My system - new house = the next chapter!
- Thread starter pete_mac
- Start date
pete_mac
Super Member
Thanks all for the lovely comments! 
A brief update. Whilst the components themselves have not changed, I realised that my 'old faithful' Atacama SE28 stands were a bit too high for my current low-slung listening position. The stands are 70cm tall and the JPW speakers are quite tall themselves, placing the tweeter too high.
I've happened upon some clean Soundstyle Z2 stands, along with an Apollo Mezzo Soprano four shelf rack in crinkle black with smoked glass shelves. The stands desperately need to be sand or lead-filled soon. My Atacamas are much more intert.
This new rack has simplified the look of my system and puts the gear front-and-centre for maximum perve factor, rather than being couped-up inside the old child-proof cabinet. Here's hoping that my boys keep their end of the bargain and keep their hands away! I think I will make up some kind of lined fabric cover to keep the gear 'out of sight, out of mind' when I'm not using it.
I've also reverted to some uber-high-end solid core 18AWG copper cable courtesy of Bunnings Warehouse hardware. I'm quite liking the sound vs your average fine stranded copper cable.
A brief update. Whilst the components themselves have not changed, I realised that my 'old faithful' Atacama SE28 stands were a bit too high for my current low-slung listening position. The stands are 70cm tall and the JPW speakers are quite tall themselves, placing the tweeter too high.
I've happened upon some clean Soundstyle Z2 stands, along with an Apollo Mezzo Soprano four shelf rack in crinkle black with smoked glass shelves. The stands desperately need to be sand or lead-filled soon. My Atacamas are much more intert.
This new rack has simplified the look of my system and puts the gear front-and-centre for maximum perve factor, rather than being couped-up inside the old child-proof cabinet. Here's hoping that my boys keep their end of the bargain and keep their hands away! I think I will make up some kind of lined fabric cover to keep the gear 'out of sight, out of mind' when I'm not using it.
I've also reverted to some uber-high-end solid core 18AWG copper cable courtesy of Bunnings Warehouse hardware. I'm quite liking the sound vs your average fine stranded copper cable.
pete_mac
Super Member
Further changes are afoot at Casa Del Mac!
As much a I love my JPW Ruby 2s, I wanted to try something else. A bunch of members on a local Aussie high forum made some fantastic offers to a 'wanted to buy' ad and I was close to acting on one in particular... when I stumbled upon a nice clean pair of PMC GB1i speakers. I figured it couldn't hurt to give them a try, as they ticked the boxes regarding colour, the WAF was high, and I'd never had a pair of PMCs in my system.
These feature the same drivers as the DB1i but have a much larger enclosure. The 'advanced transmission line' has a length of 2.4m in this model vs 1.5m in the smaller DB1i. PMC claim a frequency response of 29hz to 25khz for this model, but they specify no limits/tolerances etc and I think they might be a tad 'generous' with this figure. That said, this speaker does offer 'Usher S520-like' bass in that it doesn't appear to have a midbass hump, It certainly digs deeper than the Ushers though - the bass is trim and taut.
I've been getting the best balance to the sound when placing the speakers about 20cm from the rear wall, and about 40cm from the side walls. This doesn't sound like much, abut after much experimentation regarding speaker positioning, this offers the best sound regarding bass extension and imaging.
They are lovely looking speakers, with excellent build quality and a lovely satin finish cherry veneer. Sound-wise, I find them to be relatively neutral with excellent resolving capabilities. I'm very much looking forward to spending more time with these suckers!
As much a I love my JPW Ruby 2s, I wanted to try something else. A bunch of members on a local Aussie high forum made some fantastic offers to a 'wanted to buy' ad and I was close to acting on one in particular... when I stumbled upon a nice clean pair of PMC GB1i speakers. I figured it couldn't hurt to give them a try, as they ticked the boxes regarding colour, the WAF was high, and I'd never had a pair of PMCs in my system.
These feature the same drivers as the DB1i but have a much larger enclosure. The 'advanced transmission line' has a length of 2.4m in this model vs 1.5m in the smaller DB1i. PMC claim a frequency response of 29hz to 25khz for this model, but they specify no limits/tolerances etc and I think they might be a tad 'generous' with this figure. That said, this speaker does offer 'Usher S520-like' bass in that it doesn't appear to have a midbass hump, It certainly digs deeper than the Ushers though - the bass is trim and taut.
