Migrating from Airplay (DLNA) to Bluetooth Apt-X for my streaming pleasure

BillyBatts

ALOHA!
Aloha gents.

I've been a big fan of Airplay/DLNA receivers. I have an older iPhone and iPad, and they make great streaming devices with Airplay. And my Airplay receivers are also DLNA compatible, so I can stream via WiFi from a Windows Music Server (Windows 10 Laptop) and from my BlackBerry Passport. The Passport is actually an amazing phone and streaming device, with full FLAC music DLNA server built-in as well as Apt-X Bluetooth streaming.

Lately, even with an incredible WiFi network, my Airplay/DLNA has left me a little miffed at times. It seams that more often than not, I have to reboot somthing. It's not just set it and forget it. The WiFi Hub, the Airplay/DLNA receivers and/or the iPhone/iPad sometimes need a reboot. And it's problematic streaming DLNA from my Windows Laptop because the receivers can only take ONE DLNA FLAC file at a time, or they have a nervous breakdown and need to be reset, as does the Windows Music Server. Also, one of my Airplay DLNA devices was OPEN (no password required) and I noticed a neighbor was connecting to it and gaining free WiFi coutesy of me. Obviously, that device has been taken out of service.

A few years ago, along comes Bluetooth Apt-X. It is "theoretically" lossles audio transfer. I have done extensive critical listening comparisons between Apt-X and Airplay/DLNA and I honestly can't tell any difference when streaming FLAC. There certainly is no difference when streaming FM Terrestrial or most canned websites that stream at 256 kpbs or less. IMO, Bluetooth 3.0 was when 256 and lower resolution streaming of Bluetooth became equal to Airplay/DLNA. But even at pure FLAC levels, my ears have told me after close to a hundred hours of comparison (and I am not exaggerating on the time here), that it makes no difference if I deliver music via Airplay/DLNA or Bluetooth Apt-X. None at all.

So I have purchased a plethora of Bluetooth Apt-X receivers to replace or supplement my Airplay/DLNA receivers on all of my systems. There are advantages of Bluetooth and disadvantages. Bluetooth is easy, it's peer to peer so it does not rely on a WiFi network, and it's usually eaiser to manage. Sometimes DLNA requires tweaking or there are hidden volume controls. Airplay, not so, but sometimes DLNA is a bit fussy. Yet, as many of you know, there are disadvantages. Range is limited to about 50 feet on Bluetooth and it does not like going through walls or doors. Also, if you are streaming via a live phone (like my BlackBerry Passport), incoming calls can be an issue and you have to switch to handset or you will be talking through your HiFi system. Not so with Airplay/DLNA.

But Bluetooth Apt-X has been as solid as the Rock of Gibralter. No dropouts as long as I'm in range, no rebooting, resetting, tweaking, nothing. And my Laptop is Apt-X compatible, so I can finally stream complete albums without having to go song by song. So much easier than DLNA streaming. And, as an ultra bonus, I have a few Apt-X wireless Bluetooth Earbud and headsets that sound absolutely spectacular with the new Apt-X codec in command of the streaming.

I'll continue to run both as I am not ready to retire my old iPad/iPhone yet as streaming devices, but I think gone are the days when I stream from non-Apple devices via DLNA. I'm going Bluetooth Apt-X only on non-Apple and when I finally retire Apple for good in a few years, I think I'll stick 100 pecent with Bluetooth Apt-X. Heck, by then, Apt-X gen 3-4-5 or Apt-Y will most likely be the new standard, most likely tweaking range and battery life only since Apt-X is already lossless. Although a new Codec is possibly on the horizon to totally revamp the way Bluetooth streams lossless files.

Thoughts?
 
I am not sure what "theoretically" lossless means. Something is either lossless or it is not.

"We contacted Qualcomm with questions, and our thanks to Jonny McClintock, director of aptX Sales and Marketing at Qualcomm, for providing the following answers.

S+I: Can you confirm whether aptX HD is a lossless or lossy codec?
JM: The aptX HD is technically a Lossy codec...."

http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-image/aptx-hd---lossless-or-lossy-442124

Not much more needs to be said..it is lossy.

The main reason I use Airplay is that it is lossless with 16/44.1 files. Though, I don't have your issues and have never had those issues. I don't use DLNA very often, though. My Yamaha WCX-50 has DLNA built in and I have tested it with 24/192 and DSD files and everything plays fine on my network.

That being said, as you said, the main advantage to Bluetooth is that it does not require wifi, so it is very stable. I use it in the car and at work everyday and I occasionally use it at home with my Echo. I just don't want to move to something with compression for my main listening setups. Also, you don't have the option to send audio to more than one receiver at a time with Bluetooth, so that would get in the way on occasion, too. My other issue is the range which would be a problem when I am grilling outside and sending audio to my Airport Express setup in the sunroom.

That being said, if you have issues with devices that use wifi, it definitely avoids that issue. It is why it is so good for headphones, cars, and at work.:thumbsup:
 
APT-x is lossy. And BlueTooth itself is very lossy. And therefore degrade audio quality. APT-x is the best available music option for BlueTooth use and is decent for casual use.
 
