Moth s45 Arrives

MikE

Color Me Gone
Moth s45 Arrives (ongoing listening impressions)

Moth s45: First SET - First Impressions
« on: February 24th, 2002, 2:07pm »

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February 22 11:35 a.m. Moth custom s45 (serial#53) delivered via AirborneX. The shipping crate is way cool with branded "Moth" emblems, and it required no tools to unpack!

X-Mass, two months removed: Another surprise; instead of the wrinkle powder coat finish, the new 16 gauge chassis was finished in a satin smooth gloss. Thinking I was going to miss the good looks of my VAC, the striking "Goth meets Captain Nemo" aesthetics of the Moth and the overall presentation were nothing but first-class and distanced my rememberances. The wait was worth it - on style points alone! The owner's manual is an enjoyable read, and hookup was quick-n-ez. Yet, my first sonic impressions were less than complimentary, puzzling actually. The damn center image (a very nice image at that) was hovering over the right Sonatina. Checking my connections, it dawned on me that in my haste I forgot to bias the Sovteks. Whipping out my handy-dandy volt metre, sure enough that one channel was turned way up! - oops. Biasing is a piece of cake with the external, rear top-plate pin jacks / bias knobs. 30 seconds later I was in the sweet spot enjoying a rock solid centre image.

The "stock" tube compliment I was listening to were the current-production Sovtek 2a3's, National NOS O-getter 6an4's and a NOS Chatham 5r4wga rectifier. Of the multiple combinations available to me, the stock quintet was by far the least impressive, and surprisingly the least stout in the power department (see update for later opinion).

Project / Amp Profile: Having contemplated "upgrading" from the EL34 triode-based 32wpc VAC to a directly-heated-triode 9-2wpc SET amp the last year, my main concern centered around the issue of power. Would the Moth, or most any 2a3/45 amp, have the balls to drive my 93db/flat 8ohm Silverline Sonatinas. Or a better question, to what degree and how would that presentation compare to the high standard of the tricked-out VAC. The performance, if not the personality, of the VAC was much improved with AC / acoustic treatment, silver cables, platform & footer agumentation and the pain-staking selection of vintage tubes. Of course, the Moth didn't take a back seat in the parts or tube department; in addition to the stock Electra-Print trannies, I selected (with Craig's approval) Exotica teflon coupling caps (2) Kiwame carbon film resistors (9) and CTC "Blowtorch" silver hookup wire; teflon insulated 99.99997 silver rods (equaling about 22awg for signal) and Wonder Wire (19awg) for ground. I must admit I chose the caps & resistors entirely on the research & recommendation of those with the experience I lacked on this subject. And based on their summation of the sonic signature (or lack of) of each part I made the best guesstimation, knowing that I could always switch them out later. One other deviation from the stock amp was the selection of a Borne 10k pot vs the stock 100k Alps. Craig felt the military-grade Borne's was slightly better. The chassis compartment would not allow the incorporation of the DACT ct2 attenuator w/o significant modification.

THE Power Issue: While not exactly pumping out the "chunkest" sound I've ever heard IMS, my primary concern, and the subject of much debate, was put to rest. The Moth+Sonatina combo swings, and very nicely. Even with my system fine-tuned to the VAC I was able to crank out smooth, non-compressed 93db peaks... WITH THE 2wpc 45 TUBE!!! And while my musical tastes do not include heavy orchestral, I eventually found myself selecting music as if the VAC were glowing in the dim light.

While I should have familiarized myself with the stock tube compliment, temptation got the better of me. Instead I delved straight into the mother-lode of NOS tubes, and jerked the Sovteks by their ugly head and dropped in the RCA bi-plates (1950s non-military, d-getter, gray plate version). Again I held my breath, as one of the RCAs were noisy in my buddies Cary 2a3 monos - IMS dead quiet. If anything, the Sovtek presented images from a more opaque background, while the RCAs fleshed-out a more organic sound as the entire presentation became less mechanical. Surprisingly there was no drop off in usable power or in the dimensionality of the ebb and flow.

Satisfied with the power tubes, I focused my attention on the rectifier: 1939 RCA 5r4gy in exchange for the Chatham - better still. Then I found bliss with the 1956 Amperex metal-base 5ar4. Similiar to the step up from the VAC>Moth or Sovtek>RCA 2a3; there was a "rightness" to the sound that swirled around the room, and once heard was impossible to ignore: More detailed, harmonically richer, with greater bass articulation and shifts in scale. The overall presentation representing an ease & naturalness that precisely echoed my replay priorities. Then almost as an after-thought I replaced the RCA bi-plates with National-Union mono-plate 45's (all 45s are single-plate) National O-getter 6an4>Sylvania D-getter 6an4, Amperex 5ar4>Sylvania jan-chs 5y3 (45s require either a 5y3/5r4) re-biased and let her rip. WoW! This tube kills, immediately I was struck by the coloration of the EL34 triode-based VAC, and the 2a3s I was familiar (however brief). It's like 3 veils had been removed. I was no longer sitting on the production side of the glass, but in the room with the musicians! With the 2a3, I'm listening to the tube, with the 45 I'm listening to the music. Once installed I completely forgot about evaluating the amp (or reminiscencing the VAC) instead I was focused on the music, paying particular attention to emotional nuance & micro-dynamics. There was just more snap, jump and aliveness to this tube, least with this one (1) pair of vintage National-Union 45's. The bass? Oh lordy, THIS 2wpc kicks ass!!!

