Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
He wants to pack the whole shebang up in one of his white boats and bring it all down.
My Take: ADS L1530 and L1590/2 Comparison
- Thread starter JosephH
- Start date
Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
I learned something new today.
I looked at it on the internet thingy and it appeared like any other adjustable crossover. What's so special about it?
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
It had the ability to be custom purchased for use with a few different ADS speakers so there crossovers were slightly different. With the diagnosis of the frequency and slope of this crossover and knowing what speaker it was originally used with the guys will have the ability to copy those specs with all that new digital stuff.
I wonder if @jdurbin1 has the c2000 crossover specs for the different speakers in his ADS archive.
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Finjima
Well-Known Member
Lets talk about how people are using the various electronic pro cross overs for bi-amping and other similar types.
doing so I understand that the woofer portion of the cross over gets bypassed.
Yesterday while I had the cross over out for my 1230 I studied it closely how they used it and how the cross over switch worked and how they had the cross over wired. I studied how the 2nd set of terminals was used and how it was attached to the cross over. hit me over the head if you think I'm stupid. a noob yes but I'm not a moron. what I found is simple in scope and is the same principal in keeping with how the 1230/1530 and 1290/1590 is crossed over. instead of a switch bypassing the woofer portion of the network we would direct wire to the 2nd set of terminals, that's the same thing that's we are doing with the premade bi-amp terminal posts, so instead of using a switch we just direct wire directly to the binding posts using 2 male tabs so all you need to do is unplug from the cross over board and plug directly to the newly installed terminals (keeping the correct polarity) this is a reversible procedure. next you have your electronic cross over hooked up and away you go. miniDSP too.
see that empty space where a second set of terminals go?
yep 710's too
I checked there is quite a few with these terminal plates.
it may be best to drill out the blank tab or make a copy that size (i'm not sure how the blanks are attached)
2 of these per terminal, switch the leads for the woofers to here. except for those speakers with just one woofer, then you just use 1 per post
next is a highly regarded electronic cross over the Rane 22B but this is just one of many crossovers available your choice.
so unless I'm completely out of the park on this one, many models of ADS out there is bi-ampable that use this type of terminal plates (many of the older ones do not have these types of terminal plates)
add 2 amps of your choice.
the one amp is directly coupled to the woofers, the other runs through the mid and tweeter cross over.
this is within scope, its all the same bi-amping this thread is addressing, there is NO wandering off course as far as this thread is concerned,
When I studied the 1230 cross over the Bi-amp switch just direct connects the woofers, bypassing cross over. I'm just skipping that part and going straight to the terminals. its simple. unless we must decouple the woofer part of the cross over but don't see why we would have too, it should be dead and not affecting the other parts
doing so I understand that the woofer portion of the cross over gets bypassed.
Yesterday while I had the cross over out for my 1230 I studied it closely how they used it and how the cross over switch worked and how they had the cross over wired. I studied how the 2nd set of terminals was used and how it was attached to the cross over. hit me over the head if you think I'm stupid. a noob yes but I'm not a moron. what I found is simple in scope and is the same principal in keeping with how the 1230/1530 and 1290/1590 is crossed over. instead of a switch bypassing the woofer portion of the network we would direct wire to the 2nd set of terminals, that's the same thing that's we are doing with the premade bi-amp terminal posts, so instead of using a switch we just direct wire directly to the binding posts using 2 male tabs so all you need to do is unplug from the cross over board and plug directly to the newly installed terminals (keeping the correct polarity) this is a reversible procedure. next you have your electronic cross over hooked up and away you go. miniDSP too.
see that empty space where a second set of terminals go?
yep 710's too
I checked there is quite a few with these terminal plates.
it may be best to drill out the blank tab or make a copy that size (i'm not sure how the blanks are attached)
2 of these per terminal, switch the leads for the woofers to here. except for those speakers with just one woofer, then you just use 1 per post
next is a highly regarded electronic cross over the Rane 22B but this is just one of many crossovers available your choice.
so unless I'm completely out of the park on this one, many models of ADS out there is bi-ampable that use this type of terminal plates (many of the older ones do not have these types of terminal plates)
add 2 amps of your choice.
the one amp is directly coupled to the woofers, the other runs through the mid and tweeter cross over.
this is within scope, its all the same bi-amping this thread is addressing, there is NO wandering off course as far as this thread is concerned,
When I studied the 1230 cross over the Bi-amp switch just direct connects the woofers, bypassing cross over. I'm just skipping that part and going straight to the terminals. its simple. unless we must decouple the woofer part of the cross over but don't see why we would have too, it should be dead and not affecting the other parts
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Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
That sure wouldn't make switching back and forth between regular and biamping mode quick and easy.
It sure would be nice to lay hands on a 1230/1530/1290/1590 schematic, but I'm sure one could figure out the use of an aftermarket switch/switches with the existing PC board to accomplish it.
