New EH 2A3 tubes?

RickB

On the Road to Find Out
Subscriber
Ok, I tried two different posts at the Asylum and got no answers, so maybe you folks know a bit more!

We got a New Sensor catalog the other day at Galen's and they have listed an Electro Harmonix 2A3 tube with gold plated grids...

Has anyone heard anything about these tubes?

I've put a set of Sovtek 2A3's in my Paramours and like them darn well as much as RCA bi-plates...

So I'm just wondering if the EH's would be any better....

Thanx
Rick
 
Sorry man, I don't know anything about them [Electro Harmonix 2A3] either. I am familiar with the RCA and Sovtek 2a3's. I like both tubes also, but for different reason as they are quite dis-similiar in signature. Just curious, what's you take on them. I did listened to my RCA's in TIC's paramours and liked what I heard. Course, he's moved on to bigger and better things now.

MikE
 
Well, here's a copy of what I received when I emailed New Sensor for info on the tubes:

The Sovtek 2A3 and Electro-Harmonix 2A3EH Gold are currently in production.
The Sovtek 2A3 has been available since late 1999. The Electro-Harmonix
2A3EH Gold is a new tube that has gold plated grids and a white ceramic
base. Both types are single plate types that rival the most desirable
vintage types. There is a write up in the Summer 1999 Vacuum Tube Valley
that gives the Sovtek 2A3 very high marks. The Electro-Harmonix 2A3EH Gold
is up there with the RCA single plate types of the 1930s


Looks like I'm going to have to order me a set and see how they sound....
 
I would post the question on the Bottlehead forum. They have tired just about every 2A3 there is for their Paramour kits. They presently really like the TJ Mesh Matrix 2A3. It is specifically built as a 2A3 and is not a detuned 300B. At present I don't know of anyone using the Electro. You could also try DIYaudio.com
 
Hey, Luther

Well, I was figuring that there may be more folks than just Bottleheads that may have had a chance to see the new tube and that's why I tried the other asylums...besides, I have read just about every post relating to 2A3's in the Bottlehead forum and there was no mention made of the EH tubes.

I would like a set of the TJ meshies, but at the price they are running, it's not in the budget for a while...

So, I guess that I'm going to call Galen tomorrow and have him order me a pair....looks like I'll be the first kid on the block with a pair!

P.S., your 2A3 amps look great! Just like everything that I have seen you do...they sure came a long way from the collection of parts that I saw at the June meeting!

Rick
 
Let Us Know How They Sound

Originally posted by RickB

So, I guess that I'm going to call Galen tomorrow and have him order me a pair....looks like I'll be the first kid on the block with a pair!

Rick

Rick, thanks for letting us know the EH 2A3's are available. When you get them, let us know how they sound. After doing the iron upgrade on my Paramours I have decided they are worthy of further upgrade, which would start with replacing the Valve Art's that came with them. I was considering Sovteks, but the EH's might be a better choice if they are equal to some of the other EH's I have gotten in the past such as the EH 300B's.
 
The new EH 2A3's ARE showing up on the New Sensor site, but there's no information about them... Price seems reasonable if they're THAT good.
 
Street Price

Originally posted by mhardy6647
The new EH 2A3's ARE showing up on the New Sensor site, but there's no information about them... Price seems reasonable if they're THAT good.

The New Sensor site list prices are $110 for a matched pair of Sovteks and $164 for EH's. The tubestore's "street price" for the pair of Sovteks is $70, so if the EH's are equally discounted the price will be about $105 for a matched pair. I'll email the tubestore to ask when they expect to have the EH's in stock and what the price will be. Will let you guys know their response.
 
Availability From The Tubestore

I received a response from the Tubestore, which is my source for most of the tubes I order: "We may consider getting these in but we have had no demand for them yet so I don't know when we'll start carrying them on a steady basis. I can special order you a pair if you wish. The price is $129.95/pair".