Moth vs VAC driving Sonatinas: I'll be honest, I'm not sure if the quality of replay is better with the Moth. There are some trade-offs, the VAC surprisingly illuminates space better, and perhaps was more extended on top - IF memory serves. But overall the Moth is better, just imagine what it could sound like if she weren't shackled to a 93db speaker, or even with some fine-tuning to the present combo. So while the "newness" is still coloring my perspective, I'm definately enjoying the amp, my system, and MY MUSIC very much, and would absolutely make the same move again.

Summery: The architecture of the Moth with the big tubes right up front is very impressive perched on the 2" block of polished blk Chevelle granite. The s45 is the most transparent amp I've ever had the pleasure, and offers me another avenue to explore - SET - while maintaining the high standard I'm accustomed, and paves the way for the transition to horns / single-driver speakers should I choose to pursue.

Caveat: One last point I want to emphasis. This is my very first post on my first SET amp. This was after much research and a long-awaited delivery; my antiscipation / expectations were high. If I sound happy, I am - and relived too. But I'm far from any hard conclusions on the successful integration of the Moth IMS. That awaits further listening, and time, as my understanding is not complete but on-going. I would NOT recommend anyone rush out and order this - or similiar - amp hoping for the results I enjoy now. There are too many variables to consider, and re-consider if you hope to achieve lasting results, unless your idea of success is rotating components on a quarterly basis.

p.s. I'd like express my sincere appreciation to everyone who took the time to contribute to the success of this project - Thank You!

MikE
 
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First Update

Re: Moth s45: First SET - First Update
« Reply #10 on: March 2nd, 2002, 4:34pm »

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I would like to use this forum as a open, electronic notebook on my listening impressions of the Moth s45 amp. I hope you do not find this offense, tedious or whatever, I just find the way AU "updates" the latest replies an effective way to chronicle my progress with the amp. By posting my thoughts on-line I hope to give the readership an accurate and I hope more sincere account of the component in question, and it's integration IMS.

Well... now that I've lived with the amp for a little over a week I do have additional comments as to the on-going progression IMS. While originally gushing over the quality of the 45 output tube, I've since spent more time with the 2a3s, both the vintage RCA bi-plates and the current production Sovteks which are used to burn-in the amp each evening.

Update on National-Union 45: While still incredibly insightful on intimate material, I have found problems with the bass, and even mid-bass response IMS. Yes, the bass with the 45 is extremely engaging, and tuneful, but the lowest octaves (with my 93db speakers) are absent. The problem centers around my speakers, than the tube itself, though my understanding is on-going. I've begun to take some measures to account for this, for now I have concentrated my efforts on the 2a3s. I've got some globe 45s coming, which are known to be typically much smoother, sweeter than the more neutral st 45s. I can only imagine how THAT tube - in the positive qualities I've spoken - could be improved apon. The downside is that the globes are slightly less powerful.

Update on Sovtek 2a3: Much better after some air-time. More open, smoother, less mechanical, more like the 45. Its like they have closed the distance in the qualities the 45 excels. As many have reported, I too eventually found the Sovteks to be more powerful than the RCA bi-plates. Not only more powerful but not the same harmonically-lean toad stools I first encountered, if still not as rich as the RCAs. Many of the qualities that some users have spoken of regarding the Sovteks is sounding more familiar with my pair. They just needed some time (like all new power tubes) to settle in.

Update on RCA bi-plate 2a3: As this pair was not NOS (new) but used when I received them, there was no burn-in issue, therefore they sounded great in my buddies Klipsch / Cary mono-block system and with the Moth from day one. They are still perferred over the Sovteks, but the sonic differences are growing ever cloudy, the distance between them waning.

Update on rectifiers: I've rotated about half of my 13 rectifier tubes in the Moth, and have a few favorites. With the RCA bi-plate 2a3's the 1956 Amperex metal-base rules King: Full-bodied, detailed, smooth, ambient - no weak points that I can discern. The lovely "coke bottle" 1939 RCA 5r4gy is another favorite, I use this with either the 2a3 or the 45. Not quite as robust as the Amperex, but very good all-around IMS. The 1944 Sylvania jan-chs 5y3wgt is the best with the 45. Hyper-detailed, smooth, with the ability to project sounds from a grungeless, prestine background. The Amperex is not compatible with the 45. Why do the rectifiers affect sound? Every rectifier has a voltage drop, and even within the same type of rectifier (5r4 / 5y3 / 5u4) every brand has slight variations of values. The purity of the current is important to the sound, and will vary from brand to brand (RCA>Sylvania). The noise characteristics are often different and as the voltages rise then the bias changes on the output valves which in turn gives a change to the sonics of the amp. Different makers used different materials which contribute to the sound. The wall current runs through the rectifier, 'rectifying' it from a/c to d/c.

