MX-135 No Audio from any inpu EXCEPT the EXTERNAL 7.1 Inputs

[macman007]

A freak thing happened 2 days ago. We had a freak lightening strike come in the window, across the room to the far wall and find it's way into my turntable while an LP was playing. I was in the bathroom, coming back to shut things down, as I knew a storm was coming. As I came up the hall and was turning into the room, it lit up so bright I was blinded and fell into the wall. The power flashed off for a heartbeat then back on again. I gathered myself as best/fast as I could and went into the room, You could smell the Ozone in the air, the MX135 and turntable were still on, but the alpha numeric display on the 135 was out, but all the other lights and indicators were still on. I shut the turntable down, then the 135, finally the HT-5100 power center that everything is plugged into to isolate it from these kinds of things. I'd never seen lightening come in a room before, let alone go across it almost 18 feet.

A short while later after the storm passed ( and I changed my shorts) I went back in to listen to more music. I powered everything up like normal it all came on as it was supposed to , the display was back on the MX-135, and everything else powered up off the power center as normal. I put a record on and started to play it, and nothing. Oh, volumes set at default zero after power down. So I turned it up. Nope, no dice... Now I'm sweating, I start checking things, is the table OK, cart wires still there, interconnects OK, Phono Stage OK, Amps OK, Speakers OK? Yep everything is gold, except there is no sound, and not only from just the Phono input, nothing on on any of the inputs, Analog or Digital types. I tried to enter SETUP, to see if I can perform a full reset. I push setup, it clicks the relay then says SETUP in the display, but no video, not composite, not component ,nor S-Video, not out of any of the video outs from either zones and all the displays are working correctly other wise. Things are getting worse, not better and now I'm I'm a sweaty mess, really getting upset, about to tears really.

So I cant exit SETUP now since I can't see a menu to know whether I can access it or not, so I try the main power switch off for 2 minute reset trick. It comes out of setup after power off for just over 2 minutes, I power it back on, the problems are still there. Eventually, I figure out the only thing I can use, or that will play normally is my Mc DVD player from its 7.1 outs to the MX-135's EXTERNAL inputs. Set the knob to External and viola, perfect sound ! Volume, bass treble loudness and the other settings all still work, but only on the external input position, good, but then again not so good. Houston, we've had a problem...

I'm pretty good working on gear, well most gear thats not all chip and processor based. The MX-135 is nothing but. Even still, I give it a shot, and spend the better part of a day tearing it down, inspecting boards and components, check voltages,diodes, the power supply, fuses ( it's never that easy for me), everything I can. I had the unit completely tore down and Inspect everything 3 times with bright light and magnification and I can find nothing amiss, not even an SMD component, nothing in any board, the face-plate boards, nothing. So I take the opportunity to clean it head to toe and make it like new again, mitigating 12 years of dirt. Put it all back together, nope still broke, so she sits and I fire off an email to Binghampton and Landon Mullen in service there, explaining everything in detail, including what I've done so far and found out, what I suspect is amiss. The reply however wasn't what I was expecting at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a free-bee here, not head of the line privileges, preferential treatment, but I didn't expect to be told basically were busy, were not even going going to get you on the bench until till into next year, no matter what the service secretary tells you, no matter how bad or not bad you units situation is. You can always take it to any authorized local service center....if it gets fixed,..bla bla..

Really, 6 months MINIMUM just to bench it, and you don't even know whats wrong yet, haven't laid eyes on it ? Everything still powers up and lights up, and it works 100% in the External mode. My money is on 1 of 3 things,.. #1, a chip or chips in the face-plate/operation/control electronics spiked and fried, possibly turning on the muting switched for all the inputs in the process,... #2 the Digital Audio Engine for the DSP (which controls everything including Video, BUT the EXTERNAL inputs), is fried and needs to be replaced, or #3 the programming/BIOS was scrambled from the voltage surge- power on-off rapid event, and either needs to be reloaded/updated because the software is corrupted now, or a factory reset (which I cant do) needs to be performed. Momentum Data Systems are the makers of the Digital Audio Engine but it's licensed to McIntosh, and they won't talk to me or give me any access to resources, it's their board piggy backing the McIntosh mother board, with McIntosh specific programming running it, and everything has to go thru it analog and digital, all EXCEPT the External inputs so says the schematics block diagram. It's got to be a software, DSP Engine, or chip set issue, the thing is electrically healthy, really it was isolated 6 ways to Sunday from any surges, as was everything that is connected to it, EXCEPT the air, the tonearm ground which goes to the ground on phono preamp, then the ground on the 135's case, and the tonearm and turntable motor/spindle/ arm wires. It's not a crispy critter at all no bad smells, burnt components, nothing. No other components commected are hurt or malfunctioning

