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NAD 6100 nudies - belt replacement?

Discussion in 'Tape' started by 1koolcat, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. 1koolcat

    1koolcat Meal time stare down. Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,659
    Location:
    Twin Cities Metro, MN
    Through some good karma I procured a NAD 6100 cassette deck recently. I cleaned and demagged it and ran several cassettes through it. I also tested the record function and found everything is working quite well.

    Here on AK I found several threads discussing where to purchase replacement cassette deck belts, so I opened my unit to see if I could replace them myself.

    The rewind/fast forward seems weak, so I assumed an old belt was driving that. Boy, was I wrong! :no:

    Inside I find the capstan is belt driven and the ff/rw is direct drive off a separate motor! (see attached pics - the ff/rw motor is at the top of the second photo)

    There are rubber bits in the bottom of the case indicating some wear from the belt (3rd photo). The belt itself seems "loose". I can easily depress it with my finger, yet it has enough grip to drive the capstan with no noticeable wow or flutter! :headscrat

    The way the belt sits, I don't see an easy way of replacing it. It looks like I would have to separate the tape transport completely away from the deck proper. Anyone have any experience doing a belt replacement on this model?

    BTW, I called the local ULTIMATE ELECTRONICS today to ask about NAD cassette repair service only to be told "we don't work on those". I'm disappointed because I've had their "FAST TRAK" service people work on other gear for me.

    Anyone know of other service alternatives in the Twin Cities?
     

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  2. 1koolcat

    1koolcat Meal time stare down. Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,659
    Location:
    Twin Cities Metro, MN
    I'm still looking for a local resource that could assist with belt replacement with this NAD unit.

    I'd like to sell it to a friend who has a large cassette library, but don't want to disappoint him if the belt fails in the near term.

    I've contacted a tech who was advertising repair services on the local CL - he responded by email that he only works on "professional decks".

    I replied back asking him if he knew of a local Twin Cities resource for cassette deck repair. I'll let you know what I find out.

    (I wonder if there is a precedent for an AK thread in which a member has a conversation with him/her self and no one else replies?)
     
  3. Nakdoc

    Nakdoc nakamichi spoken here

    Messages:
    2,938
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Peter,
    You may have to mail it. We are NAD authorized and I have the manuals for your deck. You might check with NAD for referrals. Jeremy Wolfson used to have a shop in your area and did an excellent job.
     
  4. SaSi

    SaSi Seriously Illogical Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,175
    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    Well, Nakdoc might be able to help if you can ship the unit, but as per your description, the play function works well and FF/REW is weak.

    The belt that drives the capstan will probably be better if replaced but it appears to still hold and operate the capstan. But it has nothing to do with FF/REW.

    Weak FF/REW is probably caused by a weakened DC motor (shown in the second picture) or a need for lubrication in the gears or both.

    I would try this: Put in an expendable cassette and start FF and REW in turns. After years of storage, the grease may have turned hard and it is possible that repeated FF/REW cycles will work the grease in the gears and loosen them up.

    Only one word of caution: If FF/REW appears noisy, don't do the workout. It might be that something is clogging the gears and repeated excercise on them might wear them out. It might be that the grease has turned too hard and might ruin the gears - or the motor.
     
  5. Chazb11

    Chazb11 Vintage Human

    Messages:
    2,214
    Location:
    Ocean City, Maryland
    I have a 6240 NAD deck that also seems to RR/FF a little slow.
    Maybe they had a problem with these motors but I think it's more likely they just RR/FF a little more slowly than expected by design.
     
  6. 1koolcat

    1koolcat Meal time stare down. Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,659
    Location:
    Twin Cities Metro, MN
    Thanks for your input everyone. I will take another careful look at the deck in question for old grease, etc.

    I am also going to investigate the possibility of a NAD authorized repair in my area.

    Cheers.
     

     

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  7. eteller

    eteller AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Virginia
    I have a similar 6150c (I think) that i got on ebay, the belts had turned to goo. Still gotta get new ones and install them. Does not look like a fun job.
     
  8. jamesl60

    jamesl60 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I just got a 6100 on ebay that came today with no belt at all, even though the auction said new belt. But ff/rew does nothing also. Can i assume i have a bad ff/rew motor AND no belt or does the secondary ff/rew motor use the belt also. This thing seems to be in very good shape and i am trying to decide whether to send it back.
    thank you
     
  9. jamesl60

    jamesl60 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    correction, ff/rew work fine. Basically my question is how hard and how much for a belt?
     