I've been getting the best balance to the sound when placing the speakers about 20cm from the rear wall, and about 40cm from the side walls. This doesn't sound like much, abut after much experimentation regarding speaker positioning, this offers the best sound regarding bass extension and imaging.
They are lovely looking speakers, with excellent build quality and a lovely satin finish cherry veneer. Sound-wise, I find them to be relatively neutral with excellent resolving capabilities. I'm very much looking forward to spending more time with these suckers!
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Looks like an interesting combination and I bet it sounds good. It's been a long time since I have had a room with nothing but audio equipment in it it. Looks like you have no choice but to focus on the music. Must be nice!
pete_mac
Super Member
Ha! You can't see the clutter, empty boxes, washing baskets etc in the rear of the room! I'm carefully excluding that from the photographic evidence
davidro
Lunatic Member
Ha! You can't see the clutter, empty boxes, washing baskets etc in the rear of the room! I'm carefully excluding that from the photographic evidence
Surely they're there to eliminate rear wall acoustic reflection?
pete_mac
Super Member
Surely they're there to eliminate rear wall acoustic reflection?
Infinitely and constantly variable room treatments!
pete_mac
Super Member
Yeah, I know what you mean! I've had that Ikea entertainment unit for quite some time, and it has a bit of sentimental value. I don't mind the look of the old unit to be honest, but my gear gets much better ventilation in the open rack.
It is currently sitting on the rear corner of the room, awaiting re-use in future
when the room is reconfigured.
The new rack will look VERY nice when I finally set up my AU-719/TU-710/SE-7 stack, along with a BA/CA-F1 combo. Finding genuine (compatible) Sansui racks in Australia is very hard!
pete_mac
Super Member
A bit of an update...
Whilst I was happy-ish with the PMCs, I felt that the imaging and bass wasn't as good as I had expected. I realised from day dot that this room was pretty average acoustically as there are minimal soft furnishings in the room at present. There's a bit of slap echo, and I feel there is just a but too much reverb and smearing of the sound stage. The bass was a tad wooly at times. The PMCs were clearly being let down by the room. Coupled with my new audio-gd DAC, I wasn't satisfied with the sound.
SOOOOO... with a tight budget in mind, I decided to tackle the room in a simple and cost-effective way. I managed to grab two charcoal/black 2400mm x 1200mm x 50mm sheets of Polymax XHD direct from Martini Industries at Ingleburn, south-western Sydney (15 minutes from where I live).
Martini had two sheets left over from a recent job, and were kind enough to cut each big panel into 3 x 1200mm x 800mm panels on their industrial cutter for ease of transport. All six of the smaller sheets fitted into the back of my Mazda 6 with the seats folded down, meaning I didn't need to stuff around with a trailer or van.
The pricing was dirt-cheap too - it worked out at AUD$20 per 1200mm x 800mm panel! At this price, there's no excuse for NOT grabbing some and seeing what it does to your room. Of course, internationally-available product names and types my vary - this is relevant for Australia only.
I chose the 50mm as the thickness suited my intended use as side and rear wall absorbers, as well as allowing them to be doubled-up to become XHD 100mm if I wanted to experiment with absorbers that performed better at very low frequencies.
http://www.polymaxinsulation.com.au/downloads/Polymax_MDS_Absorb_Data_Sheet.pdf
A big benefit of the Polymax XHD is its stiffness. It will stand perfectly upright against a wall with no sagging. I could quite easily get away without framing these panels, such is the quality of manufacture and cutting. I will, however, do something regarding framing and/or covering some day so that they blend in better with the decor.
Interestingly, the Absorb XHD is manufactured using the 'card and cross-lap' method which Tontine used to use for their Acoustisorb many years ago, before switching to the 'air lay' process which is faster but less consistent and results in varied density throughout the product. One SNAer has encountered issues with the Tontine in a professional environment and only uses the Absorb as a result. Apparently, the published stats for the Tontine product are also based upon the old product from a few years ago (cheeky!) rather than the newer 'air lay' product which doesn't perform quite as well. It's amazing how much background and technical info there is on pro audio forums out there.
