Need advice about when/if to replace stylus

[Kronius]

I bought my first turntable in June 2016--it was a Rega Planer 2016. For my stylus, I purchased an Audio Technica AT-OC9ML/II Dual Moving MicroCoil Cartridge. I also purchased a VPI HW 6.5 record cleaning machine.

I have not replaced my stylus since I bought it in June 2016. Since that time, I would say it's gotten fairly regular use. I'd say I have played an average of 3-4 albums per week since then. With VERY few exceptions, before I play a record, I clean it on my VPI.

Around July 2017, I started researching how regularly a stylus should be replaced. I came across a post somewhere that said they have never replaced their stylus after years and years (decades maybe) because they clean their stylus regularly. At that point, I started cleaning my stylus every couple of albums using Mobile Fidelity's stylus cleaning fluid and brush. Also, I continue to clean each record with my VPI before I play it.

So, I have a few questions:

1) Is it the people's experience that regularly cleaning a stylus extends its life, and if so, for how long?

2) If a stylus' life can be extended indefinitely through regular cleaning, should I be concerned about the fact that I wasn't cleaning it for about a year?

I'm also open to upgrading my stylus if anyone has any suggestions.

 

[Pio1980]

There are some record surface and stylus treatments that claim to help reduce stylus tip wear, with some pertinent AK threads with testimonials. I've regularly used both but it's too soon to say that these measures are beneficial for tip wear. Clean records are definitely good practice.
Otherwise, it's a deterioration in "clean" sound, beginning in the inside cut and over time moving outward on the record play. Also, an increase in fuzz accumulating on the tip from clean records during play.

 

[pyoung272]

I cannot answer your questions however I have a few comments. I feel it is not necessary to clean your records on your VPI prior to every playing. I have a nitty gritty machine and I only clean a record once on the NG (I also put the record in a brand new sleeve). Then before each playing I just clean the record with a carbon fiber brush. After the record is played, I again clean the record with the CB brush to remove any dust that may have been attracted to the record while playing. Then the record goes directly back into the sleeve.

As to cleaning the stylus, I clean with a product similar to your stylus cleaner however I clean the stylus after each side of a record is played.

 

[restorer-john]

I'm yet to hear the effects of a worn diamond.

Worn out/dried out, or collapsed suspensions, bent cantilevers, and diamonds ripped right off- sure, but as long as your stylus is clean and only a year or so old, I wouldn't be in the least concerned.

 

[Pio1980]

Looks like ca 2-3 hrs/week for you on a cart I also use, but infrequently for my best sounding records as my best player setup.
If the inner cuts on your good albums sound as clean and crystal clear as always, I wouldn't worry. As your lomc has a "fixed" nonreplaceable stylus, retipping the stylus on the cart by an expert or replacement of the cart is the only remedy for a worn tip.

 

[Pio1980]

I'm yet to hear the effects of a worn diamond.

Worn out/dried out, or collapsed suspensions, bent cantilevers, and diamonds ripped right off- sure, but as long as your stylus is clean and only a year or so old, I wouldn't be in the least concerned.

Heard it many times in my own systems, and memorably once on an expensive lomc at an audio boutique that shall remain unnamed. I suspect tobacco smoke contributed to my barracks systems' stylus wear, lots of hours vs replacement cost on the other.

 

[c_dk]

I believe it was in 1982 or 83 when Audio Technica released the first microridge stylus on their AT32 moving coil cartridge.

By that time I had over 4 years experience examining worn styli daily via our shops Wild M5a micro scope. While examining the various exotic diamond cuts like a Shibata was difficult nothing was harder to measure than the microridge type.

If you look at the pictures of the diamond shape the ridges and very small scaning radii can be seen. What we would see with these deep in the groove designs is it picking up more and more gunk from the bottom of the groove as it's width decreased and it rode even lower in the groove. Eventually as the hours piled up the diamond would bottom out in the groove, the distortion and mistracking would climb and record damage would be imminent. The diamond would literally rattle in the groove. This will happen with fine lines, hyper elliptical , Shibata and any other of the marketing names for these "exotic" styli. When the groove opens up to create a wider "dale" it loses contact with the grove wall and of coarse as it gets pinched to rise up with the "hill" part of it's complex motion phase issues with it's corresponding lateral motions will also increase but I seriously doubt anyone could hear this issue.

We expected our clients to log 10-20 hours a week of record playing, we would mail them a reminder to have their stylus examined every 6 months and expect to replace their stylus sometime between 12 and 18 months.

 

[Pio1980]

I believe it was in 1982 or 83 when Audio Technica released the first microridge stylus on their AT32 moving coil cartridge.

By that time I had over 4 years experience examining worn styli daily via our shops Wild M5a micro scope. While examining the various exotic diamond cuts like a Shibata was difficult nothing was harder to measure than the microridge type.

