Need help improving my audio setup

H0UND

New Member
Hey!
I hope this is the right section for this, if not i apologize. I'm in need of some guidance concerning my audio setup.
I've had my current setup for a few years now and im mostly pleased with it. I know it's beginner stuff, but it was sold in a bundle and i got a good deal.
But in a not so distant future i would like to improve my audio setup since i find myself listening more and more to music.
Basically, in my current setup, what should i change first? And what should i change it to?
I've asked a friend of mine that is somewhat audio savvy, but not like most of the people here it seems. He said the speakers.
I asked at my local audio store, he said i should change basically everything. Well, maybe he's right. But i don't trust him, he just want to make a sale.

This is what i use

Speakers:
JBL Studio 280
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Hi-Fi-Ho...qid=1486410895&sr=1-1&keywords=JBL+Studio+280

Amp:
Marantz PM5005
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Marantz-PM...qid=1486410824&sr=1-1&keywords=Marantz+PM5005

Turntable:
Dual CS 435-1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...4&creativeASIN=B000SN82T0&smid=A22AQEO4G9KSH0

CD Player:
Marantz CD5005
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Marantz-CD...qid=1486410955&sr=1-1&keywords=Marantz+CD5005

Thanks for any anwser!
 
You have a decent set up. Depends on what you are trying to do. If 2 channel, then I suggest getting separates. I started my upgrade path with Emotiva gear. Bang for the buck, good stuff, but IMHO marginally better than what you have. I ended up with a reconditioned Audible Illusions Modulus 3A preamp and a used ( but with warranty) Pass Labs X250 amplifier. Those 2 items cost about 3700.00. I also went with a Music Hall 9.1 turntable. As to the CD player, you have a decent player. Really not worth upgrading if you are happy with it. I have the Emotiva ERC3 and love it. The Music Hall turntable used to be a solid class B turntable on Stereophile by the way. . I also like the Rega P6 for the money. Finally, I like used speakers. If you are careful you can really get a deal. The brands are up to you. Just find what you like
 
Welcome to AK, H0UND. I'm going to "ditto" trinshman's reply in regard to separate preamp and amp sources versus a receiver. I listened to music via all-in-one systems or receivers up until last July when my wife unexpectedly surprised me with a separate preamp and amp. I never looked back. Without linking you to another thread in which I described my transition, I'll simply state that the listening experience between a receiver and separates is simply not the same.

Upon going the seperates route, the "middle" of my music (created via bass guitar/upright bass/synth bass) came to life like never before as the separate components proved much more capable of reproducing the appropriate sonic separation of instruments (primarily cymbals/snare strikes, guitars, and bass) and transitioning playback in my living room to a well-staged, spatial and sonically "clean" experience. The receivers I had been purchasing at Best Buy and/or Circuit City were O.K. but simply were not capable of producing the WOW factor that so many listeners, especially on this site, aim for. What they presented was pretty much a subdued "blob" of low frequencies with no coherent mid-bass punctuated by vocals and snare strikes.

The Marantz-branded Denon PM5005 you are using is great, I used the silimarly slim-lined NR1402 for during the first six months of 2016 and thoroughly enjoyed its Pure Direct function. It did its job well at 50 watts per channel. Stepping up to a 125 watt per channel Class A/B B&K amp with complimentary preamp and elevating my loudspeakers and subs a couple of inches above my hardwood floors via sound dampening platforms simply took everything over the top.

The extra headroom provided via more "clean" watts through an amp of 100 watts or more per channel accompanied by a preamp will allow you to enjoy the dynamics of your music without having to turn the volume up to "11" (assuming that's not your thing) and most likely will increase the perception of nuance, subtlety, and dynamics (especially of classical music) with minimal distortion when played at louder volumes. No matter how long it takes to save up, get the best preamplifier and amplifier you can obtain and let us know about any change in the quality of playback you perceive. In no way, shape, or form am I attempting to knock a receiver, but going forward, at least in my home, a seperate preamp and amp will be used for the playback of music and the multichannel receiver will be saved for use with DVD and/or Blu-ray discs.

Good luck in your improvement project.
 
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Thanks! This helps ALOT.
What they presented was pretty much a subdued "blob" of low frequencies with no coherent mid-bass punctuated by vocals and snare strikes.

a preamp will allow you to enjoy the dynamics of your music without having to turn the volume up to "11"

This perfectly explains the issues with my current setup. The sound is above average i'd say but really muddy, and i really need to crank the volume up in order to make the music somewhat come to life. This is just not practical with girlfriend/10 month baby/living in an appartment.
So i need to be on the lookout for a seperate pre-amp and an amp in the 100W+ range. I have a feeling this will be expensive. :)
Thanks people!
 