Umbilicals: Realizing my system was fine-tuned to the VAC I've begun experimenting with different cords / cables to find a more ideal or sympathetic pairing for my systems requirements while faithful to my replay preferences / agenda. The DIY 22 awg magnet wire experiment was a complete bust, maybe it had something to do with my construction but my results did not echo what others have reported. I'll have to consult with my DIY buddies. I did swap out the Shunyata Sidewinder on the Moth for the JPS Power which was the perferred amp pc with the VAC. I did this last night, my initial impressions were quite positive. I'll leave it in for a couple of weeks, and then do some sighted A/B testing. I've also got the Dennis Boyle Advantage I interconnect that won my cable shoot-out last Summer. These belong to another friend, who is smitten by a certain ribbon cable he perfers by a narrow margin. I've not dropped them in yet, as I wanted to spend more time with just this one (1) change.

Listening protocol: After the first couple of days of swapping various tubes, my listening protocol shifted and is now primarally what you would call non-critical: No A/B, no limiting myself to listening to 15 second passages for some nuance or greater understanding. Just spinning what was on my heavy rotation list with the VAC, and pretty much whatever I fancy. I haven't explored enough demanding music - heavy rock, hip-hop - to come up with any conclusions on how this music is served with the Moth IMS. But as the amp and the tubes open up it looks more and more promising.

Stabilization: I'm not sure to what extent the stabilizing (burn-in) of the amp has had on it's performance and the successful integration IMS, though I'm inclined to think it has had a direct effect. Even a friend commented last night (before the pc change) that the one issue he had with the top-end was no more, as cymbals "conceived" all the "life" the VAC ever did. One area he always felt the VAC was special: Top-end air. I had less of an issue with this performance parameter, but as I told him, my focus is primarally drawn to the mid-range reproduction that is downright spooky, and the propulsive / articulate bassline. He also reminded me that the 1.5m HGA silver interconnect I was using had been sitting dormant for about 9 months till I grabbed it and stuck it in the Moth, he commented that may have accounted to a small degree for some of problems - evident or not - the first couple of days of use.

Bottom-line: Well, thats about it for my week one wrap up. I'm happier today than when I cracked the lid on the amp crate. Is it due to the amp, the Sovteks, the HGA cable stabilizing or the introduction of the JPS pc? All four to some degree. Whatever it is, I know the sound recreated is pressurizing my room to a greater effect, if still not to the VAC standard. Not only is the presentation more refined, there is more of it, or more than I noted the first 5 days of use. The one real area I had concern - midbass fullness - has shown signs of improving the last couple of days. I realize this is still very early in the game but I'm not one to be easily impressed, I only hope I'm not TOO critical and lose sight of what this is all about: Enhanced replay performance coupled with greater listener involvement. So far, it's THERE.

p.s. Thanks for letting me share with you my listening impressions.

MikE
 
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Second Impressions

Re: Moth s45: First SET - Second Impressions
« Reply #11 on: March 7th, 2002, 4:54pm »

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Ok, its a bit early for my week two impressions of the Moth, but I have some news, so I'll share what I've discovered. This was up-n-down week with the amp. As I reported in my last post, I'm pretty happy with whats going on, and look forward to each new day, rather than regret or worry about any mis-givings. I'm far from any absolute conclusions but I'm building a good case for the Moth.

Then, amist tunes, and searching for tubes, I receive an Email from Ramon. Ramon also claims ownership of the s45, as well as 4-5 other wonderful amps, and as many wonderful speakers. We have shared many thoughts on the virtues of single-ended-triode, and the coupling of dynamics+SETs. Any how, he fired off an Email letting me know, he had visited Craig (Moth Audio) in Hollywood and that he had his amp fitted with the heavier-gauged chassis, and how pleased he was with the results. Then he offers this word of caution. Apon inspection, the amp was configured to "8ohm", rather than the "4ohm" he requested. He suggested I check mine. Sure enough, while set for 8ohm, one of the Xformer wires was mis-positioned. A simple fix, but Man I'm looking at all the coupling caps, and checking to see if they're directionally wired, or at least consistent, etc, etc...

To back-peddle a bit, I've had a problem with the left channel appearing to have more output than the right, but I've just been too buzy enjoying myself to investigate. But now, I'm curious, so I listen up close to the drivers - Yep - the output is NOT the same, AND I'm getting some nasty feedback (ok it wasn't THAT nasty) that just the other day was NOT there. This amp was dead-quiet, with no source, before. So I start firin' off Emails, and pullin' tubes, switchin' speaker cables, playin' mono recordings. Well, the tubes (likely suspect) check out, hmmmm... the weak signal doesn't shift with a cable swap. Then I pull the Advantage I interconnect for my standby HGA cable (both silver). AC grunge gone. The cable was introducing some ugly pollution in the line, my buddie blamed his cable cooker, and said it would go away with some use.