I want it fixed, I don't want, and can't afford a new processor or a preamp. The new processors don't have all the inputs and outputs this one has, they lean more to, networking and streaming HDMI and theater/digital media I don't need or want any of that in my stereo/home theater, which is perfect foe me with only 7.1 channels.I have a C-32 as a back up preamp for audio, but I have to replace all its ribbon cables, the faceplate that's in rough shape, a bunch of those 10 volt caps that always fail, it's inop. at the moment.

I don't trust most shops to do the work of the 135 or any of my gear, as I've seen what they can do and it isn't pretty. 2 of the 3 authorized service shops they gave me are hacks and the third one is not proficient on the newer gear. This is why I wanted Binghanpton to do it. Terry DeWitt is on vacation till September and running 4 - 6 months back, and not sure if he does HT processors. I have no experience with Audio Classics or anyone else. I would be more than happy to do it myself, but Mcintosh wont publish/release the manual-process-equipment needed to access the units hardware and software, so that ties my hands. I don't really want to wait till next year, I mean would any of you want to be told by a company you have spent considerable money with over the years we can't do anything, not even look at it for you until next year, when next year is after New Years, 6 months away?

If any one has any ideas on how to access the hardware or any other possible fixes, or any suggestions in general, please post them. I'm not trying to get Landon in trouble, so I'm holding off on running to Ron C or Chuck H or someone up the ladder to get things moving faster. My local dealers-service centers have screwed me way too many times over the last 3 decades, and I know this isn't going to be a big deal once someone can get into the hardware and software. to check, reset, reprogram or replace the DSP engine or chips/software.

What does everyone else think?

 

[twiiii]

Ist I would call my insurance company, then call Ryan at. Audio Classics and have him send you a call tag for pick up . Have him send you a written estimate, and keep your fingers crossed. Maybe the insurance company will pick up the entire bill or buy you a replacement.

 

[damacman]

Yep - this is why you have homeowners insurance. When the hand of God enters your room and heads right for the turntable, that answers the question of which format he prefers! Unfortunately, he was a bit heavy handed ...

 

[c_dk]

The OP's additude makes it seem in dealing with him will be trouble.......plus

A lightning strike and programmed processors is a repair looking for trouble. Best to get a replacement via insurance.

 

[MACKIE1975]

Lightning strike and water damage, just keep a distance as far as the moon to the earth.

 

[macman007]

The OP's additude makes it seem in dealing with him will be trouble.......plus

A lightning strike and programmed processors is a repair looking for trouble. Best to get a replacement via insurance.

I can try insurance, I don't know if the policy will include this stuff, it's expensive and not on a stand alone declaration or policy rider. Agreed lightening strikes are water damage are major PIA's for anyone repairing anything electrical or electronics, especially where multi processors/chips are used in such large quantities.

Now, as to dealing with me because my attitude might indicate trouble. Nothing is farther from the truth, I guess if you read a post the way it's written it could be interpreted several ways. That said, I'm a nice guy, really and I try to go along to get along. But don't try and BS me,.. I've been around a long time,... been there and done a thing or 2, been repairing and restoring electronics for others for a while, for myself forever. I've seen a lot of things, dealt with some OK shops, some great ones and some really bad shops. The great ones are all but gone, not too many good ones left, and the world is littered with the bad ones who are out to collect a check, one as high as possible, and correctly repairing your gear in a timely fashion, coupled with good customer service is all but a thing of the past.

At best the reply I received from McIntosh service was specifically written and crafted in such a way, that as a consumer I would do one of 2 things. First off I may become dissuaded, discouraged, maybe feel it's a hopeless case, too old to fix (which I admit to feeling after reading it), due to the exceedingly long lead in time, with diagnosing getting parts and doing the repairs possibly taking a year, maybe more. The second thing that email might do the way it was worded would be to encourage or push me to run right out and buy a brand new 9K$ replacement unit from McIntosh, an MX-121, MX-122 or, MX-160.