I'm having trouble reconciling "above average" sound with "really muddy." I am not familiar with your speakers, but there's no reason the Marantz gear you have should sound muddy (I was very happy with my PM5004, anyway). I know you've had the system for a while, so this may sound silly, but how much have you been able to play with speaker placement? Muddy sound is often the result of having speakers too close to room boundaries, especially, as in the case or your JBL's, when they have a rear-firing bass port, or when the speakers are crowded amongst furniture--having some clear space around your speakers is usually a good thing. Your manual says to have them at least 20 inches from side walls, but more might be needed, and do experiment boldly with distances away from the back wall. If you find a spot where they give good sound but the placement is impractical, then I would say your friend is right, and a speaker whose placement needs are more compatible with your living space might be a good place to start. Anyway, placement is just a free thing to try if you haven't already exhausted all the possibilities in that area.
 
Sorry english is not my first language. What i meant to say is that (to my novice ears) the sound is above average when i crank the volume up and play really loud. But when playing at normal volume it sounds muddy, and some instruments are lost in the fold.
Hmm, my living room looks like a furniture store right now. Will try and move some stuff around and then try put the speakers further from the wall. See what happens. Thanks man!
 
It's possible we're thinking of different things by the word "muddy"; for me, what I think of as muddy sound tends to get worse rather than better when the volume is increased. One thing that the PM5004 did better for me when I had moved to an apartment was providing a loudness button, something my separate preamp and power amp lacked. When forced to listen at low sound pressure levels, our ears, which are most sensitive in the middle frequencies, can lose both bass presence and higher frequency detail. With the PM5004 at low volume, the loudness button made it possible for me to hear more of what was happening in the music. Another thing I liked about the PM5004 compared to the PM6004 and my own preamp was the 5004's more aggressive tone controls. I like listening to old-time radio shows, and the cd's I've purchased often have audio that is chesty and muffled sounding; the tone controls on the PM5004 dealt with that a lot better for me than those on the PM6004.

Anyway, best wishes in your experiments with furniture moves and speaker placement, and while the "source direct" option someone mentioned can be a good choice in some circumstances, don't be afraid to see what effect your loudness button and tone controls can make--that's what they're there for.
 
Are you listening more to CDs or LPs?
Is the muddy sound the same for each?
If it's only on LPs, a cartridge upgrade may be the answer. You didn't mention what you have.
If the problem is with both CDs and LPs, after you have played with placement and the loudness button, the next step is often a matter of economics.
IMHO, and others that I respect, speakers are where you want to spend the most. If you are not in the position to make a larger investment now; but feel you will be later on, upgrading your receiver may be the way to go in the short run.
However, if you can afford it, speakers is where to start and then match the electronics to them. You may not have to spend a lot more on speakers if the JBL & Marantz are just a bad match. I find that a decent pair of headphones is a good way to isolate the problem. The JBLs are not very efficient, so headphones that are harder to drive would be best. I am not well informed on that subject, as I got a pair of Stax, which are very hard to drive, decades ago and haven't looked at anything since.
Also, are your speaker cables adequate?
Good luck, you poor bast#$d! You'll be addicted in no time. ;^)
 
Good point about LPs vs. CDs - lots of potential clues in a comparison. How would you compare the sound you get from each? Can you listen for hours to either, or does your attention wander?

Before your next upgrade you should evaluate your listening room. This concerns speaker placement, as mentioned above, but also addressing first reflection points. Reflection of sound off the floor, walls, and ceiling can muddy sound considerably. Threads about room acoustics can be found in the Listening Spaces forum.

Sounding better and clearer at higher volume often points to a speaker change as a potential improvement. Can you stand the thought of used speakers? Listening to as many as practical would help refine your preferences.

Welcome to AK!

:music:
 
The recommendations I've found to be most helpful for upgrades go in this order:

1. Decide what kind of changes you want in the sound. ("Clear sound at low volume" is a good observation. Anything else?) Listen to some high end systems if you can to get a sense of what's possible.

2. Speakers first. Some say spend half your budget here, but my speakers are actually the component I spent the least on, so it's really about quality, not price.

3. Choose amplification based on what your speakers need.

4. Get the best sources you can. If you have solid speakers and appropriate amplification, you can upgrade sources for years without changing everything else.

Do it this way and the risk of finding yourself spending money over and over is minimized.

Last thought - think hard about how you'll feel when your future toddler fiddles with the gear! I have a set of speakers that still have diaparene residue on them from 25 years ago and more than one record cover that was "improved" with markers when I wasn't watching what my son was up to.
 
Have you double checked the phasing of your speakers? Be sure plus and minus hookups match.
 
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