Hell with that. I may stick it on the NAD/WalkMan. One other thing I noticed when I switched the impedence taps, the bass was more propulsive but there was a trace of siblance / etch that was not there before. I figured a burn-in issue. Well, the Emails I got back were very instructive, but everything checked out, or everything availaible. Bob Crump felt it was attributed to the stabilizing of the impedence tap, that it should clear up in 5 days... we'll see. That was yesterday, and this afternoon. After fiddling around, but not removing the bottom plate to re-inspect the wiring, I cracked open my lastest box of tubes: A Triad globe 45, and a NOS Silvertone Super st 45 thats matches another I just won. Now I could sample the taste of globe 45s. So I stick in my Arcturus "blue glass" 45 and the Triad 45, re-biased to 35mu. Kick back , and give it a whirl. Ah... nice, round, pleasant, but nothing special. I read a post about fixed bias amp not responding very well to the x245/345 globe 45s, something about them liking the grid resistence below 150k (just got an Email from Craig on this subject. He said I could change the grid resistor to 150k, no problem).

Then I pop in the National-Union st 45... Wow (again) after listening to the 2a3s most of the week, this tube kills. I decide to crank some jams so I slid in "Mixed Up" by The Cure [Elektra e2 60978]. God, this sucker is bad! Sure I was peggin' the volume control at 3 o'clock but this is so full, rich, throbbing, angelically-smooth. The music just breathing, ebbing, flowing in the room. The 45 st (least this one version) is awesome. I wish I had a bit more head-room, and this kind of mid-bass fullness on ALL my selections. This was one of those memorable Musical / Audio moments, the best I've had in some time. Like maybe the first time I heard tubes. I couldn't believe the ease, naturalness, the micro-dynamics of the bass, the organic quality, IMR. This 45 tube does bass SO WELL, you almost listen just for it. It was special for many reasons, as I found myself absorbed in the music, but at the same time I could witness and acknowledge the technology. Like visiting two seperate, but connected world - art / science - simultaneously. Whew...

Moth vs VAC: Let me begin by saying, I enjoy my system MORE with the Moth than I did with the VAC. Even with the compatibility issues of the 2wpc Moth+93db Sonatinas I'm willing to live with the hickups while savoring what the Moth does so right. Perspective: The perspective with the Moth is more recessed, and the images more discrete, than the larger-gestured VAC. One is not better than the other, this is more an issue of preference. Detail / transparency / naturalness: The Moth wins big-time. There is just more of a rightness that "appears" to convey a more accurate representation. Is it more accurate? I don't know, but it gives a better impression of live instruments in the room - timbrally. Transient speed / micro-dynamics: Again the Moth wins hands down. PRAT is much better, the music propells itself, like actual music-making. The rhythm section is much more connected to the souce AND the listener. Space / imaging: The VAC was very special in this regard. I'm still not sure how the Moth measures up. Obviously there is no clear-cut winner. I find the soundstage to extend further from the edge of the speakers with the Moth, and somewhat more dis-embodied from the enclosures in the near-field. But I'm inclined to say the VAC had more of a 3-D effect, where images have more freedom in the room, in the global sense. Sometimes images would appear from behind the listener, then move centre stage, then vacate. I'll have to listen for which outlines venues better, but I would think the VAC is superior in this effect.

MikE
 
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One Month Udate

Re: Moth s45: First SET - One Month Update
« Reply #12 on: March 29th, 2002, 11:36pm »

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While I have reconized and commented on the importance of the break-in phenomeon, the experience with the Moth only reinforces those beliefs. Over the last couple of weeks I've noticed three changes over the performance of the virgin amp: 1>. The power reserve has increased. Where I was reaching peak volume using 3/4 of the dial with the 45 output tubes, now I'm at one o'clock. This is partially due to the more robust signature from the 45s that was previously more anemic. 2>. Images have increased in both size and perspective. Whereas images were much smaller in relation to the VAC and more recessed in the sound field, now they are more developed and forward, with wrap-a-round effect: Like swimming in sound or being immersed in an ambient dream. 3>. The concerns I had with leaness IMS are pretty much gone. Even with the more analytical 45s I'm satisfied with the realistic sense of body from instruments. The bass from either 2a3 or 45, though having different characteristics, has remained very impressive. The 45 kills the reknowned bass performance from the Amperex double-d-getter EL34's, least IMS with the VAC!

System changes: While I have begun to investigate fine-tuning, and even considering trying a tube preamp, the system has not changed markedly from day one. I've only swapped the amp pc and continue to roll different tubes. But the results I enjoy today have also been observed with the original tube compliement, so eliminate the tubes as the principal effecting change. I would conclude the changes I've witnessed have to do with the amp stabilizing: The resistors, transformers, caps (power and signal) and solid-silver hookup wire. I'll have to call Electra-Print and ask them their opinion on break-in time for the trannies. Update: I did and they laughed at me... "break-in?".

Output tubes: I've had quite a go round on these. My conclusions at this point. The RCA bi-plate 2a3's are definately more romantic, smoother, more powerful than the 45s. Though they lack the propulsive bass and the more natural, open handling of harmonic information. The 45s are spooky in the way they dis-associate themselves from the enclosures (speakers). That openess I was referring to. Sounds seem to hang more in space, rather than remain stuck in a box. I find that the lower output of the 45s (I'm speaking of the "ST", not the "Globe" 45) is offset by the incrediably engaging bass and swinging micro-dynamics. That the need for volume is reduced by the more lively sound. This is one of the main attractions of SETs: Enhanced dynamics even with lower volume coupled with greater listening ease which affords longer, more pleasureable sessions. This ease is due to lower output levels and the angelic presentation that is the hallmark of SETs. Imagine prestine smoothness and lighting transients - simultaneously!

