$$$ MSRP balance in your Hi-Fi setup

I daresay that if you're using 2-way bookshelf-sized speakers, the point of diminishing returns comes in soon enough that it makes sense to start upgrading other things if you're sticking with that type of speaker. I'm not calling it one way or the other for your setup of equipment I have not heard, MWalt, just in general.
 
I daresay that if you're using 2-way bookshelf-sized speakers, the point of diminishing returns comes in soon enough that it makes sense to start upgrading other things if you're sticking with that type of speaker. I'm not calling it one way or the other for your setup of equipment I have not heard, MWalt, just in general.

You are right, I believe. I have a small listening room, so standmounts are pretty much it. I do have 2 subwoofers I failed to add in, so that would change my ratio somewhat higher for speakers. I should try this formula with system #2 and see how I fare.
 
Moderator's Note:

I'm not actually going to comment specifically on anything that's been said so far. But it seems like a good place to remind people that although TOL is a place where we can discuss anything, what makes it unique here within AK is that we keep the discussion mutually respectful with an attitude of curiosity and contribution. There's a low threshold for proselytizing.

I think we're OK here at this point and look forward to it continuing that way. Just wanted to say this.

Carry on, gentlemen.

:music:
 
I think we beat ye old horse once again. :D

But I love discussing and debating Hi-Fi stuff and I like the data, not just the wank. So I'd love to see more number crunching.

You might be surprised where your decades of hardware collecting/exchanging have brought you. I personally will definitely scout for better speakers as my next upgrade. OFC they need to suite my subjective preferences in their character, but they must be a level up on the performance ladder from my Tannoy DC1000s.
 
I'm no follower of hifi theory, so I'm sure I'm just missing something...but - Where is this 60/25/10/5 ratio documented as the Golden Ratio for hifi?
 
The problem I have now is that I can't afford a meaningful speaker upgrade.

When I bought my first expensive (for me) speakers, it was a $1500 pair of B&W 683's about 5 years ago. At the time, I had a $700 CD player and $600 integrated (A Rotel RCD-1070 and RA-1060 respectively) and one set of decent interconnects.

Over the intervening years, I upgraded everything between the speakers until the were most definitely the bottle neck. And I didn't think I would ever be able to upgrade them; figuring I'd have to be willing to budget $3k before I even started kicking proverbial tires.

But lucky for me, an AK member withing driving distance offered up a set of Vienna Acoustics (my current speakers) for less than I was able to sell the B&Ws for.

So I have considerably better speakers and got to pocket money in the process. Still not sure I'll ever prioritize the money to start speaker shopping in earnest.

Guess I'll just have to settle for contentment.

:yes:
 
Its an old theory, as old as Hi-Fi. Been in magazines and books prior to the internet. Here is a nice book RamblinE proposed on the topic http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Guide-High-End-Audio/dp/0964084961/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1.

:thmbsp:

Thanks for the reply, but I would've hoped to see something specific in a document online. I don't have any idea about the credibility of that book.

My thinking is, the ratio wouldn't hold up at all levels of budget. If we assume it's true, my amp that sold for $4,000 ten years ago matches up with speakers that cost $24,000 ten years ago. I have a hard time believing that's what Audio Research had in mind, but maybe I can see pairing a $400 amp with $2,400 speakers.
 
The Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands go as low as 30Hz, very nice. :yes: They are a step up from the B&W definitely.

I am a fan of VA though I haven't had the pleasure to audition a pair. Hopefully one day I will. To me they look more like instruments than consumer electronics. Gorgeous.

rsz_213-er-vienna-mozart-3.jpg
rsz_213-er-vienna-mozart-2(1).jpg
rsz_213-er-vienna-mozart-1.jpg


Type: 2.5-way bass-reflex tower
Drivers: 1.1" tweeter, 5" X3P mid/bass, 5" XPP Spider-Cone mid/woofer
Frequency response: 30Hz to 22kHz
Sensitivity: 90dB
Nominal impedance: 4 ohms
Dimensions: 38.25" x 8.1" x 13" (including supplied base)
Weight: 116 lbs./pair
Price: $3500
 
Amp- Kenwood Basic M2= $600.00 1982 7%
Preamp- Kenwood Basic C1= $225 1982 2.6%
Tuner- Kenwood Basic T2= $200 1985 2.4%
CDP- Harman Kardon HD990= $600 2010 7%
Cassette Deck- Kenwood KX-3510= $300 1990 3.5%
Speakers- Klipsch KG'4's= $672 1990 8%
Speakers- Klipsch RF-7's= $4400 2001 52%
Speakers- KLH AV3000's= $400 1990 4.7%
Line Conditioner- Panamax Max5100= $299 2003 3.5%
Cables- New Monster Cable $30 Monster Cable M850i and 950i IC's= $600 2004 7.4%
Niles Speaker Selector HDL-4= $149 2001 1.7%

Total MSRP= $8475
 
Wow, that was a lot of googleing. And I still couldn't find msrp for the TX-4500. Anyone have any info on that? All I know is that it sold starting in 1976. Also, does anyone know the original msrp for Quad 57's? They aren't in my main system now, but sometimes sneak in.

I seem to be not at all in the "golden" ratio. Oh well. That was fun though, and kinda eye opening.

In today's prices...