  10. SaSi

    SaSi Seriously Illogical Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,175
    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    Replacing a belt is not a totaly trivial job, basically because the flywheel needs to be secured in place with a rear bushing, so in order to replace the belt one needs to remove a guard plate that is secured by 2 or more screws.

    Combine that with the fact that the transport needs to be removed from the deck (or the inners of the deck behind the flywheel need to be removed) makes this sound complicated and it is, for the first time you venture in such a job.

    OTOH, flat belts are easy to source, easier to replace as you have a belt to compare size.

    When I went to a local shop to get replacement belt for my Aiwa ADF880 the sales person didn't want any money for the 2 belts I got - they were so cheap.
     
  11. Old_Tech

    Old_Tech Yer-isn't!

    Messages:
    3,903
    RW/FF Speed

    I was given a NAD 6100 yesterday from a co worker. It was new in the box. They never used it much so it was put away and now they have no use for it so I became the lucky new owner.

    I noticed the RW and FF were slower than other decks I have used. It seemed satisfactory though. From some years of storage I noticed the unit was slow to start in RW, FF and play. Some of this may be my old XL-II casettes as well as they made a squeaky sound while turning. Having been recorded on another machine they did not sound as well as I had hoped for. It was an old Aiwa deck I had in 79 -80 which is now in storage for lack of a belt. After some exercising of the unit it seemed to run better although I am going to do some extended inspection of the greased gears for aging and so forth.

    Does anyone know what kind of grease this is if I need to reapply??

    The capstan belt is loose fitting and very pliable. It is not tight as can be on the flywheel. That was done to reduce rumble in the unit I am sure of it.

    One fault ocurred. When one of the Maxell XL-II cr02 tapes finished its rewind the loading door would not open. I had to open the unit and free a cam that had somehow locked onto the drive gear. I don't know what caused this and I will report back if it continues with a new tape.

    Anyways I just wanted to offer my observations on a new unit that has been in storage for twenty years or so. I hope to be using it soon, every day.
    If anyone needs help, please let me know and we can reference this deck as required.
    Thanks everyone.

    ps. I need to buy some new tapes...what should I try as I have not used cassettes in years?
     

     

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  12. fonon

    fonon Active Member

    Messages:
    257
    I have NAD 6100 , but I'm not familiar with NAD tape decks repair. Who could explain the procedure of belt replacement?
    My deck has a problem with RW and FF, too. It works, but very slow. I can't see the remnants of a grease in the gears.
    f.
     
  13. fonon

    fonon Active Member

    Messages:
    257
    No, it's totally trivial job in this unit. No need to replace anything. There is no bearing at the backside of the capstan. The free space between the end of the capstan and the secure plate is enough to insert the belt.
    f.

    PS. I'm looking for information about lubrication of NAD 6100. There is no information about adjustment of mechanical parts in the service manual.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2011
  14. baco99

    baco99 Addicted Member

    Messages:
    8,904
    Location:
    Lawrence, MA
    Resurrecting an old thread.

    Where'd you get the belts from? I have a 6140 which looks like it needs 2 belts, one for the main motor and one for the flywheel (thicker belt).
     
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  15. landsberger

    landsberger Active Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Perth Western Australia
  16. baco99

    baco99 Addicted Member

    Messages:
    8,904
    Location:
    Lawrence, MA

     

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  17. landsberger

    landsberger Active Member

    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    Perth Western Australia
    Just done some research on the net and it appears that the 61xx series of decks use the same transport mechanism, so I'm guessing the belts will be the same for all versions.

    However to be on the safe side, just send an email to the ebay seller and ask before ordering.

    As for fitting the belt see the post from fonon on page 1 of this topic.

    Also you can download a 6100 service manual here:

    http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/nad/6100.shtml

    Best of luck with your deck
    Regards
    John
     
  18. hamsterdam

    hamsterdam AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    569
    Location:
    Lawrence, KS
    Wow, i am wondering where a couple of NAD guys i know are...one lead me to the other guy, who lives in Germany, and there is a company there that manufactures the belts for this. They are the NAD Gurus that i know. One is TheNLowner, and the other one is luckydog, with some numbers after the name. I bought the 6100 Monitor Series almost 2 months ago, good, but slower rr & ff (just an NAD thing), and no play, or raising the head carriage.

    i suspected the flywheel belt, and confirmed it when i opened the case. Same as your problem, to the T. Meanwhile the lady that sold me the "perfectly working" deck, refunded me in 30 mins, and told me to keep it....OK! Both those guys i mentioned guided me thru it.

