Need advice on preamp and rig pls

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by bdmcn71, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. bdmcn71

    bdmcn71 New Member

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    Running a Sansui 9090 DB, Thorens 165 with V15Vx cart, into JBL L100 Century.
    I recently bought a Pro-ject Phono box MM. At first, I was pleased with the volume boost and music sounded different ...

    So I’ve been on a MFSL kick lately and was playing Beck’s Sea Change. And there it was once again — crackle and crispies. It seems ever since I got the preamp, records are full of crackle! Know that I had just cleaned Beck album with spin cleaner. and used zerostat gun.

    So tonight I had had enough ... was the preamp producing a boosted, yet more artificial sound? I unhooked the preamp and tested my system using original built-in. I must say it seems more real. I would sacrifice a volume boost for fewer crackles and noise.

    Any thoughts??? Am I an idiot for not liking the cheapo preamp? Any validity to preamp producing more crackles?

    thanks!
     

     

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  2. musichal

    musichal poet emeritus Subscriber

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    I guess you've tried different interconnects? I'm thinking of poor connection somewhere.
     
  3. bdmcn71

    bdmcn71 New Member

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    not tried that. some albums are dead quiet, while other are noisy.

    is there a chance that my sansui phono stage would sound better than using a preamp?

    would you recommend buying new wires? or do you think it’s a ground wire issue?

    thanks
     
  4. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    Some cartridges can be more sensitive to surface noise and that's not a good trait.

    No

    Perfectly normal

    Yes you can enjoy the sound of either or both.
     
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  5. bdmcn71

    bdmcn71 New Member

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    so if I use my preamp and get more crackle, and unhook it, same album, and don’t hear as much crackle... that’s my cart?!
     
  6. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    The cartridge and vinyl, the preamp is just amplifying what's there. It's just not as notable at a lower gain for your specific hearing.



    What is this added volume?

    Is the Pro-ject Phono box MM plugged into a AUX input?
     

     

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  7. century tek

    century tek Super Member

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    I hope you're not connecting your separate phono preamp to the phono inputs on your Sansui??
     
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  8. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    That's what I was getting at.

    Technical data
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MM

    Input impedance 47kohms/120pF
    Gain 40dB
    Output voltage 500mV/1kHz at 5mV/1kHz
    Noise floor 88dB (A weighted)
    THD <0,04%
    Input 1 pair RCA/phono sockets
    Line-level output 1 pair RCA/phono sockets
    Outboard power supply 18V/500mA DC, suitable for your country's mains supply
    Power consumption:20mA DC
    Dimensions W x H x D 107 x 30 x 75mm
    Weight 280g without power supply

    .............................
     
  9. bdmcn71

    bdmcn71 New Member

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    no , aux.
    the preamp does boost volume level. but i feel like it produces a more shrill sound. not as natural as when i just go straight to sansui.
     
  10. bdmcn71

    bdmcn71 New Member

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    So am I missing out on detail without preamp? tx
     
  11. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    What input do you have Project plugged into your 9090?
     

     

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  12. bdmcn71

    bdmcn71 New Member

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  13. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    Well I was just trying to see if you where hooking stuff up wrong and doubling gain.

    As far a surface noise goes it can be one or more things, dirt, static, condition and quality of the vinyl mix and pressing.

    You have a spin clean, but not all washing methods are the same either some are better than others. As well as the chemicals, water and how we go about the cleaning and drying. If you play a record before it's thoroughly dried it can make noise. If your drying the records with a cloth it can negate the wash by adding wet lint in the grooves. Also depending on the material the rag is made of can add static to the record like polyester. Just like when you rub a balloon in your hair, drag your rubber shoes on the carpet your making static electricity.

    As far as new records I myself never clean them first unless they have a ton of paper crap all over them. As far as your MFSL records and really all new records the grooves need to get polished with some plays before judging them.

    IMG_2051.JPG IMG_2052.JPG IMG_2053.JPG

    Now all cartridges do not act or perform the same on playback. Some cartridges and or stylus will pick up a lot of surface noise when others will suppress it all the while giving very high detail of the music. Different stylus profiles do better than others as well as cartridge design.

    It looks like your stepping up and trying to use good gear and records. I always say when it comes to record playback it all starts where the stylus meets the groove. So you don't want to skimp on a cartridge or the records you buy. A lot of people have a hard time stepping into higher dollar cartridges, it's so small and if they have an extra $300-$400 and up they want to see a big piece of equipment. A cartridge can make or break the sound quality of the whole system in vinyl playback.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
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  14. sqlsavior

    sqlsavior AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I think it is entirely possible that your new phono preamp leans toward the edgy side of bright, while your old one is smoother, bordering on dark, due to aged capacitors. Whether your new one is actually preserving more detail, or just emphasizing it unpleasantly, may be difficult to judge.
     
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  15. JP

    JP 7480 74111110101115

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    Actually yes. I don't know about yours specifically, but if there's not enough headroom the transient from a pop can cause blocking distortion which makes it far more pronounced. Also more prominent with MM types is the change in loading - this will move damping and resonance around which can make pops and clicks more pronounced.
     
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  16. Blue Shadow

    Blue Shadow I gotta get me a new title

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    It's the speakers.

    sorry couldn't resist.

    You are hearing the difference in the phono stages and this difference is something you can look forward to evaluating with each change in the system. I don't know about the rice krispies other than some cartridges have more than others.
     
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  17. hiFi DAD

    hiFi DAD AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I would agree.

    From what i gather, the problem only occurs when certain records are played. From the OPs discription it doesn’t sound like a random occurrence and the issue is repeatable. This bit of info should rule out everything else and suggest that the media is the issue. Sounds to me like the pro-ject is doing it’s job. You should take that album to someone else’s place or a local hifi shop and try it on another system just to verify.
     
  18. bdmcn71

    bdmcn71 New Member

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    So I unhooked the preamp for good. It was producing a sound too hot for me. Now things are smooth and warm again, not amplified and pumped up on both ends. I don’t mind having the volune level a bit lower... it will never match the aux level output.
     
  19. triode17

    triode17 Super Member

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    It could also be the capacitive loading. The Pro-Ject pre. has 120pF on the input but that may not be enough for your cartridge. What is the cap. spec. for the cart?
     
  20. Nixxuz

    Nixxuz AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    It's just a "hot" preamp. Some sound bright like that, some are more rolled off. And some vinyl is just noisy. When making analog stuff that really is just dragging a rock across plastic, you can't reasonably expect no variation in the pressings. Hell, it could even be the quality of the water the pressing plant uses to wash the discs before packaging. Or the amount of dust in the room where they cut the sleeves.
     

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