Music+Output tubes: By the nature of the observations I've witnessed, the 2a3 is perferred when the source needs more drive, and when the recording is poor. The 45 is much perfered when the source is not lacking drive or overly lean, harsh. Which is most of the time. You see, the 45 is not reserved for only "perfect recordings". The 45 in effect only renders what was layed down, the 2a3 editorializes a bit. Remember these conclusions are based on my limited time with the amp, and the tubes available (which I have listed in earlier posts). Regarding the 1942 Silvertone Super st 45's, they came very highly regarded, and now I know why. The Silvertone is smoother, more refined, and freer sounding - more dimensional - than the National-Union st 45's. Not a night-n-day difference, but not one you had to listen for either. IMS, with my sensibilities an obvious, and important improvement.

Other tube notes: I picked up a 1961 NOS Mullard "fat base" 5ar4 rectifier to compliement my 1956 Amperex "metal base" 5ar4 for use with the 2a3s. I've always enjoyed elements of the Mullard tubes, and that remains true here. The Mullard is just slightly fuller in tone than the Amperex, though I feel the Amperex is more fleet of foot. I've also re-examined the lovely RCA "Coke bottle" 5r4 rectifier for use with the 45s. I've got three; 1939, 1952, 1959. The earliest is the only one to see action yet, and so far the 1939 RCA is getting more air time than the 1944 Sylvania jan-chs 5y3. As far as the 6an4 input tubes, I've stuck with the 50's Sylvania d-getter's.

Overall impressions: On the Moth, and comparisions with the VAC pp amp. I continue to be more impressed with the Moth every day. Actually impressed is the wrong word, enchanted is more descriptive of my feelings. The quality of my listening sessions has increased markedly, which is one of the reasons for the interval between this post and my last. I'm becoming increasing LESS analytic-oriented with my listening habits and just enjoying the music MORE! Can any greater compliment be made for a piece of consumer electronics? Rather than refer to daily notes (which there are none, as I'm usely this thread as the only documentation for my observations) I simply assembled this post on the fly based on my overall subjective, sighted impressions.

MikE
 
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(non) Effect of Umbilicals

Moth s45: First SET - (non)Effect of Umbilicals
« Reply #14 on: April 8th, 2002, 7:39pm »

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The only changes I've made to the Moth-enduced system has involved my extensive collection of - power / rectifier / input - tubes and two samplings of umbilicals. One interconnect and one pc. The first was the re-introducing of my favorite JPS Power pc IMS for my standard Shunyata Sidewinder. The cord swap was limited to the amp alone. I found the JPS to slightly better the Sidewinder but not to the same degree it held over the VAC. For the last 5 weeks the JPS has taken residence IMS. The other change was to welcome back the winner of my cable shoot-out last Summer; Dennis Boyle Advantage I. I tried it for a week but pulled it when I ran into some unrelated noise problems and never bothered to exchange it for my standard HGA SuperSilver.

A couple of hours ago I asked my buddie who loaned me both cables (actually the 1.5m HGA is his too) what he wanted to do with the JPS (sell it?). Of course, he had NOT sold it because he knew I liked it and would offer it to me first. I told him that I couldn't really justify the cost ($280) vs what I felt the Sidewinder possessed. This was more based on memory than any hard listening, so I bid him so long till Friday when he is coming over and we are going to the KoKo Taylor concert. He would also be taking the JPS to try out on his new PS Audio Ultimate outlet vs the BMI Whale or one of his new David Elrod III ribbon pcs. This guys has alot of cords!

So after I finished up an Email, I proceded to spin some familiar tunes seeing action, and then pulled the JPS and poped in the Sidewinder. OK, the image was slightly smaller, the vocals discretely rougher and at the same time the presentation was slightly more forward and offered a more pronounced treble vibrancy (not so sublte). Frankly I was hooked on the JPS powered system, and listening to the Sidewinder powered Moth I was equally entralled. It wasn't so much better or worse, just different. IOW, I could happily live with either, which is good because I'm not buying the JPS! This is even more comforting as it delivers my wish for the Moth driven system to be LESS dependant on associated umbilicals; cable or cord. Obviously this is just the first step in testing this objective but so far so good.

MikE
 
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Three Month Update

Moth s45: First SET - Three Month Update
« Reply #17 on: May 17th, 2002, 10:45pm »

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It's been 6 weeks since my last report. Now approaching three months with the amp, this is a good time to address some issues I may have waffled on in previous posts. If unclear, I LOVE THIS AMP! This speaks more of what the Moth does right than a lacking on the part of my old amp. With the prior grouping there was just a nagging feeling that something just wasn't "right" that I attributed to the VAC and now with just this one change, their is a feeling of "rightness" with it. IMS/room, with my music (coupled with my replay preferences), with this amp mated to my Sonatinas I could easily live with THIS setup for awhile, it satisfies - Me!

