions
- Thread starter elitopus
- Start date
Of he could Econowave the Advents. Bauhausler has a very detailed thread on his build. I have hearf them and found them to be quite nice.
Joe Roberts
Agent Provocateur
Just turn them up loud enough to hear in the living room. problem solved.
Most of the consumer stuff, including Heresys, will not satisfy if you are used to "real" pro horn speakers.
DIY is your best option.
I just bought a pr of tiny Faital Pro tractrix horns for $62 shipped. Not bad as a tweeter with a crisp modern sound but an old plastic Altec 32B was much better in musical drama and engagment. There are lots of cheap small horns around these days.
I'd stare at an Altec 15 and dream it into a form that will fit in the living room. Altec 414 is superb, but moving to something like a B&C 10" would be a good modern option for shrinking the box somewhat.
I had 12" B&C coaxes (polyester diaphragm version is best) and they were extremely good for the surplus price.
Also, consider that you can put a sealed box system right up against a wall and derive useful room gain in the low end, far outperforming anechoic curves, with a long slow LF rolloff that sounds like it.
I think that what you want does not exist in the vintage consumer universe.
Anyway, why limit yourself to compromised consumer junk of any era? Pick your own compromises and roll your own!
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
If DIY's an option -- yeah, there's a lot to be said for coaxials
DSC_5746 by Mark Hardy, on FlickrYou can always do a small coax (8" is a nice compromise size, IMO for extended-range/point source drivers) in a small-ish box and augment LF with a (powered) subwoofer. No shame in that.
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
Heresys are great, as suggested by another post to this thread, if pretty much every thing about them is changed. Do you know the folk tale known as Stone Soup or Nail Broth?
Don't get me wrong -- I started my fleapower journey with a pair of Cornwalls. Like the Cornies, Heresys are sensitive and will play loud and sound like they're having a lot of fun doing it. They are a decent enough gateway drug to high sensitivity, dynamic loudspeakers and fleapower amplification -- but there's just stuff out there that is so, so much better (without a lot of fiddling and 'hidden cost' post-purchase).
I had several Klipsch speakers too and realized that rather than modify them, which I sometimes did, I was better off going in a different direction. By the time you replace the top end of a Cornwall with a 511b and an 802 it occurs to you "why am I listening to this cheap Eminence woofer? I might as well get an Altec 416 and go the whole hog." Goodbye Cornwall, hello Valencia of Model 19. Or as in my case I traded my Cornwalls, back in fairly stock form, for a set of 605s in Barzilay cabinets.
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bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
Altec 9849 monitor. If you cannot find a pair, you can reasonably build them. Mid/early 70's versions have the cast aluminum 32B horn which i find pretty freekin' OK, and i know i'm not alone.
Basically, just get you a pair of 414 woofers, and 32B horns with Altec, Renkus, or Emilar drivers, and box em up!
Basically, just get you a pair of 414 woofers, and 32B horns with Altec, Renkus, or Emilar drivers, and box em up!
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
There have been a lot of good sounding horns over the decades (century) -- perusal of AK posts by some of the 'big names' (which, needless to say, does not include me!) that have posted to this thread will reveal many that are "under the radar" relative to the traditional big-dollar audiophile favorites.
Per Tom's comment: at my house, Cornwalls were replaced by Valencias, and the Valencias by Duplexes. In terms of what I can realistically afford (i.e., the price level I can justify investing in!), I think I am all set.
Per Tom's comment: at my house, Cornwalls were replaced by Valencias, and the Valencias by Duplexes. In terms of what I can realistically afford (i.e., the price level I can justify investing in!), I think I am all set.
elitopus
Addicted Member
The Altec 9849 looks nice. I think since I have some of the parts already I could stay within budget. I could build some nice cabs for those.
Also looking at that link that Tom sent me and thinking about what Joe said, the B&C 12cxt woofers look pretty nice. I would have to hear a pair before I invest in them though
Also looking at that link that Tom sent me and thinking about what Joe said, the B&C 12cxt woofers look pretty nice. I would have to hear a pair before I invest in them though
I never heard a 417 but the 414 is magic in the midrange. Using a 414 in an Advent sized box you'll sacrifice bass extension, as you know, but you'll get midrange that's...I hate to say this... awesome.
Joe Roberts
Agent Provocateur
B&C 12CXB is what you want not the titanium CXT version. I have had both. The CXB is a very fine coax and will play on 5W. Trick is to find them used.
Altec 9849s are what I'd be thinking , but I said Model 15 becuase it is more recognizable. I think I could build a pr better than Altec did, if I could do cabinets but you can't go wrong with the parts.
The debate between plastic 32Bs and metal ones is still going on in my head. I'm trying both right now for a build and really they are both good, but very different considering they are more or less the same horn. Plastic is super rich and involving, hot cocoa with whipped cream. Your wife would love it. The metal one is a dry martini.
Altec 417 is a musical instrument woofer.
Altec 414 Bowtie and I are talking about is a 12". This are way up there in quality at very reasonable prices compared to 15" Altecs. I have a pair going now and have many times in the past. They are great. AND they will play high, allowing use of a small HF horn. I'm cutting in a horn at 5-6k first order in my current experiments and the 414 is smooth as silk.