The AptX is lossy, but at the quality level similar with mp3 - 320kbps. Very damn close of loseless.
AptX HD, that was released recently, improves on that allowing 24 bit/48kHz, lossy, but a "gentle" lossy.
http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-image/aptx-hd---lossless-or-lossy-442124
The aptX HD is technically a Lossy codec. However as aptX HD uses a relatively gentle compression ratio of 4:1 it is non-destructive in nature. As it is based on ADPCM and not psycho-acoustic perceptual based principles, aptX HD uses predictive analysis rather than attempting to replicate the performance of the human hearing via a synthetic ear.
To achieve 24 bit word depth and supporting a sampling frequency of 48kHz requires 576kBit/s
Sony has their proprietary codec LDAC that supposed to be very good too, but support is limited as of now to Sony devices.
More: http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-image/what-is-aptx-hd---a-new-boost-for-bluetooth-414111

Both AptXHD and LDAC will be supported natively in the next version of Android "O":
http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/0...ill-add-support-for-aptx-bluetooth-streaming/
Apple devices don't support anything on Bluetooth, except the basic, lower quality, SBC.

Something like Chromecast Audio is capable to stream loseless 24 bit/96kHz over WiFi (preferably using the 5GHz band).
 
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Aloha gents.

I've been a big fan of Airplay/DLNA receivers. I have an older iPhone and iPad, and they make great streaming devices with Airplay. And my Airplay receivers are also DLNA compatible, so I can stream via WiFi from a Windows Music Server (Windows 10 Laptop) and from my BlackBerry Passport. The Passport is actually an amazing phone and streaming device, with full FLAC music DLNA server built-in as well as Apt-X Bluetooth streaming.

Lately, even with an incredible WiFi network, my Airplay/DLNA has left me a little miffed at times. It seams that more often than not, I have to reboot somthing. It's not just set it and forget it. The WiFi Hub, the Airplay/DLNA receivers and/or the iPhone/iPad sometimes need a reboot.
There are only two things I can think of that could be causing this issue. I have used fantastic wifi systems (like I have now) and not as great setups like the TP Archer C5 and have not experienced those issues other than when I first got my Phillips Wifi speaker for the kitchen. The Phillips speaker would only use one very popular IP address and quite often there was already something assigned to it. It took me forever to figure out that I need to change the address of the other device. However, once it was changed, the Airplay signal was rock solid.

The second issue is that, if I remember correctly, you are buying "off-branded" stuff that has DLNA and Airplay built in. My Denon receiver and Yamaha device I mentioned above also have both and they both work without issues. However, these are brands that stand behind their products, so they have to make them reliable or they will hear from clients. My guess, assuming you have great wifi, is that the "off-branded", inexpensive devices are the problem.

As I said, given the option between a signal that drops out all the time or using a rock solid Bluetooth compressed signal, I would go with the rock solid signal every time. I just think there is something else at play here outside of the capabilities of DLNA and Airplay streaming.
 
I appreciate that UOMT. Honestly, the Bluetooth Apt-X sounds amazing, so it's hard for me to justify staying on WiFi. But you are most likely correct. ALL of the product I'm using for RECEIVERS is 3rd party aftermarket, because I wanted a combo Airplay/DLNA device, not just Airplay.

But unlike Apple's Airplay, DLNA does NOT allow easy streaming of just "anything" you choose. DLNA likes you to choose a specific file to stream, like THIS FLAC file or THAT mp3 file. You can't just choose to stream, say, Spotify on DLNA. Again, it's not Airplay. It happens to use the same methodology, but it's not Apple-Easy.

And to make matters even MORE confusing during this process, ATT just sent me a letter begging me to come back to ATT Cellular service. Totally unlimited for $95 a month, including 10 gig of Hotspot, and a totally free iPhone 7 or 7 plus. And get this, they guarantee me $25 off my U-Verse service by ATT every month for LIFE if I bite on this deal. They must know I'm a big U-Verse fan.

Temptations....temptations.....temptations. I don't do a cellular contract now (I'm pay-as-you-go), but if I was ever TEMPTED........
 
The AptX is lossy, but at the quality level similar with mp3 - 320kbps. Very damn close of loseless.
AptX HD, that was released recently, improves on that allowing 24 bit/48kHz, lossy, but a "gentle" lossy.
http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-image/aptx-hd---lossless-or-lossy-442124

Sony has their proprietary codec LDAC that supposed to be very good too, but support is limited as of now to Sony devices.
More: http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-image/what-is-aptx-hd---a-new-boost-for-bluetooth-414111

Both AptXHD and LDAC will be supported natively in the next version of Android "O":
http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/0...ill-add-support-for-aptx-bluetooth-streaming/
Apple devices don't support anything on Bluetooth, except the basic, lower quality, SBC.

Something like Chromecast Audio is capable to stream loseless 24 bit/96kHz over WiFi (preferably using the 5GHz band).

Thanks. I appreciate the links. Yes, I know in my heart that I'd be loosing some quality, but a lot of my streaming is from 256kpbs or less Terrestrial and subsription stream services, so it's not huge. However, I do stream FLAC, and that would be an issue.

By the way, I was not up on Atp-X HD. Interesting.
 
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