Not happening. Especially after the issues I had with them and both the MS-300 and MS-750's I own that they hung me and a bunch of others out to dry when the power supply caps went belly up. I was able to fix both of mine myself after they refused and called them both end of life WELL before they were 10 years old. A power supply doesn't fail in 10 years, but the caps used in it which were part of the capacitor plague, that's what failed within 60 months of purchase. I'm lucky, I was able to catch them both and keep them offline till I repaired them, which prevented the drives and mother boards, processors from frying. An MCD 7000 I owned before than is yet another scar from the past, when the drive failed it had one of the only drives on the market from Phillips that was (the CDM-01) no longer available, or supported unless you cannibalized a cheaper unit with one in it.. Great times... I have spent a lot of money with McIntosh over the years. However, I'm not going to keep doing it if they are not going to keep up fundamental tech support, parts, and service for the gear they sell.

I know of Audio Classics, however I have no direct contact with them. My first thought was of them, but when Landon didn't recommend them in his reply I figured it was for a reason, the same one he had for basically telling me I was last mouth on the tit, and my gear will get attention sometime between today and the first of never, and gave me a link to find a repair shop of my own choosing.

I just want my 135 fixed, that's all. If I had access to the internals,. the processors and programming, I'd do it myself, but I don't, and the only place that does tells me it's backed up until 2018. Local repair facility's probably aren't going to have access to the stuff either, and in that case would eventually end up sending the unit to Binghampton anyways.

EDIT: I planned to buy a C2500 first quarter 2018, but after this, not only is it possible the funds wont be there if I cant get this thing serviced, and it needs to be replaced with a different/new unit, which would be a shame as this one is immaculate inside and out, and still sounded glorious.. In the extreme case of being forced to replace it, I might not want to spend that money again with McIntosh, since EVERY service issue I've had the last 10 years has been (I feel) badly handled, and I have been left on my own l to figure things out myself. There is one positive exception and that was with the MX135, Landon was able to tell me why bass management was acting up. I was able to locate a faulty capacitor, C215 and replace it. Other than that, this thing has been a joy to own, and has provided me bullet proof performance since 2005... which is why I don't want to give it up and buy a newer one or a replacement.

I give up...

 

[petehall347]

the fault is likely in the input switching chips . this can even happen if switching input wires whilst amp is on .

 

[macman007]

the fault is likely in the input switching chips . this can even happen if switching input wires whilst amp is on .

Are these the chips on the analog (single ended connector) input board? The chips that are located right off the analog inputs chips test OK, but past there I believe the signal the is converted to digital for communication on the network and up to the Audio Engine board. I had most of the analog inputs turned off, so I have only tested he ones that I had previously turned on in Setup. However for the reasons stated above, I cant access Setup, as there is no video output to turn on because of this, so I cant look at Setup to turn on/off other analog inputs/things or to reset the software to factory as-shipped defaults.

It's interesting the External inputs are the only ones that still work fine, and allow you me listen as I normally do on the other analog or digital inputs, which along with the video are non functional. This is why I suspect the Audio Engine or software, everything goes thru that thing except the External inputs if you look at the block diagram and schematic. At least thats what I'm seeing.

 

[petehall347]

there is more to this than i suspected . was thinking aloud about units i have repaired . i am not familiar with your unit . i will need to look it up .

 

[c_dk]

I think we have a paradox here:

Since there are no or at least too few competent techs the busy ones can't or won't put you to the top of the list.

I think it is crazy that McIntosh no longer requires their dealers to have service, but then again I think Internet sales are a bad idea also.

Sounds like Landon certainly has job security. If I was still a dealer and I had a warranty issue, even if you swap out the problem unit for the client, then to wait months for the issue to be resolved would not be acceptable.

I really do not want to be snarky, but if no one is competent it greatly limits your options.

The real lesson here for Mc owners is to be sure your equipment value is known by your underwriter, your coverage is for like kind replacement, and you keep it updated.

 

[MACKIE1975]

Put it on Ebay or Craigslist and divulge the lightning strike issue then let it rolls.