If you look at the pictures of the diamond shape the ridges and very small scaning radii can be seen. What we would see with these deep in the groove designs is it picking up more and more gunk from the bottom of the groove as it's width decreased and it rode even lower in the groove. Eventually as the hours piled up the diamond would bottom out in the groove, the distortion and mistracking would climb and record damage would be imminent. The diamond would literally rattle in the groove. This will happen with fine lines, hyper elliptical , Shibata and any other of the marketing names for these "exotic" styli. When the groove opens up to create a wider "dale" it loses contact with the grove wall and of coarse as it gets pinched to rise up with the "hill" part of it's complex motion phase issues with it's corresponding lateral motions will also increase but I seriously doubt anyone could hear this issue.

We expected our clients to log 10-20 hours a week of record playing, we would mail them a reminder to have their stylus examined every 6 months and expect to replace their stylus sometime between 12 and 18 months.

Coarser blunter profiles like spherical and elliptical tips with larger linear scanning patch areas will likely produce audible tracing distortion earlier than the exotics on crowded higher frequency modulations toward the inner groove area of the record. The sharp edge of the resulting wear patch on the tip is also more likely to cut the vinyl in the transitions, shaving microribbons off the groove wall, the more pronouced edge from continuing tip wear producing further damage faster.

 

[jrtrent]

1) Is it the people's experience that regularly cleaning a stylus extends its life, and if so, for how long?

2) If a stylus' life can be extended indefinitely through regular cleaning, should I be concerned about the fact that I wasn't cleaning it for about a year?

AT suggests a stylus life of 1000 hours for their MicroLine stylus, which is the kind of stylus you have on your cartridge. My experience is that the manufacturer's suggested hours of service is pretty accurate when playing clean records; playing dirty records could reduce that life, but playing clean records doesn't extend it. I have no experience with products purporting to extend stylus life, such as STYLAST from The Last Factory. I use an M97xE cartridge on my Rega RP3, and at $59 for a replacement stylus, I don't get terribly concerned about wringing every last hour of life out of it. I no longer have a local Shure dealer to check my stylus's condition, so I try to play it safe and just replace it every 500 hours, about every 9 months at my current level of usage.

Stylus cleaning, like record cleaning, is a subject with many conflicting opinions. Rega implies you can just blow off any dust when you see it adhering to the stylus or stylus shank. Their turntable manual has this somewhat minimalist advice about record/stylus cleaning:

"If you keep your records stored in their sleeves, avoid touching the playing surfaces and keep all water and fluids away, cleaning should not be necessary. Do not worry about visible dust on the record surface, this is brushed aside by the stylus during play. Dust collected on the stylus can be easily blown away. In general, record cleaning is overdone and one should not believe all the claims made by record cleaner manufacturers."

I don't see how you could have done any harm to your stylus by not cleaning it for a couple hundred hours.

At present, my own practice is to clean any used record I buy with a Nitty Gritty record cleaner, then follow Rega's advice for keeping it that way. For the stylus, I use a soft brush that came with a Sumiko cartridge, with no liquids/chemicals, after every record side and occasionally give the stylus a few scrapes with the Linn green sandpaper. That's probably overkill, but it's simple to do, and, when I still had a local Shure dealer, he said my styli always looked clean whenever I took one in for microscopic examination, so I figure why quit doing something that works.

 

[Pio1980]

LAST provides the only brush I'll recommend, other than the Dishwasher SC-1, used back to front.

 

[c_dk]

Certainly looking at the various exotic diamond cuts under a microscope will instill marvel at the technical achievement of such microscopic work. Certainly the advertising hyperbole trumpeting these marvels are clear attempts to recoup the cost of such exotic manufacuring.

They might even sound better!

However the design of the record groove/ stylus interface was based on 1950s available SOTA.....the high frequency groove modulations were intended to excite a .7 mil conical but the need for a tighter scaning radius was fueled by high frequency Quad encoding not some change in standard stereo LP production.

The great sound available from very low mass diamond eliptical cuts (rectangular shank vs square shank) come to mind as well as outstanding conical cuts like used in some of the EMT and Denon Moving coils. These outstanding sounding cartridges make me pause in celebrating a design just because of the cut of the diamond.

When we first compared in the AT32 MC, the AT24 when they were released in the early 80s, to our at that time reference standards, the AKG P8es, Ortofon Mc20 and M20super, the NAD moving coil, as well as the Shure VM15 4 or 5, I can not say their superiority was due to the diamond shape, or fancy cantilever, but most likely a holistic sum greater than all the individual parts.

Certainly in later evaluations these designs were surpassed by newer designs that may or may not have used exotic diamond cuts.

It certainly was easier to measure actual stylus wear with the less complicated diamonds and of coarse that these new cartridges sounded better was a good thing also.