Dennis Gardner
Jazz Nut
Finjima, you will want to read through this thread that another member started for the purpose of biamping his L1230s. He shows graphs of the pitfalls of phase shift issues that occur when using a crossover other than the ADS C2000 designed for the job.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/in...in-an-unconventional-way-wish-me-luck.723902/
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/in...in-an-unconventional-way-wish-me-luck.723902/
Finjima
Well-Known Member
hey I want a C2000 too, so do all the people who are making do with what they can get their hands on and making substitutions that are less than ideal. that's why some people are working on the miniDSP solution. ( I put it out there we should reverse engineer the c2000)
Dennis that thread was a reverse polarity problem not a phase shift problem that the poster did to fix his wonky readings. plus he was using a crown amp with a built in low pass cross over, (I like the idea, plus he has measurements that show it worked)
As for switching back and forth, well forget the switch, who switch's back and forth anyways? you either do it and leave it and when your done with it you have to break back in and switch it back, no switch in the signal path. My post about this is more about the potential here for more speakers that can be bi-amped. the issues involved with bi-amping should be a separate subject that has it's already known issues, there are many ways to skin a cat they say.
Dennis that thread was a reverse polarity problem not a phase shift problem that the poster did to fix his wonky readings. plus he was using a crown amp with a built in low pass cross over, (I like the idea, plus he has measurements that show it worked)
As for switching back and forth, well forget the switch, who switch's back and forth anyways? you either do it and leave it and when your done with it you have to break back in and switch it back, no switch in the signal path. My post about this is more about the potential here for more speakers that can be bi-amped. the issues involved with bi-amping should be a separate subject that has it's already known issues, there are many ways to skin a cat they say.
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Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
I went back and re-read that.The OP wanted to "BI-WIRE", as opposed to BI-AMPing, The thread showed the pitfalls of NOT using ANY sort of active crossover, other than possibly the one built into a pro amp for the woofers. A more appropriate title for the thread would've been, "Another Cheap Audiophile Fails to Rationalize Stepping Outside the Bounds of Conventional Wisdom." The thread eventually devolved into an argument about rated/actual watts per channel.
If the guy could see/hear his own shortcomings, he had the ability/test equipment to successfully make use of ANY of the non-C2000 crossovers out there
Liefloff
Active Member
For the L1230, the low crossover frequency is 550 Hz. The C2000 manual does NOT state what the L1230 setting (the "C" position) crossover point is. However, in the programmable switches section, it states that the C2000 has a nominal roll-off of -12db per octave and the "Q" can be varied between 0.33 and 0.68. The programmable crossover points are 300,400, 500 and 600 Hz. The C2000 uniformly inverts all outputs. Once Nerdorama and I can get the opportunity to get together. he has the equipment to measure the A,B and C ADS speaker settings.
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Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
That will tell us the info needed to replicate the crossover.
Read the bottom of pg. 8 (lefthand column) in the manual, second and third to last paragraphs... cites some additional benefits from use of the C2000 with the target speaker models, vs. a more off the shelf active crossover solution.
I don't think I have anything specific to the C2000 model-specific crossover points, but FWIW the PA1 appear to have the LP/HP crossover set at 300 Hz which should be then the factory setting for L1290/L1590 that PA1 was designed for use with.
John
I don't think I have anything specific to the C2000 model-specific crossover points, but FWIW the PA1 appear to have the LP/HP crossover set at 300 Hz which should be then the factory setting for L1290/L1590 that PA1 was designed for use with.
John
highfive99
New Member
Hello. I've scoured the net but cannot find the retail price of the 1590/2's in Rosewood. Does anyone recall what they were selling for? I'm a 1530 guy whose best friend is getting a pair of the Rosewood 1590/2's tonight.
Also might anyone know why ADS didn't continue with 2030's?
Thanks!
Also might anyone know why ADS didn't continue with 2030's?
Thanks!
It was either 4 or 600 more than the 1590.
1.Either number is close enough
2. Only matters what they are worth today,
Which is the exact ammount that was paid.
Just enjoy them.
1.Either number is close enough
2. Only matters what they are worth today,
Which is the exact ammount that was paid.
Just enjoy them.
That would jive with the hand written notes on the c2000 scematic regarding the cap removal to set to 300hz for dip switches.(rather it references a bulletin) though not sure exactly who made the notation, i did do this mod to my c2000 and run it with the 1590/2 .
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
The 2030 was discontinued because the ADS line had moved on to new speakers. The 1590 sold for 2100/2200/2600 for black/walnut/rosewood but I don't know about the /2. Data from brochure price lists from back then.
highfive99
New Member
Seems they were pretty much the same as the 1530's. The original owner of my 1530's paid 2200/pr. IIRC. The ADS brochure I have of the 12,15 and 2030's indicated the 1530's had a retail of $945ea. However the brochure was printed just before they even hit the stores (1984 was it?) as it listed availability dates.
My guess is lack of sales of the behemoth 2030's is why ADS discontinued them instead of evolving them into the 2090 but hoping someone might know for sure.
In the documentation it says SAE 4000 or similar? Anyone know what external crossover is similar? The 4000's come up for sale once in a while, and usually not cheap.
