New Khorn owner

[62caddy]

According to the meters on the MC2205, set at watts, I'm mostly not going over .2 watts per channel. I think the most I could put through the Kefs were 30 watts before I started hearing distortion. I know the meters are notoriously inaccurate, but comparatively, with the Kefs, my first impressions may have been somewhat off. The gain on the MC2205 is at max, and the C26 volume is at 1/4 right now. Dire Straits are playing at slightly lower volume level than I like, but a bit louder than my wife likes. Compromise... With the Kefs, I think I had the volume at just over 1/4 for the same SPL.

Unlike most manufacturers, meters on McIntosh equipment are quite accurate.

 

[motorstereo]

Respectfully disagree that x number of watts are needed for anything without knowing the room size, listening distance and speaker sensitivity.

There's no shortage of listeners using MC225, MC30, 2x wpc Fisher receivers or any number of flea watt amplifiers who are well satisfied with the results, not wanting for headroom.

There's a fellow who uses a 18wpc tube amp on his pair of big sda's like mine and claims he's perfectly happy. To satisfy my curiosity I tried my 60 wpc tube amp on my sda's just to see if I was missing anything compared to my 2500's. As it turned yes I was missing a lot.......... with the 60 wpc tube amp. Bass and imaging suffered terribly even at low volumes compared to the higher current amps. My ears tell the same thing is happening with my new K's thus far. More current, headroom and wpc has meant better sound across the listening spectrum than the flea watts on the K's.........so far

 

[62caddy]

There's a fellow who uses a 18wpc tube amp on his pair of big sda's like mine and claims he's perfectly happy. To satisfy my curiosity I tried my 60 wpc tube amp on my sda's just to see if I was missing anything compared to my 2500's. As it turned yes I was missing a lot.......... with the 60 wpc tube amp. Bass and imaging suffered terribly even at low volumes compared to the higher current amps. My ears tell the same thing is happening with my new K's thus far. More current, headroom and wpc has meant better sound across the listening spectrum than the flea watts on the K's.........so far

Need to familiarize yourself with Ohm's Law.

Bottom line is that a watt is a watt, regardless of the size of amplifier supplying it.

 

[damacman]

Need to familiarize yourself with Ohm's Law.

Bottom line is that a watt is a watt, regardless of the size of amplifier supplying it.

Ohm’s Law, as written, applies to DC circuits. A Watt is a Watt applies here as well - when driving purely resistive loads, of which loudspeakers are not.

We use the word synergy to express a favorable relationship between components. Achieving synergy with loudspeakers is always easier with power amplifiers which can maintain output voltage when voltage and current are out of phase with one another.

 

[62caddy]

Ohm’s Law, as written, applies to DC circuits. A Watt is a Watt applies here as well - when driving purely resistive loads, of which loudspeakers are not.

We use the word synergy to express a favorable relationship between components. Achieving synergy with loudspeakers is always easier with power amplifiers which can maintain output voltage when voltage and current are out of phase with one another.

Yes however with Khorns, we are dealing with speakers of extraordinary sensitivity. Even allowing for the 4 ohm impedance dip in the bass region, we are still talking about power levels (therefore current values) which are well within the capability of the most modestly powered equipment in the typical application. These are not difficult speakers to drive. Paul Klipsch's famous quote regarding a "5 watt amplifier" was not made without good reason where the Khorn is concerned.

No shortage of owners claim a pair of Ks with low powered tube amplifiers is a match made in audio heaven.

 

[motorstereo]

Apparently we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one 62caddy In my case you're trying to convince a guy that uses an MC2255 for a computer monitor amp and bridged 2500's for the main rig. It may not be a 5wpc amp like PWK's quote from the late 40's but after hearing the 2125 on the K's my ears tell me there are sonic advantages to supplying the khorns (or any speaker for that matter) with far more power than they'll ever need or use.

 

[motorstereo]

^^^^^^Agreed; What fun would it be here if we all liked the same rigs?? More than likely there wouldn't even be an audiokarma as there wouldn't be anything to discuss

 

[motorstereo]

Watt kind of amp ?

Yaqin 100B dual mono integrated tube amp is the one I have.

 

[motorstereo]

Well it's not a Mac or vintage Marantz but it does ok. Switchable from 30 wpc triode to 60 wpc linear.4 kt88's, 4 6sn7's and 2 12ax7's all cherry picked from my stash. It's actually a decent amp (56lbs); I just prefer SS.

 

[damacman]

Yes however with Khorns, we are dealing with speakers of extraordinary sensitivity. Even allowing for the 4 ohm impedance dip in the bass region, we are still talking about power levels (therefore current values) which are well within the capability of the most modestly powered equipment in the typical application. These are not difficult speakers to drive. Paul Klipsch's famous quote regarding a "5 watt amplifier" was not made without good reason where the Khorn is concerned.

No shortage of owners claim a pair of Ks with low powered tube amplifiers is a match made in audio heaven.

I believe PWKs quote was something to the effect of, "What the world really needs is a great 10 Watt amplifier . . . " He would have gotten no argument from me in that regards. However, this has nothing to do with the fact that 10 Watts is enough / isn't enough, the sensitivity of k-horns is 105dB @ 1W/1M, etc.

I've heard k-horns with all kinds of tube amplifiers driving them and they sound exquisite with the human voice, brass, percussion, etc. However, if you want to experience the you are there immediacy and impact a pair of k-horns is truly capable of, then you need more. It sounds like this is what motorstereo is after. I know I would be.