 

[twiiii]

The folks are great at Audio Classics great. Steve the owner owns a MX 135 which he operates 24/7. They have a great staff and are more apt to be able to give you a faster turn around more economically than the factory. I worked for a Mac dealer for over 34 years, and in some instances when we couldn't get service on tuners such as MR-80 or Parts for MCD 7008 or 09 they went back to Audio Classics for a fast repair. They always seem to have speaker parts when the factory was caught in between. They have mods for ML series and early XR series speakers that make them better tun new And remember you can buy a pre-owned Mx 121 and 151's for less than 1/2 your $9K. I can't speak for your insurance but we have 40% of the value of the policy for contents.

 

[twiiii]

Audio Classics just got a MX-150/151 for sale for $3299 asking price. That's a deal. Remember a 150 and a 151 are identical part for part, excepting for the name. You can ask for any number of soft ware updates applied if you wish. Ryan can help you with that issue.

 

[macman007]

I have often looked at the newer MX series processors that came after the MX-135 and 136. The problem is all the newer stuff have far less flexibility than the MX-135. Sure they have HDMI, more than enough of them I gather, most have limited component, composite and S-Video in's and outs. However all have less, often a lot less analog inputs, about the same amount of digital inputs, some added balanced and unbalanced in/outs for the newer surround formats WiFI, Streaming, USB, a Card Reader and more.

All that stuff is great, but there is nothing out there identical to the MX135 with say added HDMI ports, newer surround formats, with maybe better DAC's. The MX136 is the only one that comes close and for all that, I don't need HDMI, I use a work around solution that allows up to 4K resolution where available. The new units is seem as if they crammed as much 'stuff' into them as possible, but skimped on options, connections etc. In other words the balance multimedia, whereas the MX-135 was an even split between home theater and music and does both very well. Only the MX 121 comes close to what I already have and would want if I were inclined to buy a new processor, which I really don't want to, as this one serves my needs and beyond as it is before it got hurt.

It's a slippery slope, I could try Audio Classics, but I really hate shipping, and my boxes were tossed long ago, I'd need to buy a new one. I asked my wife to look over the insurance to see what the situation is, if the stuff is even covered, and if so up to how much. If I had to, and insurance settled, I could buy a used less than sparkling 135 and pull the parts I need to fix mine, then order new parts and swap them back, keep the other as a spare.

I don't know, this is a PITA, and I can't believe it's this difficult to get a amplifier repaired in a reasonable amount of time. There has yet to be anyone here to post that wants to take a shot or a guess at what is wrong.

As I sit here and type this I'm looking at it, it looks like it did the day I brought it home brand new, only it doesn't work the same. I'm hoping I don't have a 9K$ boat anchor. I took good care of this thing since day one, the idea was to have it to out last me..we shall see.

 

[petehall347]

if i studied the diagrams i could maybe give some pointers . just need to find the time . as i said before ic switches are pretty sensitive . and can cause all sorts of strange problems .
someone here must have worked on these things . they just need to find the thread .

 

[damacman]

Sometimes a tragedy like this is actually an opportunity presenting itself. I tend to look at such scenarios as an opportunity to upgrade.

Have you considered upgrading to a stand-alone 2-channel McIntosh preamp and a newer MX unit? For not a lot of money (in comparison to what you paid for your MX135 new), you could have something like a used MX151 and a used C47 or C48. Then, you can have your cake and eat it both by utilizing the PASSTHRU feature of the C47/C48. I did a single box for a long time. Now, I use a C200 in conjunction with an Integra 80.6 and simply couldn't be happier. The C200 provides all of the audio inputs, switching, and flexibility I need for the sources in my sig. In addition, the 80.6 provides all of the inputs, switching, and flexibility that I need for the Home Theater aspect of the system.

Either way you go, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[macman007]

Thank you Damacman, and to everyone in fact,. I appreciate the information and well wishes. I was going to do something similar, but instead of the C-45 - C-52, I wanted to get the C2500 instead, using it in Pass-Thru with to the MX-135. I suppose I could buy another MX-135 from Audio Classics and have enough left over for for a used C2500, perhaps a deal could be struck buying both at once. In that case, I would use the newer 135 as a test bed until I figure out what failed on my 135 the order the part, chips, Audio Engine, whatever it is already programmed and install it myself. Then I would have 2 MX-135's.. Not sure what I'd do with an extra 135, I'm sure I could figure something out, maybe use it as a whole house audio or second system solution?...

