NAD C-356BEE- Ohhhhh...Emmmmm...Geeeeee

Are you guys sure the amp wasn't burning in more?
I have a hard time believing in the value of these jumpers, please no offense.
They are only conducting (2) parts of the circuit for each channel, one of them being chassis ground (outer conductor) which is routed internally on the amplifier's chassis.
The other (the center conductor) has such a short run that it is hard to imagine any decent solid core conductor material would be subjected to any current loss, voltage drop or noise.

I used those jumpers with an NAD C326BEE and C325BEE and they really do make a difference.
 
I still have the old jumpers and I can definitely tell you there is an audible difference between both. (After some A/B test with a friend)
 
Congratulations Avanti, the BIG thing is that you love the sound and that's where it's at! By the way, is your 60' Avanti still running?:thmbsp:
 
Congratulations on finding a jaw-dropping upgrade. Always a great experience! :thbmsp:


Without intending to inflame any arguments about vintage vs modern (both can be excellent), I find that mostly I seem to settle on the in-between stuff. Source and speakers in my main system are from the 80s, and amplification from the 90s. We usually associate the 80s with the rise of BPC rubbish, but in Japan they continued to develop and improve high-end gear for the domestic market. The TOTL Counterpoint pieces from just before the company's demise in the 90s were excellent. I couldn't have afforded the $25K price tag on my preamp back then, nor the even higher price tag for anything comparable new, but was able to get one used for something within my budget. And because it is not so old, it doesn't suffer from the age deterioration that a lot of the 70s gear shows.

I have both older gear and newer gear, but the "sweet spot" for the best gear overall seems to fall in the mid-80s to -90s era, at least for me. But that is only for the very high-end stuff, and only because I can't afford that top tier in new gear. (Have you priced stuff like Halcro or Magico lately?)

Of course, in the digital realm stuff just keeps getting both better and cheaper, so newer is usually significantly better. An Oppo 105, for example, makes an excellent multi disc player and DAC --plus it will play truly superb video stuff! Sonically, a GT-CD1 will sound a little better on redbook CDs, but it's hard to find any other vintage players that sound as good, and it won't play anything else but redbook. Also, headphones --and the whole genre of headphone amplifiers-- keep on improving (although also going up in price at the top end, reflecting the improvements).

It's foolish to become too entrenched in either "camp" - vintage or modern. Both offer different advantages and disadvantages, and sometimes the "in between" stuff or a mixture of old and new can offer the best of both worlds.
 
Congratulations on finding a jaw-dropping upgrade. Always a great experience! :thbmsp:


Without intending to inflame any arguments about vintage vs modern (both can be excellent), I find that mostly I seem to settle on the in-between stuff. Source and speakers in my main system are from the 80s, and amplification from the 90s. We usually associate the 80s with the rise of BPC rubbish, but in Japan they continued to develop and improve high-end gear for the domestic market. The TOTL Counterpoint pieces from just before the company's demise in the 90s were excellent. I couldn't have afforded the $25K price tag on my preamp back then, nor the even higher price tag for anything comparable new, but was able to get one used for something within my budget. And because it is not so old, it doesn't suffer from the age deterioration that a lot of the 70s gear shows.

I have both older gear and newer gear, but the "sweet spot" for the best gear overall seems to fall in the mid-80s to -90s era, at least for me. But that is only for the very high-end stuff, and only because I can't afford that top tier in new gear. (Have you priced stuff like Halcro or Magico lately?)

Of course, in the digital realm stuff just keeps getting both better and cheaper, so newer is usually significantly better. An Oppo 105, for example, makes an excellent multi disc player and DAC --plus it will play truly superb video stuff! Sonically, a GT-CD1 will sound a little better on redbook CDs, but it's hard to find any other vintage players that sound as good, and it won't play anything else but redbook. Also, headphones --and the whole genre of headphone amplifiers-- keep on improving (although also going up in price at the top end, reflecting the improvements).

It's foolish to become too entrenched in either "camp" - vintage or modern. Both offer different advantages and disadvantages, and sometimes the "in between" stuff or a mixture of old and new can offer the best of both worlds.
Well said and I agree completely. I am in the "show me" camp. I hear with my own ears and decide how I like the sound- regardless of vintage vs. new, etc.
But- because I was having issues with the sound of my system I decided to "go new" because I wanted to rule out sound quality issues based on age of the components, not their initial quality when new. I wanted to take the age factor out of the equation.
I agree with your golden age time frame assumption too- my old Sony ES amplifier was made towards the tail end of that era and I am having regrets that I sold it. Your quest for high end semi-vintage happened at just the right time or so it seems. The market seems kind of inflated lately.
 
Congratulations Avanti, the BIG thing is that you love the sound and that's where it's at! By the way, is your 60' Avanti still running?:thmbsp:
Thanks, and yes it's still running- unfortunately it's a refrigerator, not a car!
 
.............is your 60' Avanti still running?:thmbsp:

Thanks, and yes it's still running- unfortunately it's a refrigerator, not a car!

Well, you'd better catch it before it gets away!

..........Your quest for high end semi-vintage happened at just the right time or so it seems. The market seems kind of inflated lately.