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
Altec wrote the book on awesome midrange. Well, Peter Walker's company, Acoustical Manufacturing Co., Ltd. had a chapter in there, too, called "Quality Unit Amplifier Domestic" electrostatic loudspeaker of 1957 (known to many as the QUAD ESL-57). That chapter wasn't found near the "fleapower amp" chapter, though ;-)
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
I was worried I might have given you a misconception about the cab. I thought about it later and said to myself, he's gonna' get the wrong idea, I know it."
Nah, the whole "9 cubic feet" thing? That's just my idea of the ULTIMATE Super 12 cab (Those big 9ft woofer enclosures they used for that huge corner speaker can also accommodate a Super 12 by itself, with or without the crossover and two additional drivers up on top, ABOVE that woofer cab... That cab is the one they used at those "live vs recorded" events... Instead of doing the whole 3-way, omni-directional thing, you could also just use the woofer enclosure by itself with the Super 12 mounted inside... But again, that's just an example of totally-maxing out the Super 12... Most people use enclosures that are half ).
No, all you need are some Barzilay-sized ported cabs to make the Super 12's do what they do best.
When it comes to mids the large, ported Wharfedale models from the tail end of the tube era are DAMN-hard to beat. A reason for this is those tweeters. I know a lot of people love horn-loaded speakers, but those Super 3 cone tweeters are just dreamy combined with their woofers and midwoofers. They make horn instruments sound superb. Silky-smooth on a level like no other. And the way that silky-smooth leading edge blends seamlessly with the midwoofers and woofers, it creates the sweetest horn instrument sounds I've ever heard (It's like when you hear horn instruments in a really-great room... It sounds not just real, but MUSICAL as well.
I do like SOME horn-loaded speakers, but I'm fussy about it. My ears are hyper-sensitive about forward-sounding speakers, even ones that are only forward to a SLIGHT degree. I can't do EV, JBL, Stephens, Lowther, Frazier, Klipsch, etc. Not a thing wrong with any of those brands or their design principles (or horn-loading). I just happen to like a smooth, relaxing, easy speaker to listen to, and one with a bit of warmth to it. That's my sonic comfort zone.
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When old Twanger kicks the bucket they'll have to bury under a Wharfedale version of something like this.
elitopus
Addicted Member
When old Twanger kicks the bucket they'll have to bury under a Wharfedale version of something like this.
Thats freakin awesome
icenine
Super Member
http://www.klipsch.com/rb-5-bookshelf-speaker/detail
Can't go wrong, not too big and not too small and can easily be powered by a 5wpc amp...plus the woofer is 8 inches.
Can't go wrong, not too big and not too small and can easily be powered by a 5wpc amp...plus the woofer is 8 inches.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
When old Twanger kicks the bucket they'll have to bury under a Wharfedale version of something like this.
Damn-straight.
:yes:(No A7 though... Probably just a fake "selfie" of me and Mr. Briggs, made of concrete, the two of us with an arm around each other, like I got a picture of myself with some aging rock star at a concert I went to... That sort of thing... I can totally see it... But instead of Steve Lukather or Yngwie Malmsteen, it would be the late Father Briggs from the Holy Church Of Wharfedale)
:thmbsp:
I do love that sound though. Even those W12 woofers contribute a lot of that midrange. Briggs didn't like horns for whatever reason. He had plenty of help, but that classic Wharfedale voicing of those early '60's drivers, that was HIS sound. It comes from those really-early Wharfedale drivers from back when he was designing them himself. The core of that sound never changed while he was running the company. They just improved the extension and dynamics and worked on eliminating resonances/lowering the resonant frequency and all that stuff.
@ elitopus: Let us know what you find out about the University drivers you mentioned. That would be great if he had them and they worked out for you. I want to get a pair of 315's at some point. They would be my Duplex. Warmer and more-laid-back, and more my thing (Altecs are out of my budget anyway, unless I find a pair of rough-looking ones that still work somehow).
RIP, "Dickie."
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Joe Roberts
Agent Provocateur
GangTwanger, you must look past the pedestrian 511/811 to get to the less in your face Altec. I've had Altec stuff for 30 years and will until I get my 755A tombstone and I have to say those particular horns are brash and in your grill like no get out.
Pair of 811As for $50, anybody?
Large format multicells for example are quite laid back and dynamic as Hades at the same time. The junky looking plastic 32B is fat, creamy, and laid back as can be.
Laid back is cool but not at the expense of dynamic range. With the right horn, some of which are Altec, you can have both.
Of course, none of this green stuff will please a seasoned Anglophile... maybe a cup of Vitavox then ol' chap.
My point is...what is my point...oh yeah, even though most horns are on the blatant, up your nostril side, not all are.
.
Pair of 811As for $50, anybody?
Large format multicells for example are quite laid back and dynamic as Hades at the same time. The junky looking plastic 32B is fat, creamy, and laid back as can be.
Laid back is cool but not at the expense of dynamic range. With the right horn, some of which are Altec, you can have both.
Of course, none of this green stuff will please a seasoned Anglophile... maybe a cup of Vitavox then ol' chap.
My point is...what is my point...oh yeah, even though most horns are on the blatant, up your nostril side, not all are.
.
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
A 1505 loaded by a 288 is just an amazingly satisfying thing to hear. Unfortunately, something amazing would have to happen to my investments to ever afford even a mono setup including such.
(and, just as a little counterpoint to the previous post -- I've gotta admit I find the 811A far more pleasant than a Klipsch Heritage sqwaker, e.g.)
(and, just as a little counterpoint to the previous post -- I've gotta admit I find the 811A far more pleasant than a Klipsch Heritage sqwaker, e.g.)