I hadn't thought about it, but DHT's must be a niche product within a niche market (tubes), and the volume of any brand's sales must be low. Since they're a bit more than I anticipated I believe I'll wait and let Rick tell us how they sound before I order a pair.
 
Well, it looks like I'm the guy in the barrel this time around, I called Galen yesterday and had him order me a set plus some Mullard 12AT7/CV4024 series tubes that NewSensor had on sale...

I also had a reply on the Tubes Asylum in which a fellow stated that the EH 2A3's took about 150 hrs to break in:

I bought these tubes in two versions, one with ceramic base from a hong
kong dealer and one with plastic base from new sensor. here is what I
heard, I found that the gold grid takes quite a while to break in (about
150-200 hours) but then sound quite good. compared with the normal sovtek
they sound slightly (SLIGHTLY) warmer in the upper bass and mid range and
perhaps (PERHAPS) slightly less detailed than the normal tube. AT $60 each
from newsensor it is a no brainer IMHO, buy a pair or quad and try them
out. I think I prefer the standard sovtek ever so slightly in my system,
but the difference is so slight (less so than changing the rectifier tube
or input tube in my system) that I could happily live with both/either.
the price is right, check them out.


My mind was made up after reading that message...plus I thought it would only be fair since I can buy these at the discounted dealer rate and therefore if they really sucked, no one else would be out more money....at least I will be able to compre them to the RCA biplates and the Sovteks...one of the ValveArt tubes that came with my Paramours was noisy so it would'nt do to compare against that set...
 
I was under the impression that any tube from New Sensor was a Sovtec tube. EH is as brand that can be put on any nrewly manufactured tube regardless of origin, so I wouls suspect that the EHs are an upgraded version of the regular Sovtec. It could be things have changed but a few years ago New Sensor tubes were all Sovtecs or so I thought.
 
Yep, I've been enjoying them so much that I haven't pulled them out to compare vs. the Sovtek's or the RCA'S!

SWMBO is leaving for the weekend and I should get some time to play with tubes Saturday and come to more concrete observations....

I was also waiting for a new WireWorld Equinox 5 interconnect between the SACD 1000 and the AI Mod3A to settle in and got a chance today to compare it against a couple of comparable priced interconnects...it's staying. It sounds a lot like the Polaris 3 but with more resolution. Much more refined than the JPS UltraConductor and several different homebrew designs....I'll try and bring home some more interconnects from Galen's Saturday and see just where the Equinox sits in the world of cables....

I also stuck a couple of 3mfd @ 440VAC motor run capacitors as bypasses on the last of the Panasonic electrolytics in the Paramours' power supplies and I wanted to give them about a week before really making any qualitative decisions.

Then, I picked up one of the cheap a** Pioneer DV563's at Best Buy Rentals this past week....with about 100 hours on it, it has a much better picture than my Toshiba SD-9000, but that's to be expected with progressive scan vs. interlaced, and it's sound with the Equinox is a notch or two below the SACD 1000 with the Ultra Conductors (in SACD mode)...I'm running Cardas Twinlink on it now and at least it doesn't make you run from the room screaming! But the SACD 1000 with the Equinox is still a much better SACD player....I guess you do get what you pay for! I figure with 30 days =720 hours, Ill be able to put a couple of hundred hours on the unit in each mode before taking it back if it's sound quality doesn't refine a bit....

I've also been coming to grips with the sound of the den after rearranging the equipment a bit and getting both subs in the corners...this one change made a huge difference in soundstaging, since the Third Rethm's just don't have ANY bottom end stereo subs are necessary due to the higher than normal crossover frequency to them..

So, things should all come together Saturday afternoon for tube swapping!

eh2a31small.jpg



denAs.jpg
 
Way cool, you have some killer toys there. So, you think you might bring your Paramours with the EH 2A3's to Austin? Would love to hear them on John's A7's.
 
Originally posted by Thatch_Ear
I was under the impression that any tube from New Sensor was a Sovtec tube. EH is as brand that can be put on any nrewly manufactured tube regardless of origin, so I wouls suspect that the EHs are an upgraded version of the regular Sovtec. It could be things have changed but a few years ago New Sensor tubes were all Sovtecs or so I thought.