We'll see what insurance says. My wife is dragging her feet as usual on this, if it was hers it would be done already. She had the agent on the phone and didn't/forgot to ask him. I'm like, whatever. I'm frustrated, it hasn't been a great week, my MX got blown up, I have a pre surgical procedure under anesthesia I dont really want but have to get day after tomorrow, with a major one 10 days later, both for my back. I'm not looking forward to either, it, but it has to be done. So I'll say sorry to those here following along for any perceived attitude that I may be projecting in text, it's unintentional believe me. I want to say thank you to those posting their thoughts and ideas, please keep them coming, I want the satisfaction of repairing this thing, myself if possible, even if the experts can't seem to get to it. Or, I'm not picky, if I can get Audio Classics to take it on, even better. I hate to ship stuff though..

I'm actually kind of warming up to the idea of replacing it with another MX-135 (not so sure about a MX-151 or other), then getting the C2500 and fixing my 135 at my leisure down the road, should things work out that Homeowners picks up the tab. In the meantime we'll see what develops. I bought it new from a long time Authorized McIntosh brick and mortar shop in Maryland and have all my receipts so there are no questions there.

 

[twiiii]

The advantage to the MX150/151 is that you have as many inputs as input receptacles. So thats 9 digital, 9 analog, 2 balanced, 5 HDMI,etc audio plus video inputs. . You can combine S video with analog or digital audio inputs. You can do as many combinations as you can imagine. I agree there aren't as many S inputs and composite inputs. Better equipment has component inputs or HDMI. So I guess two s and two composite are adequate. I use both balanced and digital audio inputs for the MVP 861 and 891 making for 4 inputs with a HDMI input for the 891 and a component input for the video of the 861. The 861 is up scaled to 1080p. With a 61 inch plasma display you have to be closer than 6 ft to see the difference. Some times 3 ft. The 891 in the digital mode is almost the equal of the 861 in the analog mode using balanced connections for audio. The MX 135 is of the same generation as the MX 119 which I owned previously. And my MX 151 is so much more than the 119 ever hoped to be. One example is applause so natural with the 151 where is just isn't right with the 119.

 

[feinstei]

The advantage to the MX150/151 is that you have as many inputs as input receptacles. So thats 9 digital, 9 analog, 2 balanced, 5 HDMI,etc audio plus video inputs. . You can combine S video with analog or digital audio inputs.

The variety of inputs on the 150/151 are a huge benefit over the MX-121. The 121 lacks S-Video inputs which is a huge lack (I had to buy an external S-Video->HDMI converter in order to connect my MLD-7020 Laser Disc player to the MX-121. Of course, the MX-150/151 lacks the Internet Radio option that the MX-121 has -- which made my decision for me....

 

[macman007]

All these reasons all the differences with the newer processors are dizzying, what I call "information overload" and more, are why I had hoped to avoid changing/replacing the 135. I could care less about new tech, I like the older stuff just fine, and it's all to much to take in without going to a dealer, which I REFUSE flat out to do. If I can't count on them for service, why would I spend another dime with them? I don't trust them, not after the whole MS300/750 episodes, which I will never forget or forgive.

Now, I have a lot of sources, most are all analog, and though having the 2 sets of XLR inputs is nice on the 135, the real bonus for me is the 10+ single ended inputs, which makes connection of legacy non-digital sources, then turning off the rest a pleasure. I can care less about Composite video, S-Video is plenty for me, as is component, video, which looks great to me, thus I have ZERO need for HDMI as well. For the 1 or 2 digital sources I have here, ( I also own the MVP861/891), which I use all of the 891's outputs, both digital and analog, only one and one from the 861 XLR's and single ended 7.1 analog outs as source connections to the 135. Some may think this redundant or stupid I guess, but you'd have to see whats going on here, that is whats integrated in the whole system, 3 turntables, 3 open reels, 3 cassette decks, 2 tuners, S-VHS, Laser Disc. I'm not explaining it well, you'd have to see it all, . Then there all the amps, both for Zone A, 2 channel and multichannel digital or analog, then Zone B 2 channel , which I'm sure the other newer processors can handle. The built in phono stage in the 135, while identical to the 119 I'm guessing, I found sounded more neutral than on the 119. and these newer processors up to the 151, when I bought it. I use 2 outboard phono stages, along with the 135's inboard.