I had a bit of a listen with some familiar tracks, and then embarked on some non-scientific panel placement. I basically replaced some of the temporary panels and foam squares which I had placed at the first reflection points on the side wall, and on the rear wall elevated behind the listening chair. These were thin panels and your typical acoustic pyramid foam which did help a bit with slap echo, but little more. I also plonked a panel behind each speaker (this space was previously bare)
Cue the music... and whoaaaa, what do we have here? The improvement in reverb and echo was clear from the get-go. Imaging snapped into place, and subtleties which were previously masked are now clear and distinct. The sound is more coherent. From what I can tell, these panels have struck a pretty good balance between taming the ills of the room, yet allowing it to sound natural and still a tiny bit 'live'. Measurements may tell a different story, of course, but I'm very happy!
This is as good as I KNEW my system could sound. Gone are my concerns about the PMCs not quite living up to expectations, and likewise, that lingering doubt in the back of my mind that the audio-gd ES9018 DAC was too bright and not synergising with my rig. It's not the gear... IT'S YOUR ROOM, STUPID!!
Colour me impressed!
Now... let's see what wifey says when confronted with these black monoliths!
Whilst I was happy-ish with the PMCs, I felt that the imaging and bass wasn't as good as I had expected. I realised from day dot that this room was pretty average acoustically as there are minimal soft furnishings in the room at present. There's a bit of slap echo, and I feel there is just a but too much reverb and smearing of the sound stage. The bass was a tad wooly at times. The PMCs were clearly being let down by the room. Coupled with my new audio-gd DAC, I wasn't satisfied with the sound.
SOOOOO... with a tight budget in mind, I decided to tackle the room in a simple and cost-effective way. I managed to grab two charcoal/black 2400mm x 1200mm x 50mm sheets of Polymax XHD direct from Martini Industries at Ingleburn, south-western Sydney (15 minutes from where I live).
Martini had two sheets left over from a recent job, and were kind enough to cut each big panel into 3 x 1200mm x 800mm panels on their industrial cutter for ease of transport. All six of the smaller sheets fitted into the back of my Mazda 6 with the seats folded down, meaning I didn't need to stuff around with a trailer or van.
The pricing was dirt-cheap too - it worked out at AUD$20 per 1200mm x 800mm panel! At this price, there's no excuse for NOT grabbing some and seeing what it does to your room. Of course, internationally-available product names and types my vary - this is relevant for Australia only.
I chose the 50mm as the thickness suited my intended use as side and rear wall absorbers, as well as allowing them to be doubled-up to become XHD 100mm if I wanted to experiment with absorbers that performed better at very low frequencies.
http://www.polymaxinsulation.com.au/downloads/Polymax_MDS_Absorb_Data_Sheet.pdf
A big benefit of the Polymax XHD is its stiffness. It will stand perfectly upright against a wall with no sagging. I could quite easily get away without framing these panels, such is the quality of manufacture and cutting. I will, however, do something regarding framing and/or covering some day so that they blend in better with the decor.
Interestingly, the Absorb XHD is manufactured using the 'card and cross-lap' method which Tontine used to use for their Acoustisorb many years ago, before switching to the 'air lay' process which is faster but less consistent and results in varied density throughout the product. One SNAer has encountered issues with the Tontine in a professional environment and only uses the Absorb as a result. Apparently, the published stats for the Tontine product are also based upon the old product from a few years ago (cheeky!) rather than the newer 'air lay' product which doesn't perform quite as well. It's amazing how much background and technical info there is on pro audio forums out there.
I had a bit of a listen with some familiar tracks, and then embarked on some non-scientific panel placement. I basically replaced some of the temporary panels and foam squares which I had placed at the first reflection points on the side wall, and on the rear wall elevated behind the listening chair. These were thin panels and your typical acoustic pyramid foam which did help a bit with slap echo, but little more. I also plonked a panel behind each speaker (this space was previously bare)
Cue the music... and whoaaaa, what do we have here? The improvement in reverb and echo was clear from the get-go. Imaging snapped into place, and subtleties which were previously masked are now clear and distinct. The sound is more coherent. From what I can tell, these panels have struck a pretty good balance between taming the ills of the room, yet allowing it to sound natural and still a tiny bit 'live'. Measurements may tell a different story, of course, but I'm very happy!
This is as good as I KNEW my system could sound. Gone are my concerns about the PMCs not quite living up to expectations, and likewise, that lingering doubt in the back of my mind that the audio-gd ES9018 DAC was too bright and not synergising with my rig. It's not the gear... IT'S YOUR ROOM, STUPID!!
Colour me impressed!