The other issue I've tossed around is one of 2a3 or 45? IMS the 2a3 is a better match (either Sovtek or RCA bi-plate) but with my preferences the 45 wins almost everytime. Sure I can listen to the 2a3s but I always miss the 45s and get that same (to a lesser degree) nagging feeling with the 2a3s; that I'm watching the system. With the 45s (any 45) the music flows more freely, distancing itself from the technology. I have 4 pairs of ST 45's and some odd-ball single Globe 45's. One more thing about the power issue (2a3 vs 45). With the 45 I perceive greater output due to it's more dynamic and naturally detailed signature. If not louder than certainly more "alive" and satisfying. Update: Wife and kids gone I was able to crank out 93db peaks from the bastard Globes.

This brings me to another issue; "ST vs Globe". I'm just introducing myself to the Globes, and while on paper appear even more ill-tempered for my system than the ST 45's they put out enough volume to satisfy IMR. My initial impression of the Globes IMS is that of a "nervous electricity". Much like the transition from the traditional, warm 2a3 to the more stark, cool 45, the Globe 45 is even more so, based on the varieties / condition of Globes available. Update: Damn, I'm really falling for these Globes, and these aren't even a decent pair. There is just more "THERE" there.

The Moth s45, especially with the 45 tube has caused me to reconsider exactly what I want from replay, that things like slam, shifts in barometric pressure and sound levels or "special effects" matter less and those areas I was REALLY interested in became even more important: Nuance, grace, ease, naturalness, presense, ambience... an ebb-n-flow.

The tube complement I'm currently using are Silvertone Super ST 45's, a Bendix 6106 rectifier and the preferred D-getter Sylvannia 6an4's. The only other changes were replacing the Silverline Audio (copper) cables on the top-post for DIY 24awg (5n) 99.999% pure solid silver wire with 20awg teflon bared-wired to the binding posts. This was MUCH preferred. Many of the qualities I discovered with SET were embellished further with the solid-core silver wire. The skinny wire seemed to "free up" the system, making it more open-sounding, more detailed, and yet even more relaxed.

Other System Developments: I briefly sampled an Elrod III ribbon pc and have been listening to three different ribbon interconnects the last 4 weeks. The ribbon cables, 45s, silver speaker "cables" all compliment one another and share similiar traits. The Bendix tube is a bit more "technicolor" than the other components introduced, more like the Globes in effect IMS than the other devices; like drawing back a sheer curtain it reveals a new perspective. I've got more Globes and a Majestic ST 5u4 rectifier coming. I'll be exploring alternatives for the Silverline cables on the bottom-post, either a 12awg CC copper or another run of the 24awg silver. My next major upgrade will be updating my dac, if and when.

MikE
 
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Tubes and Umbilicals: Relative merit

Tubes and Umbilicals: Relative merit
« Reply #23 on: June 8th, 2002, 1:27pm »

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Just want to jot down some quick notes on the latest developments. Let's see I returned all of my buddies interconnects; "Nordost" Quattro Fil / Dennis Boyle Advantage I / HGA SuperSilver / ArtSound silk&cotton. I believe all but the "Nordost" were silver and the ArtSound & "Nordost" ribbon cables. He needed to send one of the cables back to the designer so I decided to just return everything and delve into my personal stash. In their place I revisited my Silverline Audio (copper) interconnects. While I found the knock-off Nordost to be somewhat leanish they were overall the "BEST interconnects" I've used IMS. The presentation was noticeably louder, cleaner and more expansive and detatched from the boxes they appreared. The switch wasn't too disappointing, though they were / are (still) missed. One issue I want to emphasis, the ONLY reason I have experimented as I have with cables & cords (except for the 24awg silver wire) is due to buddie generosity and wish that I provide feedback on their signature and relative merit.

The other change (or evolution) involves my continued exploration of rectifiers which I believe at this moment totals (19). In my last post I was just getting accustomed to the much heralded Bendix 6106 5y3 - excellant tube. Spending the last month with it I had pretty much decided when I received a Majestic ST 5u4 and two RCA 5u4gyb's. In place of an A/B I've just been listening to the Majestic this past week. Then while researching yet another rectifier (GE 5r4gya) I noticed how similiar the internal construction was between my RCA 5u4 and it's GE cousin, so I dropped it in. WoW! If not as "big sounding" as the Bendix (or Nordost cable) it retains it's scapel-like precision. My initial impression would suggest thats about the extent of their similiarities. The RCA signature has a full, robust tone coupled with harmonic richness. Bass weight is noticeably improved. My system is frankly lacking in the bass and fullness department so that change was welcomed. I wouldn't say this one move has rendered my system "slam happy" but the space is more energized in that respect with bass notes rumbling about the room. UPDATE: Having listened a bit more to the RCA 5u4, I found one area of it's performance that was disappointing - PRAT. Listening to The Cure [Mixed Up] while pleased with the fuller instrument intonation and bass weight I was not happy with the speed of the arrangements. If unfamiliar, this LP has mostly uptempo tracks that are sure to get your foot moving with their catchy hooks. With the RCA 5u4 in place I found myself less inclined to become involved. On slower tempo material I found this tube to best address the weakness' of my current system, I suppose I'll followup on those leads for that "perfect rectifier".

