New Grado Black2

Discussion in 'Turntables' started by Jeff K, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. marcmorin

    marcmorin AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    yes, you added a fair amount of mass. you could put the same amount of mass centered at the front of the cart. You would have different results though in playback even though the rest of the arm as you mentioned would be set up the same way. The out-rigger mass makes it more difficult for the bearing energies to affect the "want to" rotation. having the mass below that centerline of the cart mass centerline that runs to the pivots adds an opposing restorative force in the vertical, the out-rigger mass adds an opposing restorative force in the horizontal. I don't think i'm saying anything different than Frank, except to say those polar moments are generated in the arm bearings and sent back to the cart
     
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  2. DavidTT

    DavidTT AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Interesting and thanks. Can I ask what your thoughts are, generally, about the mod itself? Searches revealed that there was a time when "longhorning" carts was very popular, and I believe that Van Alstine is still selling longorned Grados. Still, I see few discussing the merits/negatives of same in the forums anymore. Since you have so much experience with improving AR tonearms and know Grado very well, it would be interesting to know your thoughts.

    When I did my Grado Blue1, my thoughts were that sound was improved, although the added weight made me wonder about several changed parameters in the arm/cart system itself and how they interacted, and whether there might be downsides to the mod.


     
  3. beatcomber

    beatcomber AK Member

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    Ah, that explains my confusion!
     
  4. reynolds753

    reynolds753 Just a man on a bicycle and a threat to no one Subscriber

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    I have a question about the Grado Black cartridge. I recently picked up a Dual 505-3 turntable with a Grado Black cartridge. The stylus had not been changed in a while according to the seller. No doubt it is at least a 1 version. Would I be better off buying a new Grado Black 2 or am I able to replace/upgrade the stylus and use the original cartridge?
     
  5. marcmorin

    marcmorin AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    My few attempts at it were in the negative territory with the results being the bass suffered tremendously. To a bloat. Which was the same issue i had running grados in high(er) mass arms. Went over quite a bit on this back about 12-14 years ago on VE with a person no longer with us. (john the chair guy). and then continued our discussions on vinyl circle. The best conclusions we could come up with is it works well on arms that suffer a great deal in velocity differences about the two planes. That can be tamed to eliminated with damping troughs also. Lots of things come in trends too. there was a sudden interest again after Frank published the details thus walking away from his intellectual property rights to it. A few posts on the forums suddenly became hundreds of posts while folks tried it, did their own designs, some like handlebar mustaches, some mounted them at the top on a whim. Interests in it died again and then started coming back some years ago when it was being offered again on Franks site. A member here does those mods for Frank I believe. As with phono cartridges, especially grado, interests ebbs and flows also. As a side note, in similar vein, My MCZ and my 10MR are both mounted in the same type headshell. My MCZ loves the grado coupler, my 10MR hates it.
     
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  6. cafe latte

    cafe latte AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    With Grado IMO just mount it on the right arm or add a mod with oil damping what we are trying to do is extend compliance with this mod why not just fit it to the correct arm?
    Chris
     

     

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  7. marcmorin

    marcmorin AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    most people buying the entry level grado carts back in the day when the longhorn was designed..........I would bet the vast majority of tables had the brand arm already in place, without any options to replace arms.
     
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  8. DavidTT

    DavidTT AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Thanks for that background! I'm going to have to try a new Prestige2 cart, unmodded, to see how it sounds. All good.

     
  9. beatcomber

    beatcomber AK Member

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    The primary difference is in the bodies. I did a side-by-side comparison of the Black1 vs Black2, and the 2 was substantially better.

    Spend the extra $25 and replace the whole thing.
     
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  10. marcmorin

    marcmorin AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    if you still have them, you might re post your sound files so he may hear the differences in them :thumbsup:
     
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  11. Lorenzo47

    Lorenzo47 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I own them both and the 2 is much better all around.
     
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  12. beatcomber

    beatcomber AK Member

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    Regrettably I had to delete them from Dropbox to free up space...
     
  13. cafe latte

    cafe latte AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    My first Grado was a Platinum wood (old version). Mids were nice but highs were rolled off and bass was bloated and woolly. I must have revisited that cart 20 times trying different things or even different turntables and each time I removed the Grado and put it back in the cart box as it promised so much with theat midrange but I just could not live with that treble or bass. Then I read that the new Grado gold 2 where much better so I decided to give Grado another chance and I bought the gold 2. So glad I did. the high were sweet and extended and bass bloat was gone totally different cart than the old Platinum, actually way better than the Platinum. You just cant compare the old and the new Grado 2 range old had good mids the new has good everything.
    Chris
     
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  14. marcmorin

    marcmorin AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Revisiting this thread.

    I had the luxury of hearing the grado black 2 in my system on a table I just went through.

    I ran the cart over my various test, and listening albums. This is quite an improvement over the original Black, and a decent improvement over the Black -1. I find the soundstage to be a nice mix of the old grado and the X, Z and prestige soundstage. Wide, and deep. Tonal balance is still a bit off, but we're talking about an entry level cart. Which overall, this carts certainly doesn't sound like entry level.
    It's very quiet in the grove, handles ticks and pops nearly as well as my upper signature styli. Which means micro-mistracking is almost nil.
    bass is still forward, but much better controlled than the Black-1, upper midrange is still recessed, but a good bit less than the Black-1. Retains the grado house sound, but give a much much smoother presentation with nary a cringe level on heavy, high frequency transients. Playing Amon Tobin ISAM, there is some serious low registers recorded. It tracked them well, although did enhance them a touch, but not to the point of bloat. More importantly, during those extremely low, and loud passages, the rest of the music, and just as important the position of the music remained pretty much where it was supposed to be. Something the Prestige series up to now has failed to do (<~~<< to my ears)
     
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  15. Joel66

    Joel66 Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate your review. Thank you.
     
  16. Lorenzo47

    Lorenzo47 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds suspiciously like my table and my Black2! By the way Marc, got the table home safely and leveled. Went right for the Gold2. It sounds marvelous. Going through some more very familiar disks. Great job, thank you once again. This table will last another 50 years even though I won't.
     

     

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  17. marcmorin

    marcmorin AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    yep, that it was. To the last part, you have a built in excuse to listen to 2 or 3 times as many albums as normal. :deal:.......................................might i suggest Apostrophe :rockon:
     
  18. Lorenzo47

    Lorenzo47 Well-Known Member

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    And, that is most definitely happening.
     
  19. Lorenzo47

    Lorenzo47 Well-Known Member

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    Joe's Garage on the new table today Marc. Much fun.
     
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