Time marches on. The oldies radio station is playing stuff from the '80s and even early '90s, the entire political spectrum seems to have moved so that someone who would have been considered a moderate 40 years ago would definitely be to one side now, and the sweet spot for stereo gear has also shown itself to be a moving target.

There is still gear made inexpensive by its lack of the latest technology and the fact that it doesn't yet have the vintage cachet that appeals to those collectors. It's just that now, a 10-20 year old piece was made between 1994 and 2004 instead of 1984 to 1994.

I've mined that vein myself to a small extent when I got the ProLogic receivers in my sig line. Today, only a few years later, Dolby Digital receivers that lack HDMI connections could be added to the sweet spot list.
 
Update 3/17/2014.
After a good solid week of running the NAD C-356 is definitely sounding "warmer" and more bass heavy. Not objectionable, but noticeable. It also seems to be a little louder in the upper midrange as well, and high frequency definition and extension is still present but a little smoother. All steps in a positive direction except for the upper midrange which was becoming slightly harsh and glaring. Note, this is not the amplifier's fault- it is probably becoming more accurate and the brightness of the room combined with the neutrality of the speakers is showing up as they should.
I added in my Alto dual channel 31-band EQ, ran some RTA curves and sure enough 800Hz to 3KHz was indeed a little strong. Note- not nearly as strong as the response of my previous Marantz / Sony ES combo. A slight amount of attenuation in those bands to achieve a smooth, slightly downward slope post 2Khz and all is well- in fact better than ever.
Running through an assortment of CDs I noticed one that had some heavy sustained acoustic bass passages.
Even at higher volume, neither the C-356 nor the PSB T-6s showed any signs of strain reproducing those low, sustained, powerful bass notes. No BS here- it sounded nearly identical to a demo setup that I heard with a McIntosh 250 watt per channel integrated playing through Theil floorstanders!
I was blown away at how my modest system compared to that one at literally 10X the price.
 
Very heartening to see so much enthusiasm for this amp - stark contrast to the elitism I've had to endure on another forum this past week. We've all had to endure the endless bile erupting from certain dark corners of this hobby - suffice it to say that nothing mass-manufactured will ever be good enough for these guys. :sigh:

Thanks for keeping it real, guys. :thmbsp:
 
Avanti1960 - Very glad that you are having such a good experience with the amp. I have been totally enjoying my C 326BEEE for almost three years now and I have found it to be a very sweet piece, for sure. A real keeper.

Ranch22 - I agree. I would love to see some NAD silver face gear. Ignoring the "slimming effect" of black, some shiny faces would certainly brighten my listening room.

Arkay - as usual, you have it right. No need to park in a particular camp. Why not play what you enjoy? My acoustic and symphonic system has components from the '70s, '80s, '90s and '00s and they work together quite well. "Vat's not to like?", as my old tailor used to say. :thmbsp:
 
Budget maybe but I was looking at amplifiers up to 2K and speakers up to 2.5K / pair and found no reason to spend that much based on extensive listening. For example, KEF R500. Sounded smooth and nice but had meager bass impact and low end extension vs. the PSB. PSB Imagine same deal. Expensive boutique bookshelf / stand mounts ditto.
 
Budget maybe but I was looking at amplifiers up to 2K and speakers up to 2.5K / pair and found no reason to spend that much based on extensive listening. For example, KEF R500. Sounded smooth and nice but had meager bass impact and low end extension vs. the PSB. PSB Imagine same deal. Expensive boutique bookshelf / stand mounts ditto.

I agree. I definitely prefer PSB to KEF R Series. Soooo clean....
 
Thanks for the update Avanti1960! I too agree the low end of the C356BEE is fantastic, depending on source music and how it was mixed, is how it comes across, sometimes it digs too deep but that is fine. If you are running smaller standmounts it works nicely in the low end to fill the room.

A good solid week so you are about 100 hours into it? If so it will change more in another 2-300 hours.

Enjoy!
 
I also hear the upper midrange harshness in 356 but IMO it is easily ameliorated if partnered with the right source and speakers. Vintage speakers seem to be a good match, especially if they sport paper drivers or silk tweeters or if they have a rich balance. My KEF 103.2 have never sounded better driven by any other amp. OTOH if you can get hold of a C375BEE you would circumvent these issues along with having a deeper and more well defined low end which is the 356’s other weakness.
 
Just wanted to mention a very close cousin: the C352 is a fantastic amp for those searching for a solid NAD.
The What Hi-Fi review (from 2004) gets all the basics and offers a great description. Theirs is a C352T, but that just indicates the ”titanium” finish, all else being the same. Love mine, and it definitely holds its own with CA1010, AU717, etc......and I love those, too! The 352 is a little more Spartan in appearance
than the 356BEE (if that is possible) but it is a fantastic amp sound wise: it does not have the port on the rear for your choice of DAC or Phono pre. I use an outboard NAD phono preamp with mine, and am very pleased. Anyway, just thought I’d mention it because the 356BEE doesn’t show up every day (or maybe every month?) so one of these might be a good alternative. I started out with a 3020B in 1980 ; )
 
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