The main point of this post was not just to mention those two minor changes but comment on their effect and their relation to one another. A common theme throughout this thread has been my hope that cabling would become less critical with the addition of the SET amp. With two of the cable changes I have observed a worthy improvement: One was the upgrading to the 24awg silver speaker "cable", and the other was the Nordost ribbon cable with the Elrod ribbon power cord another honorable mention. The only permanent adoption was the 24awg wire. Yet, unfortunately I must acknowledge the other two. Aside from cabling, the other change concerns tubes, both rectifiers and the Globe 45's I've been enjoying the last month. Like the "ST" 45's, the "Globe" 45's are special. They ALONE DELIVER on the PROMISE of SET topology. Even with the issue of the Globes 1.8wpc (with my 93db Sonatinas) their virtues can not be dismissed. Everyone who has heard my system has commented on the purity of tone they instill. So the Globes have held court and are the preferred power tube IMS with the ST 45s a close second and everything else not even close. With this latest rectifier switch I'm happier than ever (in some respects) as it not only builds on the strenght of the system but address the weakness' of the 45 (see Update above).

Finally, I'd like to mention a phenomenon I observed when comparing the two distinct product types, tubes and umbilicals. I was struck how a select variety of the two product types contribute similiar qualities though if I had to choose one I'd focus my funds on tubes. Why? Foremost the 45 tube (either ST or Globe) is ESSENTIAL to my enjoyment, the cables / cords are not. Second, the cost. Even a very decent pair of vintage Globe 45s would be cheaper than many cable upgrades. The rectifiers are much cheaper (<$15). Bang-for-buck it's a no-brainer decision.

MikE
 
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New Listening Room!

New Listening Room!
« Reply #24 on: July 12th, 2002, 7:31am »

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We moved last month. The listening room is larger; 27x18x9, though I tried to maintain a similiar layout as with my prior setup. The speakers are basically diagonally positioned in one corner on a long wall. With the larger space they are spread further from the other (9 feet) and the listener position is now about 2 further back (8 feet). I was concerned that the larger room combined with the listener position would negatively impact my limited output resources but no, I perceive no less available draw.

The other significant change, resulting from the move, was removing the granite speaker platforms (instead coupling the speakers with the stock brass spikes). My reason was that I needed to position the speakers first, then re-introduce the platforms. Oddly or unusual for me, I spent far less time positioning the speakers than I ever have (45 minutes) and then as fate, dumb luck or persistence would have it I found I REALLY liked the changes resulting from the speakers sans the polished stones. I was well aware of both the pros and cons of the platforms in my old system / room, but overall enjoyed them. As for one there was no other way (I found) to raise the stage presentation than to simply elevate the speakers, in this case 4". Naturally bass performance suffered but I could adjust that with other devices, like AC / acoustic treatment products, cables, cords and tubes.

If you've followed my saga with the SET amp you'll note those were areas in which I initially had issues; bass performance and lack of harmonic richness. The introduction of the RCA 5u4gyb rectifier and removing the speaker platforms significantly affected that. As obvious an impact did the rectifier make the platform removal made a MUCH bolder statement. With these two changes the frequency balance has shifted downward, with more of a centered presentation. Of course, the overall stage presentation has shifted downward as well, but considering the other positive effects does not seem so important. Instead of looking up, I'm look straight ahead or slightly downward.

The one other change from the old system is that I have not installed the silver Acme Audio "cryogenic" wall duplex. I'm still using the stock unit, which I haven't even peeked at. I wanted to first listen to the system before I re-introduced the "cryo" outlet. When I originally installed the Acme unit I had made a few other changes simultaneously and was unable to account for just the outlet. I hope to do that now. It'll be interesting to see if the upper frequencies will be more articulated and with greater detail with the Acme outlet.

On a related note, a friend is dropping off his recently upgraded Melos SHA-Gold>Maestro reference tubed preamp for me to burn-in / evaluate IMS. I've not had much experience with tubed preamps IMS, and as every active system I've heard has left me cold I prefer passive. So this should be an excellant learning experience with a quality preamp. I should have it for a couple of weeks and will report the results in my next update. He also dropping off a couple of different interconnects and input tubes for the Melos. Other than that everything is status quo. Which means excellant. I'm really enjoying the "new presentation" and the 45 globes. Oh yeah, speaking of which I did manage to score one (1) Cunningham cx345 globe, NIB (new in box) - for cheap ($22)! I'm actively looking for another to pair it up with.

MikE
 
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Recent discovery in amp assembly

As addressed in a post on the General Forum, I was informed of a "possible wiring problem" with my amp (by the wire supplier) and after bringing this to the attention of the amp builder was surprized by the treatment received. After seeking council from my peers I addressed the manufacturer of what I thought of his reaction to my query. He had a few Email exchanges thereafter that frankly brought up more questions than answers.

Basically by his own admission, the amp was "wired correctly", that he "instructed his technicians" to wire it "as received". That it was not an oversight but intentional. Unfortunately, this was not what I instructed and was never discussed before now. In closing his last Email on the subject he states, "The attention to detail was the same high quality all our customers have come to expect and receive." All I have to say is that, luckily his attention to detail and customer service has not deminished the enjoyment the product continues to provide.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/230243.html

MikE
 
Nine Month Update

There really isn't much to say, other than to express my continued enjoyment with the component. My satisfaction is stronger today than my last update in July. I'm extremely happy with both the amp (wiring issues aside) and how it works with my system. In the last four months I've not made one system change, though I have tried different cables, cords and resonance devices that were given to me to evaluate. Oh, I did move the TubeTraps like 12" - does that count?

