Melody vs lyrics?

[Quadman2]

Tonight I decided to play some big band music...Glenn Miller. I really enjoy this genre, even though it was before my time.

Some of Miller's works were played with words in the arrangements, but the majority just have the full complement of instruments. So, got to thinking in the balance of things... which music component plays the more important part...the melody or the lyrics?

Take Cohen/Dylan and other composers who I think leaned towards the messages that they wanted to share and others on the other hand, who seemed to put more effort into the melodies.

Is one more important than the other? Are they equally weighted? Does when they were created have a determining impact on which is focussed on? Is it the target audience?

I've often wondered how people in music start out to create a music composition where words and melody have to be merged...or if words are really necessary and to what degree?

Comments?

Q2

 

[MAC TED]

Tonight I decided to play some big band music...Glenn Miller. I really enjoy this genre, even though it was before my time.

Some of Miller's works were played with words in the arrangements, but the majority just have the full complement of instruments. So, got to thinking in the balance of things... which music component plays the more important part...the melody or the lyrics?

Take Cohen/Dylan and other composers who I think leaned towards the messages that they wanted to share and others on the other hand, who seemed to put more effort into the melodies.

Is one more important than the other? Are they equally weighted? Does when they were created have a determining impact on which is focussed on? Is it the target audience?

I've often wondered how people in music start out to create a music composition where words and melody have to be merged...or if words are really necessary and to what degree?

Comments?

Q2

I believe Mr Cohen creates some of the best melodies on the planet.

 

[Quadman2]

I believe Mr Cohen creates some of the best melodies on the planet.

Didn't mean to lower the importance of his songs...but I felt that most lean towards the messages, both overt and covert shared in his songs from both his experiences in life and others. Good music has at least one thing going for it. With both, it's great!

Q2

 

[Mystic]

Tonight I decided to play some big band music...Glenn Miller. I really enjoy this genre, even though it was before my time.

Some of Miller's works were played with words in the arrangements, but the majority just have the full complement of instruments. So, got to thinking in the balance of things... which music component plays the more important part...the melody or the lyrics?

Take Cohen/Dylan and other composers who I think leaned towards the messages that they wanted to share and others on the other hand, who seemed to put more effort into the melodies.

Is one more important than the other? Are they equally weighted? Does when they were created have a determining impact on which is focussed on? Is it the target audience?

I've often wondered how people in music start out to create a music composition where words and melody have to be merged...or if words are really necessary and to what degree?

Comments?

Q2

Cohen, Dylan, Reed, (Patti) Smith, (Richard) Thompson, etc. Many of the best lyricists happen also to write some smashing melodies. Even that Springsteen cat.

 

[Mystic]

Have ya heard Christie Moore? Lyrics 'n' melodies are all there, me hardie.

 

[Mystic]

Then again, there is The Ramones to consider. Lyrical strength? Um, +5. Melodic strength? +100.

 

[Quadman2]

Just this morning I heard a couple of announcers in conversation with each other about how they view "lyrics" and "melodies".

One said that lyrics don't mean much to her, and she rarely knows the words to most songs. She knew some of the choruses, but little in the way of the rest of the songs. The "melodies" were more important to her.

The other announcer says that he went outta his way to remember the words, and the melodies were of secondary importance.

I wonder how many people really DO know the lyrics today...or have we become a listening audience. Guess in the past, people sang more for entertainment...which is only found in Karakoe bars today, eh? Even then, they have to depend on monitors for the words.

Q2

 

[stereofanboy]

The sound matters most to me, so I guess I would rank importance this way;

version
arrangement
melody
lyrics

 

[rwartner]

As a child I would stand next to my dad in church listening to him sing, thinking how awful. I have the same 2 or 3 notes. Anyway I like listening to the sound and most songs you can't understand the lyrics anyway. It's funny sometimes listening to people's interpretations. I thought one of the reasons the Beatles were popular is that their songs were so sing along. Except for me of course.

 

[Pio1980]

Joni Mitchell, imo one that gets it all together.