Now... let's see what wifey says when confronted with these black monoliths!
pete_mac
Super Member
Another update - new (used) speakers and a room reconfiguration!
We bought new lounges for the living area, so I've moved the surplus 3.5 seater and 2.5 seater lounges into the 'media' room and have reorientated the system so that it sits along the long wall of the room, firing across towards the larger lounge. The room will eventually feature a screen for movie duties too, so I figured I may as well get used to the revised configuration now!
The sound is different, that's for sure. It's probably more of a nearfield experience in some ways. The imaging is possibly even better than before, but the depth of the sound stage isn't quite as good I believe. All things considered, it ain't too bad at all. I was expecting it to sound much worse! I think adding the big absorbent lounges has probably helped acoustically.
I've sat two of the Polymax XHD panels directly behind my head which helps with reflections, and the remainder are double-stacked behind the speakers. I will experiment further when time permits.
The new speakers are JM Lab/Focal Cobalt 816s in excellent condition. They feature trickle-down technology from the top-line JM Lab speakers of that era, including the Tioxid 5 tweeter from the Electra series and the W-cone woofer and mid from the Utopia series.
They also feature a window at the rear where you can view the crossover innards. I reckon a few Mills or Superes resistors and some Clarity Cap ESAs would go nicely in there, but for the time being I am supremely happy.
I'm not finding them to be the least bit spitty or fatiguing, and that's coupled with one of Kingwa's ES9018 DACs which is quite highly resolving and on the brighter side of things as far as Kingwa's products are concerned! There's a pretty good tonal balance from top to bottom, erring on the accurate/dry side of things rather than imparting any warmth to the sound.
The bass response is very good, reaching below 30hz in room but with a bit of boom, so I've inserted the port bungs for smoother bass performance overall with only a minor reduction in overall extension.
Overall, I'm very satisfied with this speaker downgrade/sidegrade of sorts.
We bought new lounges for the living area, so I've moved the surplus 3.5 seater and 2.5 seater lounges into the 'media' room and have reorientated the system so that it sits along the long wall of the room, firing across towards the larger lounge. The room will eventually feature a screen for movie duties too, so I figured I may as well get used to the revised configuration now!
The sound is different, that's for sure. It's probably more of a nearfield experience in some ways. The imaging is possibly even better than before, but the depth of the sound stage isn't quite as good I believe. All things considered, it ain't too bad at all. I was expecting it to sound much worse! I think adding the big absorbent lounges has probably helped acoustically.
I've sat two of the Polymax XHD panels directly behind my head which helps with reflections, and the remainder are double-stacked behind the speakers. I will experiment further when time permits.
The new speakers are JM Lab/Focal Cobalt 816s in excellent condition. They feature trickle-down technology from the top-line JM Lab speakers of that era, including the Tioxid 5 tweeter from the Electra series and the W-cone woofer and mid from the Utopia series.
They also feature a window at the rear where you can view the crossover innards. I reckon a few Mills or Superes resistors and some Clarity Cap ESAs would go nicely in there, but for the time being I am supremely happy.
I'm not finding them to be the least bit spitty or fatiguing, and that's coupled with one of Kingwa's ES9018 DACs which is quite highly resolving and on the brighter side of things as far as Kingwa's products are concerned! There's a pretty good tonal balance from top to bottom, erring on the accurate/dry side of things rather than imparting any warmth to the sound.
The bass response is very good, reaching below 30hz in room but with a bit of boom, so I've inserted the port bungs for smoother bass performance overall with only a minor reduction in overall extension.
Overall, I'm very satisfied with this speaker downgrade/sidegrade of sorts.
pete_mac
Super Member
Looks great mate. Ive resisted the change of room fig to something like yours once. Hopefully i can persevere
The sound staging and imaging is pretty comparable, but the big difference is bass - I find that room modes are harder to deal with when you fire speakers across a relatively narrow room.
davidro
Lunatic Member
For me the difference was day & night...!
ictwoody
I like vintage gear — my preamp is from 2007.
Looks great. What are your room dimensions? It looks similar in size to my upcoming dedicated room and I'm still weighing long wall vs short wall setup.
Edit: Nevermind. I found it in the first post. It's really close to my room. Mine is 12'x18'x9'.
What are your thoughts on long vs short wall placement?
- Woody
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Edit: Nevermind. I found it in the first post. It's really close to my room. Mine is 12'x18'x9'.
What are your thoughts on long vs short wall placement?
- Woody
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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