Umbilicals: My buddie dropped off two SOTA power cords, the David Elrod MK III Signature and the Virtual Dynamics Nite. Both were brand new and have been in the system for three weeks. I have not pulled either one for my stock cords. I can't say I'm enjoying the system more with them but they haven't decreased my enjoyment either! I'll have to post followup comments when I return to my stock cords. Tim sent me an DIY silver interconnect he made and I was using it for about three weeks when I yanked it for my reference Silverline (copper) cables. Surprizingly, the silver cable is smoother. The Silverline has a lower noise-floor, meaning it’s more detailed. But that comes at a cost, it’s a bit “hotter” as well. Silibance was a bit of a problem. The Silverlines placed images more distinctly in space, and hall reverbant information was more apparent. Pace and timing seemed more realistic as well. This was with Johnny Cash, the Cunningham globe 45s, and the hi-end pcs. The perspetive was more forward with the Silverlines. I'm not sure which I prefer. Tim's cable is abit more forgiving/musical while the Silverline poccess' more “audiophile values”.

Odd-n-Ends: I did toy around with some Shun Moon pucks on my speakers, amp and PLC but there were no reliable (repeatable) differences I could hear. Since my last update I did receive my M.P.S outboard power supply back from service. That along with getting the O.E.M. power cord out of the loop made a noticable difference. In fact, with the O.E.M. pc and smaller ps the system wasn't nearly as listenable. A real improvement.

2a3s revisited: Because of the exchanges with Sasaki I decided to listen to my RCA 2a3 bi-plates (again) in place of my reference Cunningham cx345's. At first, it's a nice switch as they are more powerful and do present a very different sound. It is a most enjoyable presentation. But when I switched back to either 45 - globe or ST - the weakness of the 2a3 is laid bare. It's more of a opaque, colored tube than the natural, open-sounding 45s.

Rectifiers: I've gotten a few more in. A Sylvania (bottom getter) 5u4g and GE 5r4gya, the later seeing the most playtime in the last 6 weeks. It may not be the most detailed or extended of the bunch but it's the best overall for my system. It has a very robust signature, is very smooth, while slightly truncated in the extremes. I'm re-visiting the Sylvania 5v4G "single-plate", which isn't actually a single-plate but two in-line plates. It's more detailed and extended on top but not as rich sounding and ever so slightly ecthed - still early with my obsevations on this particular tube.

Different Systems: I listened to the Moth in three different systems. At the "CainFest" (w/a few different systems), and with Tom's and Ron's systems. It was agreed by everyone it sounded excellant in all three. In fact, many said the Moth was the best amp they've heard, and the best their system has ever sounded! Tom liked the RCA 2a3's best, whereas Ron was blown away by the National-Union ST 45's. All of the systems had either a single-driver, coaxial or were horn-loaded.

MikE
 
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Two Year Update

As stated in my last post [nine month update] my satisfaction is stronger today than my initial satisfaction. At no moment have I questioned the purchase or sought a replacement in the last two years. Instead I've looked into finding a more suitable speaker to pair it with, though not too agressively. I'm pretty happy with my Sonatinas as well.

In the last 15 months I performed one additional mod to the amp, and continued to roll rectifiers. My reference is a late 50's Mullard gz32 [thanks Tim]. I found the NOS driver tubes to have little/no variance among the 12 or so I have, and the EML solid plate 45's have remained the preferred OPT for the last 14 months. I also had the hookup wire reversed, though I didn't detect any audible effect.

The one mod I did was to by-pass the LCR 100uf+100uf / 500v electrolytic with vintage .015uf / 600v polypropylene. This I only did last week and is still in the process of stabilizing. At this point it has made a positive improvement, pushing the amp in more of a "traditional SET" direction; smoother, more life-like timbre.

MikE
 
Mike

So did that Mullard make a difference sonically ? Just curious.

Pics really do no justice on how nice your moth looks.

Grumpy
 
Yes

The Mullard is my new reference. I've got too many rectifiers to count and was very happy with the early Raytheon 5u4gb. In fact, I looked high and low to find a couple extra. Then Tim sent me the Mullard, which I thought of as more a collectable. Only to be pleasantly surprized with this particular Mullard. In my circuit the Mullard is very neutral, much like the 45 tube without adding any unpleasant electronic artifacts. These rectifiers can be circuit dependant but I'm not the first to find success with the gz32. Recommended. Glad you liked the amp. MikE
 
Just a note...I too, purchased a NOS '50s NIB Mullard GZ30 (5Z4G) rectifier for my BEZ 6SN7 preamp ($21.50 on eBay). I'm anxious to get this (from Sweden) and replace the stock Russian 5Z4G that came with my preamp.

It's my very first Mullard, so I'm excited!;)
 
Mullard makes very good rectifiers-it may be what they do best.
Thier 5AR4s are by far the best out there. Rather pricey, but worth it.
Jack
 
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