Mid-50's GE A1-400 speakers / GE A1-406 cabinets

[mfrench]

I've taken the time to repair this thread, and replace the Photobucket blight that they created.
These speakers are not common, and, less so with thier cabinets. So, I've updated the photopukeit blanks with real images. I hope you enjoy, and find it useful.
to the original thread,....

I bought these a couple of weeks ago from a craigslist listing, and have been thoroughly enjoying them.
There is not a lot of information about them. I found a thread on AudioAsylum in their regard, and have posted it below the pictures.
I posted these images in the Lowboy pictures thread, but thought they were interesting enough to warrant their own thread.

Low-boys, left and right of towers:







The following is a thread regarding these speakers from AudioAsylum:
GE A1-400's
• Posted by Tubes n' Hornz (A) on August 9, 2003 at 09:59:47
I've got a pair of GE A1-400's in the original A1-406 cabinets from the early 1950's. Has anybody done anything with these speakers, as far as sound improvement, or should I leave well enough alone? Thanks - Steve


Re: GE A1-400's
• Posted by Bold Eagle (A) on August 9, 2003 at 20:31:12 In Reply to: GE A1-400's posted by Tubes n' Hornz on August 9, 2003 at 09:59:47:

I had one of these back in 1955. My first decent system using an Eico HF-20 with a Garrard RC-88 and a GE phono cart.
I'd leave them alone and enjoy them for a piece of history. When I had mine, I tried various "improvements" and all I did was degrade them. My opinion of them is that they were exceptionally well engineered. I just didn't realize it in time.
The closed back tweeter crossed over at 1500 Hz, and had a dispersion screen over the tweeter similar to the ones used by Kloss on the KLH 6 and later KLH 17. The tweeter also has an extended pole piece to act as a "phase plug". Crossover is first order electrical to the tweeter, but probably 3rd order acoustic. Very well matched to the woofer, so there is no dip or bump at the crossover.
The woofer has a slotted sheetmetal plate over the front which acts as a mounting for the tweeter, an acoustic resistance for the woofer cone, an acoustical low pass filter, and a dispersion device (acoustic lens) to get broader dispersion at crossover. Bolting the tweeter to the plate and mounting the plate to the woofer frame nicely damps out all resonances in the plate. The tweeter also acts as a "phase plug" for the woofer output. The later A1-401 was the same except the plate was painted gold instead of brown.
Back in the mid 50's the hallmarks of fine quality speakers was massive magnets, cast aluminum frames, and huge voice coils. The GE had none of these, so I looked down on it. (we still make mistakes like that) The ignorance and consumerism of a teenager. It was only later I learned about matching the magnetic circuit to the mass of the cone and the enclosure type. The magnet on the A1-400 was just the right size for the design, the stamped steel frame was more than stiff enough, and the 1.5" VC was big enough; and the "distributed port" enclosure gives just the right Q in the bass.
I had my speaker out on a glassed in sun porch. I can remember playing an RCA recording of Jose' Iturbi, the pianist, with the windows open. People passing by on the sidewalk would stop and look for the piano player inside. The A1-400 had one of the best piano sounds I ever had. It also was on most lists of "best buys" in that era.
I tried removing the sheetmetal front plate and mounting the tweeter separately, I tried a midrange, I tried a more sophisticated crossover, and I tried a bunch of different enclosure types. All were steps backward.
Proper feeding for those is a tube amp with a DF of around 6-10. Higher Damping Factors will result in the bass tailing off a bit.
Jerry


Re: GE A1-400's
• Posted by orthophonic (A) on August 9, 2003 at 23:41:35 In Reply to: Re: GE A1-400's posted by Bold Eagle on August 9, 2003 at 20:31:12:

Agree 100% with Bold Eagle. I have 3 sets of these (
unfortunately I have never been able to locate the
GE factory cabinets, I have the plans, but am lousy at
woodworking!). They are very nice speakers, very detailed,
and exceptionally smooth & sweet. Some people damp
the cone basket, but I haven't tried that, they sound
very good as is. I actually prefer them to the Altec 604.
Paul


Re: GE A1-400's
• Posted by Tubes n' Hornz (A) on August 10, 2003 at 05:57:51 In Reply to: Re: GE A1-400's posted by orthophonic on August 9, 2003 at 23:41:35:

Jerry/Paul - thanks a bunch for the info. I shall leave well enough alone. Will be hooking these up to a pair of W4-MA's or my EL34 amp. Will find out which give me what I'm looking for. Steve

 

[sstring]

These were very good speakers. The cone tweeter is a very well engineered and very good good. I would love to have a pair in cabinets like you have.

Nice find!