FWIW, my buddy Mike (same guy who drove his k-horns with an MC7300), preferred the MC2125 on his. I never heard that combo. For most of the last two decades, he's used an MC2205 or a Yamaha B-2 on his. He prefers both to the MC2125 but gives the MC2125 a nod saying that it's a real close race. A year ago, he stumbled upon an MC7106 at a flea market. He now uses that with his k-horns and says it's the best combo yet. This makes me think that the MC7200 / k-horns might be the match - I mean, you gotta' have meters, right?

 

[damacman]

Apparently we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one 62caddy In my case you're trying to convince a guy that uses an MC2255 for a computer monitor amp and bridged 2500's for the main rig. It may not be a 5wpc amp like PWK's quote from the late 40's but after hearing the 2125 on the K's my ears tell me there are sonic advantages to supplying the khorns (or any speaker for that matter) with far more power than they'll ever need or use.

Half the fun of this hobby is looking for that synergy. Once you find it, you know.

 

[usedto]

I guess I could chime in about my Sansui AU417, 717, 719, or 8080DB...........................................

 

[damacman]

I guess I could chime in about my Sansui AU417, 717, 719, or 8080DB...........................................

Please do. I only have a lowly 217 tho ...

 

[motorstereo]

I've heard k-horns with all kinds of tube amplifiers driving them and they sound exquisite with the human voice, brass, percussion, etc. However, if you want to experience the you are there immediacy and impact a pair of k-horns is truly capable of, then you need more. It sounds like this is what motorstereo is after. I know I would be.

Very good explanation damacman as usual. Yes I guess that's what I am after. 95% of the time the new K's idle along at a nice volume. But for that extra 5% I've found the 2125 to be the one to push them to their limits while sounding great the rest of the time. So far this is the best I've heard them sound through out their range with several more combos to try out.

I guess I could chime in about my Sansui AU417, 717, 719, or 8080DB...........................................

Yes please do; I like hearing opinions on what sounds nice on these speakers. I'm really regretting selling 2 au9500's I've owned over the years as I'm thinking they'd be a fantastic match up for the k's

 

[62caddy]

For the record:

"What this country needs is a good 5-watt amplifier.", p. 160; Paul Wilbur Klipsch: The LIfe...The Legend.

 

[dontmindme]

I wonder how many threads there are here about wattage and Khorns........

 

[motorstereo]

For the record:

"What this country needs is a good 5-watt amplifier.", p. 160; Paul Wilbur Klipsch: The LIfe...The Legend.

Ok; what year might this famous quote have been made? I'm guessing it was made back in the mono days of the late 40's-early 50's when there really weren't any good 5 watt amps. If that's the case then it would be 10 watts like damacman said for stereo (5 per khorn).

 

[62caddy]

I have no idea but there is no doubt in my mind it is as true today as it was when the statement had been made - at least as far as the Khorn is concerned. Mono/Stereo is irrelevant to the point regardless.

My own Altec 14 speakers which are 10dB less sensitive than Khorns - 5 wpc is extremely loud at a distance of 13 feet. The same SPL would be achieved with 0.5 wpc with a Klipschorn. I would have to keep the meter range setting at least on the -10dB setting on my MC2505 just get a modicum of meter movement. The - 20 dB setting would be necessary to provide the same meter movement with Khorns where full meter deflection occurs at 0.5 watts - if I wanted to get any type of observable meter movement - the majority of the time.

In any case I will never be convinced there is some magical thing occurring with a larger powered amplifier will do something better than a smaller amplifier operated within its limits - by simple virtue that it is a higher powered unit alone. I also fully understand this does not tend to be a "popular" or commonly held position on these pages but in the many years I've followed hi fi, I have never read anything to the contrary in the many credible published sources I've studied over many decades of involvement in hi fi.

That said, I do appreciate the advantages of well designed power supplies and especially, high current designed amplification equipment particularly important with high current demand reactive load loudspeakers. Khorns do not fall into that category, IMO.

 

[motorstereo]

That's part of what make this hobby fun caddy. Higher powered ss isn't for you obviously just like the lower powered units aren't my cup of tea. As I mentioned earlier we'll have to agree to disagree on this point as we both have our minds made up. I do agree with you that there isn't any "magic" going on with the higher powered amps. The term I'd use would be synergy. So far the most synergistic amp I've used on these k's just happens to be the most powerful to.

At some point though if a super low watt set amp becomes available (I just missed out on one in bt) I do want to try one as I've never owned one. Lots of push pulls both vintage and new have come and gone here over the years but never an set. Even though I'm highly doubtful an set will give me the sound I'm after I try to look at things with an open mind and give things a shot and find out firsthand.

 

[62caddy]

That's part of what make this hobby fun caddy. Higher powered ss isn't for you obviously just like the lower powered units aren't my cup of tea. As I mentioned earlier we'll have to agree to disagree on this point as we both have our minds made up. I do agree with you that there isn't any "magic" going on with the higher powered amps. The term I'd use would be synergy. So far the most synergistic amp I've used on these k's just happens to be the most powerful to.

At some point though if a super low watt set amp becomes available (I just missed out on one in bt) I do want to try one as I've never owned one. Lots of push pulls both vintage and new have come and gone here over the years but never an set. Even though I'm highly doubtful an set will give me the sound I'm after I try to look at things with an open mind and give things a shot and find out firsthand.

Have you seen my signature for my main system? I like the MC2125 so much that I have two! LOL! Plus an MC2155 to boot.

I've never been able to understand the obsession over output power. As if it's a panacea for all things. I've always tried to maintain a balanced approach.

Buying more power capability that will never be used is just a waste of money in my book. But what do I know?