 

[johnebravo]

If the lyrics are strong, but the melody/harmony/rhythm, etc. are very weak, very few people will have much interest in it, and the music will be largely a failure. But if the melody/harmony/rhythm are really strong, and the lyrics are completely inane, no one is bothered by the lyrics, and the music can still be very successful. That strongly suggests to me that the music is far, far, more important than the lyrics. Of course, I listen mostly to instrumental music anyway, so that's obviously going to be my view. When I do listen to music that has vocals, the lyrics, if I notice them at all, are frequently so vacuous that I have to actively ignore them.

Maybe contemporary hip hop -- which I can't appreciate at all -- might be a counterexample though, since it has, it seems to me, very little in the way of melody/harmony, and is mostly pretty basic rhythm and lots and lots of lyrics. That's obviously an extremely popular form of contemporary music, and I'm assuming that the audience that enjoys it must be attracted to it, at least in large part, because of the lyrics.

 

[stevo137]

There once was a great band called Angel and I saw them perform.

Most of their music was not recorded or mixed well at all and I believe that is why most don't remember or have heard of them.
Really, I hate to say this but their music sounds bad but really good music.

Melody, harmony lyrics, mostly what matters is that we enjoy listening to it and it sounds good.

 

[Quadman2]

If the lyrics are strong, but the melody/harmony/rhythm, etc. are very weak, very few people will have much interest in it, and the music will be largely a failure. But if the melody/harmony/rhythm are really strong, and the lyrics are completely inane, no one is bothered by the lyrics, and the music can still be very successful. That strongly suggests to me that the music is far, far, more important than the lyrics. Of course, I listen mostly to instrumental music anyway, so that's obviously going to be my view. When I do listen to music that has vocals, the lyrics, if I notice them at all, are frequently so vacuous that I have to actively ignore them.

Maybe contemporary hip hop -- which I can't appreciate at all -- might be a counterexample though, since it has, it seems to me, very little in the way of melody/harmony, and is mostly pretty basic rhythm and lots and lots of lyrics. That's obviously an extremely popular form of contemporary music, and I'm assuming that the audience that enjoys it must be attracted to it, at least in large part, because of the lyrics.

So, does it boils down to GENRE which dictates as to how the scale sways as to whether lyrics or melody is of prime importance?

Q2

 

[Estring]

A good melody is like your favorite cake. Good lyrics are like finding a tasty filling in that cake.

 

[johnebravo]

So, does it boils down to GENRE which dictates as to how the scale sways as to whether lyrics or melody is of prime importance?

Q2

I would say that it boils down to the individual's preferences, not the genre. The lyrics are never important to me, but I'm assuming that some people care, and that, for at least some of those people, the lyrics might be critical for their enjoyment.

 

[Quadman2]

As already mentioned...the melding of the two is the ultimate goal.

 

[musichal]

I've always felt that Paul Simon is a Master of both lyric and melody.

 

[grillebilly]

So, does it boils down to GENRE which dictates as to how the scale sways as to whether lyrics or melody is of prime importance?
Q2

Probably so. Woody Guthrie wrote lyrics to thousands of folk songs with no music. Some psychedelic bands use vocals as more of an instrument than "words".
I could listen to music with no words much longer than the opposite, so my vote is the music caries the song. Most middle-school aged kids would think I was wrong.

Example of vocals blending into instrumentation (at least to me)

 

[Quadman2]

Probably so. Woody Guthrie wrote lyrics to thousands of folk songs with no music. Some psychedelic bands use vocals as more of an instrument than "words".
I could listen to music with no words much longer than the opposite, so my vote is the music caries the song. Most middle-school aged kids would think I was wrong.

Example of vocals blending into instrumentation (at least to me)

You make some good points, gb. Classical music for the most part validates itself on instrumentals. And ya, the rap kids might think that about you, but I can't speak for them.

Q2

 

[gggvan]

Let's face it, popular music is not the best place to find quality literature. Even if it was, good lyrics would be pointless with a good song. To me, any message, no matter how profound, touching, heartfelt is meaningless without a good song.