One of the biggest reasons I wanted to go with the C2500 was for both phono stages, it's MM and MC stage, (and the tubes for my 2 channel listening pleasure, which frankly I do 75% of my listening/system use, and only 25% digital or home theater) and flexibility to move most of my 2 channel analog sources over from the 135. You see, I'm in that odd spot where yes, I do 75% or better of my listening to 2 channel analog, or at best High Resolution 192/24 files 2 channel, along with SACD/DVD/A, CD and the files on my MS750/MS300's, but I do enjoy movies in surround as well as the occasional concert video, which it works perfectly for both. There are more sources, these above are the more popular ones I use almost daily.

At the risk of being called a hard-headed PITA, a difficult customer, crazy, obstinate, or even cheap, nasty, a troll, whatever, I have exactly 0 reasons to replace my 135 now, (other than this come-lately totally off the wall issue I really need someone to resolve for me, without a bunch of craziness like it'll be next year, perhaps your better off getting a new one/replacement. Honestly, if they are too busy, tell me and I'll fix it, (I'm capable of most gear and service/restore gear from home,.. ( I have limited ideas as to what Mc is actually doing or thinking on the 135's internals, other than running everything thru the Digital Audio Engine after the inputs digitize the input signals, then send them thru the serial data bus and front panel / other switching) it serves and satisfies me 100% as it is, as my system is, (I'm running XRT-20's and MC501's for 2 channel BTW) and I typically listen 4-6 hours a day, mostly LP"s, college radio, and open reel/ tape. The only 'change' or 'want' I can honestly, realistically, and truthfully justify to myself or anyone else, is adding the C2500 and the ability to run in pass thru mode, which has been an addition in the making for almost 2 years now. Every time I'm almost ready to, something like this happens and puts me back financially or otherwise.

I LIKE my MX135, I love it in fact, and I'm sure the folks with better ears than mine, the new processors sound, well, newer, better, different, whatever. I don't want different, I like what I have, I bought it brand new, its perfect as it is, and it's payed for. Buying another processor is a lateral move at best, and I'm not that guy that throws something away I payed a lot of money for, because something newer is available, or something needs repaired. Part of the experience in buying McIntosh gear, it that it is suppose to last a lifetime, and still be supported by the company. If thats not the mind set of McIntosh today, if all they are doing is riding the tech bubble, selling stuff to consumers just because, and purposely designing/selling components that fail or have intentionally limited shelf lives (such as the MS300/750 which I wont soon forget) then perhaps I need to rethink my decision making paradigm, start looking around to other companys such as Audio Research, or the more boutique companys. If that sounds bitter or a bit angry, it should. I know I'm a tiny fish in a big pond, but i put my money up over the years, and that was hard-won money, that I choose to spend with McIntosh. I expect to be treated better by the company that I spent enough money with to buy a modest home over the years. Perhaps I need to step my game up a bit. and after all, 'fool me once' you know? If they can't repair a processor pre amp in a timely fashion, and I will need to upgrade because of this, that is spend 10K$ every ten years for a replacement, well let me just say it's not going to happen, not again, not to me of thi is the treatment long time Mc customers get, then count me out of the game.

On the other hand I have heard ZERO back from the insurance company, they also dont enderstand this next year thing, and are questioning whether this is just an excuse to upgrade at their expense I'm sure, so It looks like I'll be taking this one on the chin, yet another reason I don't want to even think about replacement, new, used or otherwise. They too asked me why I would spend 9K$ for something that offers 0 in customer service, ? Until I see different' I cant disagree. Apologies all around if I come off abrasive, I'm very disappointed, and this isn't the first time, after many many years of pride in ownership, to be told my best solution it to 'get rid of it' before anyone besides myself has even looked at it. After a week I'm no closer to any resolution than when I started, and the ball isnt even moving on the field. Anyone with feelings would be upset.

These threads used to be regularly perused by folks that work at Mc, Like Ron C, and Chuck every so often,... I guess that's all changed too..