 

[Redboy]

Very interesting! I didn't realize there were two different drivers in there! I love the floated tweeter - that sure reminds me of a hubcap, though...

Mike, I'd be tempted to ditch the fabric grillcloth to expose that cool driver!

 

[mfrench]

Hi Nate,

I'm not sure how to do that. They seem to have a permanently installed grill cloth.
I'm assuming that the cloth would somehow be fastened to the front baffle (stapled), and that I'd need to unscrew/remove the baffle?
I wouldn't mind replacing the grill cloth either, as these do show a bit of aging, slightly discolored/stained; its very slight though. If original, they've held up remarkably well.
The worst thing that I'm looking at in "restoring" them, is that the veneer on the left speaker is pretty banged up around the top edge, and on the top.

These images, below, were originally part of the original post. In editing, and replacing Photobucket blanks, I had to move them here, due to a 10 image limit.


And a few more random pics...
inside of cabinet with driver removed:

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I love those things. The cabs look just like Aristocrats, but I suspect I would like the sound of the GE driver more than I would like the EV (I've never been an EV guy... I know they're great and all... Just not my thing).

I love the old drivers from the tube era. The speaker industry went through a long period of dramatic changes when the world went solid-state, and IMO a lot of the personality was lost (especially by the late '70/early '80's). There were some truly-amazing speakers made back in those "Golden Age Of Stereo" days, and they were designed without the benefit of all the computerized, CNC lazer-type doodads and software they use today. And in my opinion they LOOKED better too.

Not sure if I asked you this already or not, but what is that great-looking console thingy in the back-right of the picture?

 

[mfrench]

G-T,

Well, there are two consoles in that right corner.
One is Audrey, a 1934 Art-Deco era phonograph cabinet that I renovated to contain early-to-mid-50's monaural hifi gear.
The TT is a Presto Recording Corp. 15G2 from early 50's (c.1952); tonearm is GE A1-500 Baton c. early 50's, cartridge is GE RPX; amp is a Harman-Kardon 10w mono integrated tube amp.
I finished Audrey a couple of years ago.

The other is a mid-century modern audio console that I picked up, and intend to pair up with these GE speakers. It has a Bogen-Presto B61 heavy platter TT built into it.
This particular console, and these GE speakers are my latest project. I intend to keep them paired together as a component console system.

Audrey project:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=321665

Bogen-Presto B61 Mid-Century Console project:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=472491

 

[gadget73]

I was actually thinking E-V when I saw those pics. I had no idea GE made such a thing. Looks like a nice set of speakers.

 

[frperdurabo]

Thanks for posting this. I never knew GE made anything other than BPC. Those look neat - bet they sound heavenly. If I had them I'd mix up a pitcher of Tom Collinses and put on some Arthur Lyman.....

 

[stickman]

Those drivers are totally cool and in perfect condition! Its too bad the grill cloth cannot be removed from those cabinets as drilling a hole to mount the tweeter separately and getting rid of the hubcap in front of the woofer should improve the sound quite a bit. Also that old paper/foil & oil capacitor on the tweeter should be replaced with a high quality non-polarized modern piece.

Those woofer baskets are distinctly RCA in appearance but the large alnico slug magnet and woofer dust cap look like Jensen sourced parts to me, so I wonder if Jensen made these for RCA?

These units do turn up on Fleabay on occasion and their is always collector interest and decent selling prices involved. I would love to get my hands on a pair of these if I came across them at a thrift store.

 

[ejfud]

Man those are neat. Drivers with bling!

 

[mfrench]

Thanks for posting this. I never knew GE made anything other than BPC. Those look neat - bet they sound heavenly. If I had them I'd mix up a pitcher of Tom Collinses and put on some Arthur Lyman.....

Lyman exotica sounds wonderful through them. I have an extensive collection of early hawaiian and exotica, and have already given them that run of music.



There seems to have been a turning point with GE audio. I don't know at what point. They did build some amazing gear though.
So, my GE A1-xxx collection now stands at - A1-400 speakers (x2), A1-406 cabinets (x2), A1-500 tonearm; a collection of which I never intended to begin.

