Music streamer questions

[Emotiva!]

Can anyone give me some insight as to what would be a good system to purchase between bluesound or cambridge audio, Sony or such streamers? I have a sonos now and it leaves a bit to be desired. Looking at the cambridge azure now but have no way to demo any of them. Cant afford the NAD and the 2000$ Sony is a bit much. Any help or insight would be great.

 

[AlphaEcho35]

Are you still using the internal DAC in the Sonos? I assume you have the Connect? Have you tried hooking the Connect to a good quality external DAC? I found a major improvement in sound quality doing that with mine. I tried the Bluesound Node for a while, but there wasn't much of an improvement over the Connect/Bifrost DAC combination.
I now run ROON as the music interface and still using several Connects as streamers, as well as a Raspberry Pi/Allo DigiOne feeding into my Yggdrasil DAC on my main system. I can do up to 24/192 with that setup.

 

[Emotiva!]

Are you still using the internal DAC in the Sonos? I assume you have the Connect? Have you tried hooking the Connect to a good quality external DAC? I found a major improvement in sound quality doing that with mine. I tried the Bluesound Node for a while, but there wasn't much of an improvement over the Connect/Bifrost DAC combination.
I now run ROON as the music interface and still using several Connects as streamers, as well as a Raspberry Pi/Allo DigiOne feeding into my Yggdrasil DAC on my main system. I can do up to 24/192 with that setup.

I run the sonos straight into a peachtree grand integrated that has a 32 bit DAC with 24/192 Asynchronous USB Input built in but I can hear a fairly large difference direct from laptop into the USB input rather than the sonos into unbalanced rca. I'm wondering if the higher end streamers would make a huge noticeable difference. This is getting all too confusing lol.

 

[E-Stat]

Do I gather correctly the answer to the question "Are you still using the internal DAC in the Sonos?" is no?

Have you tried using the optical out from the Sonos to the Peachtree?

 

[AlphaEcho35]

I run the sonos straight into a peachtree grand integrated that has a 32 bit DAC with 24/192 Asynchronous USB Input built in but I can hear a fairly large difference direct from laptop into the USB input rather than the sonos into unbalanced rca. I'm wondering if the higher end streamers would make a huge noticeable difference. This is getting all too confusing lol.

OK, if I am understanding you correctly, your outputs from the Sonos (which I assume is the Connect model) are the unbalanced RCA's - right? That means you are still going through the Sonos' internal DAC, which is very mediocre. Run a cable from the Coax output jack on the Sonos to the Coax1 input on your Peachtree Grand (you can use a regular RCA cable). On the Sonos app, disable the software based preamp (which has volume and equalizer controls) this will totally bypass the Sonos DAC and give you a straight digital signal to your Peachtree, where you can use the Peachtree DAC to process the signal like you are doing with your laptop on the USB input. You will also be controlling the volume directly from the Peachtree, since the Sonos will now output full voltage on the digital signal from the coax jack (which will improve sound quality as well.)
Looking at the Sonos interface, I think this is now under the "Advanced Audio" controls section - you want the Line Out Level to be set to FIXED. Also, make sure AUDIO COMPRESSION is set to UNCOMPRESSED. Ideally, you have your Sonos Connect hard wired via ethernet.

In this scenario, you will be able to compare the Sonos streamer and laptop signals much more evenly, since they both will be processed by the Peachtree's DAC, which I would think is probably a very decent DAC.

 

[Emotiva!]

OK, if I am understanding you correctly, your outputs from the Sonos (which I assume is the Connect model) are the unbalanced RCA's - right? That means you are still going through the Sonos' internal DAC, which is very mediocre. Run a cable from the Coax output jack on the Sonos to the Coax1 input on your Peachtree Grand (you can use a regular RCA cable). On the Sonos app, disable the software based preamp (which has volume and equalizer controls) this will totally bypass the Sonos DAC and give you a straight digital signal to your Peachtree, where you can use the Peachtree DAC to process the signal like you are doing with your laptop on the USB input. You will also be controlling the volume directly from the Peachtree, since the Sonos will now output full voltage on the digital signal from the coax jack (which will improve sound quality as well.)
Looking at the Sonos interface, I think this is now under the "Advanced Audio" controls section - you want the Line Out Level to be set to FIXED. Also, make sure AUDIO COMPRESSION is set to UNCOMPRESSED. Ideally, you have your Sonos Connect hard wired via ethernet.

In this scenario, you will be able to compare the Sonos streamer and laptop signals much more evenly, since they both will be processed by the Peachtree's DAC, which I would think is probably a very decent DAC.