Speakers: Phase Tech 7T -........$956.59
AR M2 ..................$533.66
Amp: Sansui AU-7500..............$1,588.82
Pre/receiver: Onkyo tx-4500..... ?????
Sources: Rotel RCD-970BX.......$907.00
Techics SL-B3 ..........$539.45

Total.................................$4525.52


TX-4500 $460 new in 76/77
 
@moejr

Speakers- Klipsch RF-7's= $4400 2001 68.26%
CDP- Harman Kardon HD990= $600 2010 9.3%
Amp- Kenwood Basic M2= $600.00 1982 + Preamp- Kenwood Basic C1= $225 1982 12.8%
Cables- New Monster Cable $30 Monster Cable M850i and 950i IC's= $600 2004 9.78%

Not bad :thmbsp:


RF7_life6_large.jpg


SPECIFICATIONS
BUILT FROM: 2009
CROSSOVER FREQUENCY: 2200Hz
DIMENSIONS: Height: 45" (115cm) (br) Width: 11.6" (29.7cm) (br) Depth:16" (41cm)
ENCLOSURE MATERIAL: MDF
ENCLOSURE TYPE: Bass reflex via dual rear-firing ports
FINISHES: Available in dark cherry (non-grain raising) and black wood veneer
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 32Hz-20kHz (+-)3dB
HIGH FREQUENCY HORN: 8" square 90(o)x60(o) Tractrix(r) Horn
INPUT CONNECTIONS: 2 sets of binding post speaker terminals
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms
POWER HANDLING: 250 w max continuous (1000 w peak)
SENSITIVITY: 102dB @ 2.83 volts/1 meter

TWEETER: K-67-DV 1.75" (4.45cm) Titanium dome compression driver
WEIGHT: 90 lbs. (40.8kg) ea
WOOFER: Two K-1089-AV 10" (25.4cm) Cerametallic(r) cone / cast aluminum frame
 
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@moejr

Speakers- Klipsch RF-7's= $4400 2001 68.26%
CDP- Harman Kardon HD990= $600 2010 9.3%
Amp- Kenwood Basic M2= $600.00 1982 + Preamp- Kenwood Basic C1= $225 1982 12.8%
Cables- New Monster Cable $30 Monster Cable M850i and 950i IC's= $600 2004 9.78%

Not bad :thmbsp:

How come you left out the other stuff? Just curious
 
How come you left out the other stuff? Just curious

The ratio is calculated for

1x Speaker set
1x Source
1x Amplification (integrated or pre/power)
All cables you paid for to connect the equipment mentioned above.

You can calculate with different components to see how they match.
 
@moejr

RF7_life6_large.jpg


SPECIFICATIONS
BUILT FROM: 2009
CROSSOVER FREQUENCY: 2200Hz
DIMENSIONS: Height: 45" (115cm) (br) Width: 11.6" (29.7cm) (br) Depth:16" (41cm)
ENCLOSURE MATERIAL: MDF
ENCLOSURE TYPE: Bass reflex via dual rear-firing ports
FINISHES: Available in dark cherry (non-grain raising) and black wood veneer
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 32Hz-20kHz (+-)3dB
HIGH FREQUENCY HORN: 8" square 90(o)x60(o) Tractrix(r) Horn
INPUT CONNECTIONS: 2 sets of binding post speaker terminals
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms
POWER HANDLING: 250 w max continuous (1000 w peak)
SENSITIVITY: 102dB @ 2.83 volts/1 meter

TWEETER: K-67-DV 1.75" (4.45cm) Titanium dome compression driver
WEIGHT: 90 lbs. (40.8kg) ea
WOOFER: Two K-1089-AV 10" (25.4cm) Cerametallic(r) cone / cast aluminum frame

kenwoodbasicm2mk21.jpg


Kenwood Basic M2 Specifications

Power output: 220 watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms
Total harmonic distortion: 0.004%
Damping factor: more than 1000

Frequency response: 1Hz to 200kHz
Signal to noise ratio: 120dB

Speaker impedance: 4 to 16 ohms
Dimensions: 440 x 158 x 373mm
Weight: 15.5kg


Bloody hell man... now that is an awesome system. :ntwrthy:
 
kenwoodbasicm2mk21.jpg


Kenwood Basic M2 Specifications

Power output: 220 watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms
Total harmonic distortion: 0.004%
Damping factor: more than 1000

Frequency response: 1Hz to 200kHz
Signal to noise ratio: 120dB

Speaker impedance: 4 to 16 ohms
Dimensions: 440 x 158 x 373mm
Weight: 15.5kg


Bloody hell man... now that is an awesome system. :ntwrthy:

Thanks. I like it alot and it sounds like heaven to me.

The Harman Kardon CDP deserves some recognition for that lovely sound. <.0006% THD Dynamic Range >120db S/N Ratio 116db Channel Seperation >115db and a 24hz/384khz DAC Sampling Frequency 32-96 khz
 
Thanks. I like it alot and it sounds like heaven to me.

The Harman Kardon CDP deserves some recognition for that lovely sound. <.0006% THD Dynamic Range >120db S/N Ratio 116db Channel Seperation >115db and a 24hz/384khz DAC Sampling Frequency 32-96 khz

Absolutely, it is excellent source. punches way above its weight IMO.
 
It seems there is an overall trend of AKers to have, dare I say it, under-performing speakers in their setups.

Got it. I'll swap out the SuperZeroes on my desk for a pair of Duntech Sovereigns right away. Now where is that $15,000 I had stuffed in my jeans pocket last week?

Cheers,

Otto
 
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