EH tubes are NOT sovteks . I have the EH 300Bs, and they are FAR superior to the sovteks which are crap. Actually, I like mthem better than many other tubes.
EH tubes are new(er) designs . If my experience with the 300Bs is any indication, the new 2A3s should be a winner.
Note: I don't care for the sovtek 2A3s.
enjoy,
Jack
 
other 2A3s....

Guys,

I have a pair of slightly modified Paramours. I have the stock tubes (crap) a pair of Sovteks (much better) and I bought a pair of slightly used TJ Fullmusic 300b/2.5v Meshplates. I have also heard MikE's RCA 2A3s IMS and I've heard a pair of Sophia 45 Meshies (actually a relabeled 2A3 meshie according to my friend Randy and his friend Gordon Rankin) IMS.

IMS, the TJ 300b/2.5v is the easy winner! This tube really brought the Paramours up into the truely great catagory IMHO. They also have the benefit of looking really cool with that meshplate and visable grid!

If you ever get a chance to hear these in you amp, go for it! They are really good!

Enjoy,

TIC
 
>>>IMS, the TJ 300b/2.5v is the easy winner! <<<

But they aren't 2A3s, just 300Bs with a lower voltage. If you prefer them, perhaps you should look into 300B amps.
enjoy,
Jack
 
Jack G,

You may be onto something! But honestly, I'm so happy with the sound of the Paramours with the TJ 300b/2.5 v that I'm not really looking at amps right now.

I'm not sure of the power output of the TJ, but maybe it's just more power that I like. Regardless, my De Capos sound great with the available power, but aren't really high efficient (only 92 db) like most of the speakers people tend to use with low powered amps.

Heck, maybe I should try the Sovteks again considering I have a new source component (un-named to protect the integrity of my "crate" thread). Possibly the slight graniness that the TJs helped to remove was more a function of my source. Hummm.....

Enjoy ( I know I am),

TIC
 
Originally posted by TIC
Jack G,

You may be onto something! But honestly, I'm so happy with the sound of the Paramours with the TJ 300b/2.5 v that I'm not really looking at amps right now.


TIC

That'sw all that counts.;)

Jack
 
OK, I finally had some time to sit down and compare 2A3's this afternoon and evening.....

paramours.jpg


Let me recap the test conditions, Phillips SACD1000 with WireWorld Equinox 5's feeding a 1998 Audible Illusions Modulus 3A preamp with 6H23neb tubes in the linestage. From the AI to the Paramours I use a 2.5m length of Cardas Twinlink 5-C cable. This is normally a speaker cable, but it is 15.5ga Litz wire, shielded, and makes a pretty decent interconnect that doesn't pick up noise. On the preamp end there are Cardas SRCA plugs, on the amplifier end there are the Cardas right angle GRNO plugs.

The Paramours are not stock. I doubled up the Speco output transformers. They have Caddock and Holco resistors, the C4S kits, Panasonic TSHB filter caps and TSHA cathode bypass caps. The coupling cap is a Cardas. The Parafeed caps are 4mfd @ 330VAC CDE motor run caps. The TSHB's are bypassed with a set of 3mfd @ 440VAC motor run caps. I used the original coupling caps to bypass the rectifier diodes.

I added the BCP-15 plate chokes and took the stock chokes and added them to the power supply.

Internal wiring was done in the signal path with Cardas 21.5ga Litz, power wiring was all mi-spec Belden Teflon insulated silver plated copper.

I'm using Mullard CV4024's in the 12AT7 position with IERC tube shields.

Power cords to the Paramours are Shunyata Sidewinders. To the Audible a near clone of the Shunyata Diamondback. Another homebrew power cable is on the Phillips and it is plugged into a OneAC isolation transformer plugged into the digital AC outlets of a Tice SoloAV line conditoner. The Audible is plugged into the Analog section of the Tice and the Paramours are plugged into the Amplifier outlets.....no ground loop hums! I have crappy 47year old wiring in the house, but a Pass and Seymour 5262A outlet that's been cryo'ed that the Tice is plugged into.