You are correct, I am using the unbalanced RCA's and have been from the start and the sonos is hard wired to ethernet. The DAC in the peachtree is the venerable ESS Saber 32 9018. I've never looked into the advanced audio section in the Sonos but will try that. My problem is I have some HD tracks files and they wont play with the Sonos, so I have to plug direct into the USB "B" input in the amp from laptop. That's when I hear a big difference in sound. So it seems the sonos is limited in music selection to cd quality only flac files I have, which is over 400 gig worth but for critical listening in HD I have to unplug and move the laptop to the stereo rack. Another problem I have is I just bought a new house and it has 2 living rooms so my Peachtree will be downstairs running some sonus faber Venere 3.0 and the upstairs will be running a tube amp running Yamaha NS1000's. I was just going to get another sonos connect but with the sound quality and playback issue I'm wondering if I should just scrap the sonos and look at another product that I can stream to both stereos utilizing my phone and tablets to control songs and playlists. I'm also unsure of the inputs in the amp and which ones are connected to the internal DAC. I assumed the only one connected is the USB "B" input and the rest I don't know about. Sounds like I've had it hooked up completely wrong for years running a DAC into a DAC lol.

 

[AlphaEcho35]

I would strongly suggest that you look into using Roon. It adds so much functionality above and beyond what Sonos is doing and will let you incorporate all of your devices and systems into one cohesive setup. What I like about it is that for HD music that I normally play on my main system (with the Raspberry Pi/Digione streamer), I can also play directly on the Sonos system in another room and Roon will take care of downsampling to work on the Sonos. I know the Raspberry Pi/DigiOne sounds like a cheap streamer setup, but you would be quite surprised - I found it better sounding than the Bluesound Node and others report that it plays in the same league as the Aurilic Aries and the like. Check out the reviews on Darko.
Roon does require some setup (a dedicated music server for one - I use an older Mac Mini for that and have my music on a NAS.)

 

[AlphaEcho35]

I started leaving Sonos for the same reason as you - I wanted to play hi resolution music. I've found the point of diminishing returns for me was 24/192. Obviously well above what Sonos can do, but not DSD territory. I've also dabbled with MQA, but since Roon now provides much of the MQA unfolding, I have found that works fine for me.
I have my own music library of mostly FLAC 16/44 files, some hi-res, and a bunch of MP3's of varying quality. I also have a Tidal account. Roon integrates all of that into one fairly seamless music library.

 

[richamor]

As others have said...the Sonos DAC is poor at best. An external DAC would be best but the internal DAC on the Peachtree is no slouch. I would go there first and look into an external DAC next. It gives you so many options for future changes.

fwiw-I use my Sonos in the garage along with the Squeezebox Touch. In the house I use an Aries Mini into an AMI Musik DAC both using a Mojo Audio power supply. And yes that made a huge difference in the sound much more for the better. I still prefer an LP but that combination streaming Spotify premium is pretty darn close.

 

[E-Stat]

My problem is I have some HD tracks files and they wont play with the Sonos, so I have to plug direct into the USB "B" input in the amp from laptop. That's when I hear a big difference in sound. So it seems the sonos is limited in music selection to cd quality only flac files I have, which is over 400 gig worth but for critical listening in HD I have to unplug and move the laptop to the stereo rack.

Understand the target market for the Sonos is the Bose set, not folks interested in the highest resolution audio. You can inexpensively provide that capability using a Raspberry Pi based platform. They can be found either with an onboard DAC "Hat" or without.

I'm also unsure of the inputs in the amp and which ones are connected to the internal DAC. I assumed the only one connected is the USB "B" input and the rest I don't know about.

You have four different kinds of digital inputs: Toslink (optical), USB, coaxial via RCA and coaxial via BNC. Look at what you've got connected!

Sounds like I've had it hooked up completely wrong for years running a DAC into a DAC lol.

Actually, you've simply bypassed the DAC in the Peachtree which is likely better than the one with the Sonos.

 

[AlphaEcho35]

I would think the Sabre DAC in the Peachtree easily outperforms the old Cirrus Logic DAC chipset in the Sonos. I have tried a multitude of external DACs with my Sonos Connects and all of them were a significant improvement over the built in DAC. The Sonos Connect still makes for a great streamer box, even without hi-res capability.

 

[Bk1]

Yamaha wxc-50 .....
I have 2 ....
One plugged directly into a parasound A21 , the other a B&K EX-442...
Sound fantastic - especially tidal lossless .....

Highly recommended

-bk