    So, after 2.5 weeks of waiting for my belt through customs, it arrived from Deutschland. Yes, the flywheel is held from behind by a bushing mounted in the matte silver colored box shaped piece. i was able to shift that piece just far enough to fit the belt between the flywheel and bushing, then spun it until centered, then i fashioned a hook from a bobby pin to pull the belt onto the motor pulley.Rotated it back and forth numerous times...Before any of this, i extracted a black strip of what could pass for licorice gum.

    There was trial and error, but u have the same shop manual pdf link that i got mine from, and it led me thru most of it...some i just had to go with gut. i let the door mech get loose, which made it take about 30 mins more than it should have...20 of that using the hook to bring the push out spring up to its slot in the door. :p If there is a way to search for my 6100 posts, give it a go, i will also look.

    i also do want to speak up for NAD. Their high quality Amps are more known here, but these cassette decks are VERY well known in Europe, especially Netherlands and Germany. It has HQX, like most everything else, but if a monitor series, it also has DynEQ by Tandberg inside...these aren't playing around decks, NAD only had one higher up than this beauty. ii sorta knew what to expect of this one, as another member sold me an NAD 602 for peanuts, and it was staggering for its level...in fact, i kept the 602 recording of my Weezer Blue Album, rather than re-dubbing it after i repaired my 6100, and the 6100 is recording at a level that i never fully expected.

    Since repairing it, i've recorded 14 of my LPs without a dropout, or anything but brilliant sound that is almost what you would expect from a high end Nak, and i'm not exaggerating. It is a refreshing surprise...and working remote!

    Best of Luck,

    —dave
     
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  19. Merlot1970

    Merlot1970 New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Mermentau, Lousiana USA
    I've changed the belts on my NAD 6100. The belts were purchased at Belts Plus store, locally. Get you a pointed surgical tool that's bent at the end, works perfect for manipulating belts.

    Murnel
     
  20. dusxpress

    dusxpress New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    The Hague, Netherlands
    This is totally weird to me: NAD 613, whose mechanism looks the same as seen on the photos presented at the beginning of this thread, with 2 motors and belt driven capstan, worked perfectly (and was looking like new when I purchased it for 5 EUR in a local thrift store /called Kringloop here in The Netherlands/, this year). I started to use my old collection of cassettes, and it's been in use like half a year occasionally. Then I discovered that the 16 years old BOSE cassette player in my car works absolutely fine, and I started to use it also, every day. Then I decided to record some of the very old 78 vinyls that were sitting for years out of use waiting for the moment to be thrown away, found new Shure M78, put it on an old Dual and recorded one side on a brand new Maxell cassette. Then I turned the cassette to start recording the other side, but just after I did this and attempted to use the cassette for the first time on that side, it only produced the rattling sound, and refused to start. The capstan obviously got engaged, as little piece of tape was moved before it will automatically disengage. Neither the FF or RW were working any more, slightly different noise would be heard when those would be attempted, and then the automatic stop will disengage everything. Tape won't move in either direction if FF or RW would be attempted (on any cassette, cassettes are good).

    So I said to myself, ok, it's probably the belt and NAD's final moment is here. But I decided to at least have a look, opened it for the first time and saw everything sitting nice inside, capstan belt not loose, no dirt of any kind.

    I attempted few times to start it, saw the capstan engaging and disengaging, listened to the noises but could not really see anything wrong.

    Then I overturned the deck upside down, and notice the change of the quality of that noise on starting attempts, depending on the position of the deck, and no noise would be heard, or something very silent, if the complete deck would be positioned upside-down.

    Then I gave it a few mild kicks on the housing, and also shook it a bit with both hands while the deck was in the air, because I noticed that the quality of the rattling sound was strongly dependant on the position of the deck. Then, when the deck was in full vertical position i.e. the front end facing up and in a horizontal position, it started to FF and Play with no problem. RW was still the same, no work, just a second of rattling (well not real rattling, more like a motor is attempted to work normally and some gears should be engaged and are engaged for that second, and not in any excessive volume, and then the autostop will shut everything off).

    I tried all other positions of the complete deck, but it ill work only in this position. RW never showed any kind of will to get out of its problem.

    I concluded that the problem is related to the moment when I turned the cassette to record the other side, after the door was closed, and may be related to some mechanical interference with the mechanism inside. I tried to shake it and kick it but it is always the same, Play and FF work fine in vertical position, RW not working.

    Does it make sense / is there anything special one should take care of, if attempted to remove the complete mechanism in order to just visually inspect it from the other side? I assume there may be some catch when it comes to disconnecting the cassette door. I don't like to throw things, especially when they are not worn out, and would like to continue to use my NAD - has anyone ever had any similar experience, what could be the cause of this strange problem?
     

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    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016

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