I did the first full assembly of the amps, minus the C4S kits and oil caps, the first weekend of June. I put the Parafeed oil caps in back in the beginning of August and the power supply bypasses have been in about a week and a half. I leave the amps on most of the time, so they have quite a few hours on them and all should be broken in.

Here's a pic of the underside of the left amp before oil caps and C4S kits:
below3.jpg


Here's the right one with the oil caps:
below3b.jpg


The Paramours are connected to a set of Third Rethm loudspeakers by a 2 m length of Cardas Cross speaker cable. The Thirds have the Lother DX55 drivers. I turned the subs off to make the comparisons to see if there was much difference in the bass delivery of the tubes....well, at least within what bass the Thirds try to put out!

So, now with all that fooferall outta the way, what were the results? Sovtek, EH Gold, or RCA?

Well, I started with the EH's as that's what has been in the amps since I got the tubes...they sounded pretty darn good, so I swapped in the Sovteks...they sounded very similar but a little less refined and maybe a little more grain in the high end, but is a very similar sounding tube. It does all the nice 2A3 stuff well, it's just that the EH's are a little better.

Then I plugged in a set of '50's vinatge RCA biplates.

Well, the sound quality went up a notch again. Things like plucked guitar strings seemed to have more definition in the pluck, the vibration of the string, the harmonics of the note, and in the decay of it's sound. There was a greater refinement in the depth of the soundstage and overall sound quality, and the texture of the music seemed to be portrayed to a greater degree. All this and they seemed smoother but more detailed!

As far as the bass goes, let me state that the Thirds do not do bass...Nope, that's not part of the job description, bud! You want bass, you gotta look elsewhere! (At least in my room!) But, what was there was very similar between the three sets of tubes with the same qualitative differences between them as in the higher end. Bass was the most tuneful with the RCA's, next came the EH's, then in a not too distant third place, were the Sovteks.

Overall, the RCA's were, in my system, the best performers. If one were able to buy new sets of RCA 2A3's at the price of either the EH's or the Sovteks, they would be a must have! But, at the price the RCA's seem to command today, it's really hard to justify their price. I would really like to hear a set of the TJ mesh plates in my system and just see how well they compare...perhaps if you are willing to spend the money for NOS RCA's the TJ's would be a better buy, I won't know until I hear them in my amps, in my system. At the prices for the EH's and the Sovteks, though, you really can't go wrong.

Looking at the internal construction of the Sov's vs. the EH's, they look like the same tubes. The EH's, though, have none of the blue gas glow that I see in the Sovteks. Plus, their ceramic base and polished pins are just a step above the quality level of the Sovtek's. Both brands of tubes are substantially better built than the RCA's which seem almost flimsy in comparison! The glass on the RCA is much thinner than that of the EH's or the Sovteks, and the RCA's pins are also a slightly smaller diameter. The EH's plate structure is also aligned better inside the tube than the Sovteks....so, it looks like the EH's are a "blueprinted" set of Sovteks, they've been ported 'n polished, and bring a higher level of refinement to the tube than is present in the Sovteks.

Ar they worth the street price increase over the Sovteks? I don't know, but either one is better than what I heard from the stock Chinese tubes by a good degree... So, I guess I'll leave the EH's in for most of my listening and break out the RCA's when I really want to sit back and enjoy the sounds....

One of these days, though, I'm gonna get my hands on some mesh plates and then..........but for now, I've got a set of Cardas Neutral Reference interconnects to break in and then next week it will be the Equinox 5's vs. JPS Superconductors (Original) vs. Goertz Tourmaline vs. the Neutral References.....I'll let them all sit for at least 100 hours on the DuoTech Cable Enhancer before comparing....more fun!

Anyhow, hope this wasn't too long, but time now to go stick "The Two Towers" into the DVD player and relax the rest of the evening!

Rick
 
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