With it so hard to measure wear even to one who measured 3 or 4 styli daily when fully engaged in daily turntable setup, keeping track of time used is your last resort....If you hear it you could easily be damaging the vinyl.

 

[Kronius]

Thanks to all the great replies. I wish I'd bookmarked the message I referred to in my original post for reference.

Basically, the author noted that records are made of vinyl, which is a rather soft substance, and a stylus is made of diamond, one of the hardest materials in the Universe. His theory was that any physical irregularities that appear on a stylus after use is not a result of the diamond wearing out or breaking down from friction, but rather the accumulation of dirt on the tip of the stylus that hardens over time. He claimed to have used the same stylus for years and years, and that, by cleaning his stylus regularly, he prevented this accumulation of dirt and maintained the original shape of the stylus despite going well beyond the life span recommended by the manufacturer. I believe he might have even claimed to have inspected his stylus under a microscope, but I'm not sure.

 

[c_dk]

Well I do have a microscope built up with specific parts from the Wild Heerberg catalog specifcally to examine phonograph stylus for wear. I also in the past have posted in this forum pictures of worn styli for all to see.

No amount of mythical cleaning will restore the observed worn surfaces of the diamond.

 

[Kronius]

Well I do have a microscope built up with specific parts from the Wild Heerberg catalog specifcally to examine phonograph stylus for wear. I also in the past have posted in this forum pictures of worn styli for all to see.

No amount of mythical cleaning will restore the observed worn surfaces of the diamond.

That's very helpful, thanks. I'll stick to the manufacturer's recommendations then.

 

[DustyOldPile]

I have not replaced my stylus since I bought it in June 2016. Since that time, I would say it's gotten fairly regular use. I'd say I have played an average of 3-4 albums per week since then. With VERY few exceptions, before I play a record, I clean it on my VPI.

You do know that the stylus on moving coil cartridges is NOT replaceable by the user? You can have it retipped by sending it out somewhere, or get a new cartridge. That's about it for your choices, unlike a moving magnet cartridge.

 

[Kronius]

You do know that the stylus on moving coil cartridges is NOT replaceable by the user? You can have it retipped by sending it out somewhere, or get a new cartridge. That's about it for your choices, unlike a moving magnet cartridge.

Yes, I was aware of that when I made the purchase.

 

[jrtrent]

Sticking to the manufacturer's recommendations sounds like a good idea. You mentioned earlier that you were researching how regularly a stylus should be replaced, and that the no-wear stylus information was from a post, I presume in an audio forum of some sort. What other sources of information on stylus replacement did you find in your research? What did you learn from manufacturers, magazine articles, audio dealers, books, and so on? Was that post a unique experience, or had others found the same thing?

My own research lends great weight to the information given by the manufacturers with respect to stylus life, and in terms of practical experience, different local dealers have shown me with a microscope the difference between my own used but clean stylus and a brand new replacement stylus, and I was certainly convinced that wear to the diamond had taken place.

How have you been liking the AT-OC9ML/II cartridge? Do you expect to get another once yours is worn out or are you thinking about trying something else?

 

[Kronius]

[...]
What other sources of information on stylus replacement did you find in your research? What did you learn from manufacturers, magazine articles, audio dealers, books, and so on? Was that post a unique experience, or had others found the same thing?
[...]
How have you been liking the AT-OC9ML/II cartridge? Do you expect to get another once yours is worn out or are you thinking about trying something else?

My research tends to be limited to reading audiophile message boards like this one.

I took another look at my records and I think I'm closer to about 300 hours of use. I have liked my cartridge quite a bit, but this is my first turntable and first cartridge, so I don't have a lot to compare it to. I was planning on sticking with the AT-OC9ML/II if and when it needed replacement unless there was an obvious upgrade at a comparable price.

I digitize all my records and primarily listen to the digitized versions. Therefore I'm not too concerned about the replacement cost of the cartridge because I don't expect it to get heavy use now that I have basically digitized my entire collection. I did have some issues early on that I need to go back and fix and of course I will be getting new records all the time.

 

[Kronius]

How have you been liking the AT-OC9ML/II cartridge? Do you expect to get another once yours is worn out or are you thinking about trying something else?

My only concern with the AT-OC9ML/II is that it recommends an impedance of 20 ohms and my pre-amp only goes down to 30 ohms (Musical Surroundings Phenomena II+). I could not find a pre-amp that went down to 20 ohms. I'm sure they exist, but probably not in my price range.

 

[Pio1980]

My only concern with the AT-OC9ML/II is that it recommends an impedance of 20 ohms and my pre-amp only goes down to 30 ohms (Musical Surroundings Phenomena II+). I could not find a pre-amp that went down to 20 ohms. I'm sure they exist, but probably not in my price range.

I wouldn't worry about a small discrepancy. I liked the OC-9-II well enough to get a spare when they were on sale, it'll likely be the best I'll ever run here.