This is an example of their good years - This is my GE A1-500 Baton radio broadcast tonearm, designed for their RPX cartridge, both from the earliest 50's.
You'll note that it could double as a heavy duty crane when not spinning records:

 

[mfrench]

These are a couple of more eBay listing images that I grabbed. They show what were the original legs for these speakers. My cabinets have been drilled for these legs, though they are missing; the holes still have t-nuts in them from the original legs.
I'd like to replace them, I think. Replacing them would serve to elevate them from the floor, restore them to an original concept, and, elevate them to match the height of the mid-century console cabinet that I intend to "pair" them up to, to get them to a similar height.
Would there be a detrimental sound issue by doing this?

eBay sourced images, not my speakers:



Just below the main driver hole, you'll see a smeared horizontal line. I'm not sure what that is, perhaps an acoustic treatment to the face of the baffles? It is protruding outward from the face of the baffle by 1/4" to 3/8", and is associated with a horizontal brace directly behind it. The brace is attached to the back side of the baffle, and not attached to the cabinet walls; you can see it in the images above, with the cabinet back removed, and peeking through the grill cloths of the eBay sourced images.
View attachment 1033442

 

[Redboy]

I don't think there would be any significant detriment to the sound, though as you move them off the floor you might notice a change in bass response (less bass as you go higher).

I think they should have feet.

 

[mfrench]

Oy,... more photobucket blight that needs fixing.

I had a question asked of me, a request, for cabinet specs.
Obliging,....

These measurements are the outermost finished dimensions, of each cabinet compnent section.
Sections:
(1)Top "plate", and, (2)main cabinet body

Top specs,....


Main cabinet body front face specs:


At 10", ^, there is a horizontal brace attached to the baffle that is 1" thick, and it seems to be two inches wide; true dimensional 1"x2" stock (maybe 1x3?). It is attached to the baffle only, and not attached to the cabinet at all.
The bass reflex holes are below the brace, and the main speaker cutout is above the brace.

And, here are more images, a complete set, from a set of cabinets listed on eBay:



thanks to the admin for helping me get this edited and restored!

 

[mfrench]

Very interesting! I didn't realize there were two different drivers in there! I love the floated tweeter - that sure reminds me of a hubcap, though...

Mike, I'd be tempted to ditch the fabric grillcloth to expose that cool driver!

Well, now just over five years later, I'm thinking about doing just that. I was looking at the grill cloth (not original), and thinking about how I could utilize some fabric to cover these rough holes that were drilled into the lower baffle as bass ports, to cover the fugly. And then focusing on exposing and finishing out the driver area so that it would look nice when exposed.

A question for the speaker cabinet experts,....
I'm helping out a member here who wants to build a set of these cabinets for a set of the GE coax speakers. In doing some measurements, I found an oddity on the front baffle that the experts here might be able to figure out.
The front baffle has a horizontal protrusion out from its face, about 3/8" wide, and spanning the width of the baffle. It sticks out from the baffle face by 1/4" to 3/8" (sorry, but my easurements are being done through the grill cloth, while trying not to immediately damage it). This protrusion is about 10" up from the bottom of the grill cloth, and, about 14" down from the top of the grill cloth. It is arranged just above a series of holes that are intended as bass porting, "Bass Reflex Ports".

Are we talking about some form of seismic/vibration baffle? Something to keep the grill cloth from "flapping in the wind"?
It seems soft. I was able to push a sharp through the grill cloth, and then through this material, and finally hitting hard plywood baffle.
So its soft, applied to the baffle face, just above the bass port holes.

Any guesses?
I'm going to go grab a few images that hint at this thing.

OK,... in this image, below, you can see it just below the main speaker cut out, and just above the 3/4" bass port hole array.

In this image, below, you can see the same item, same location, behind this original grill cloth

 

[mfrench]

Here are some dimensional images and thoughts on construction...

The bottom plate is cut to fit within the walls of the main cabinet, supporting the base of the cabinet walls:


The wall thickness:


The top plate.
The top plate is cut large enough to overhang the sides by 1/8" on either side.


Baffle brace:


THe baffle brace is screwed to the baffle, and not attached to the cabinet at all.


Random shots inside cabinet showing joinery:

 

[mfrench]

The front face...
This is the interface between the top plate, and the side walls.
The top plate and sidewalls form the main box. Then there is an added 3/4" trim strip around the inside of the box opening, added to the sides and top.


The base of the face is fronted by this trim strip; 1 1/8" x 3/4"

That is actually two bottoms of speakers together, ^^, stacked, to prevent scratching the top of one of them.
You can see the 1/2" plywood sidewall where the veneer has chipped away.

overall face shot...
The baffle is screwed to the inside of the trim strip on the interior of the cabinet.

 

[sqlsavior]

Interesting speakers!

Thanks for re-doing the pictures.

 

[ecarlson]

I've got 1 cabinet with speaker and feet. I haven't looked inside in years, so I don't know which speaker it has. It's in my parent's garage, but I will soon bring it to my house and try it out. I guess I could set up a mono system. Here is the label on the back.

 

[walloffound]

Here is pair of these GE coaxials. Looking forward to building the cabs sometime soon.
I tried them out in an open baffle just to test and they sounded very nice, worth keeping in my opinion not just for how cool they look