New Schiit Saga - Passive preamp

[bimasta]

Two different philosophies here I think, no one right or wrong.

It's impossible to fault your statement. Simply using the words "right or wrong" reduced it to a black v white binary choice, in a world of infinite shadings. So I would reframe it as —

One philosophy that is the closest possible approach to the recording.

A different philosophy that is the closest approach to Jimi Hendrix.

 

[Jim Creek]

The benefit of transformer or autoformer based passive's is the impedance matching. perhaps the dynamically hindered sound produced by such designs as resistor ladders etc. can be traced to impedance mismatches to some degree. Of course a buffer can be inserted in the chain, but there you have another blip in the circuit to manage.

I apologize that I had no idea what an autoformer is or how it controls volume. So I Googled it and came up with this link: http://www.intactaudio.com/atten_FAQ.html

It would be cool if you would add your hands-on experience with this technology.

 

[Jim Creek]

It's impossible to fault your statement. Simply using the words "right or wrong" reduced it to a black v white binary choice, in a world of infinite shadings. So I would reframe it as —

One philosophy that is the closest possible approach to the recording.

A different philosophy that is the closest approach to Jimi Hendrix.

I have to confess that I listen to the Saga in tube mode 90% of the time. The tube retains the detail, but adds a sweetness, adds some 3d quality and boosts the bass and treble slightly. So the tube adds a certain type of amplification. But I like it.

 

[bimasta]

I have to confess that I listen to the Saga in tube mode 90% of the time. The tube retains the detail, but adds a sweetness, adds some 3d quality and boosts the bass and treble slightly. So the tube adds a certain type of amplification. But I like it.

Well Jim, now you've half convinced me to buy the Saga! With a stepped-resistor volume control too, with an ample 64 steps — better than my passive, which just has a pot. I don't know the 6H8C tube, I assume it's Russian made — do you know if it has equivalents? I have some lovely old NOS 6SL7's.

I hesitate because I often switch to a flea-watt (2W) SE amp driving hyper-efficient speakers — I'm sure it needs the extra 12-14db an active pre provides, the Saga's 1db wouldn't work.

Still, very tempting. And I like the Schiit designs, simple, sleek and small.

 

[Jim Creek]

Well Jim, now you've half convinced me to buy the Saga! With a stepped-resistor volume control too, with an ample 64 steps — better than my passive, which just has a pot. I don't know the 6H8C tube, I assume it's Russian made — do you know if it has equivalents? I have some lovely old NOS 6SL7's.

I hesitate because I often switch to a flea-watt (2W) SE amp driving hyper-efficient speakers — I'm sure it needs the extra 12-14db an active pre provides, the Saga's 1db wouldn't work.

Still, very tempting. And I like the Schiit designs, simple, sleek and small.

Yes, the bland 6HC8 is a Russian tube. The 6SN7, 5692 are much better replacements. I buy used old stock that test very high for around $10. The new Tung Sol 6SN7GTB for around $20 is quite good.

 

[MurrayLives]

The benefit of transformer or autoformer based passive's is the impedance matching. perhaps the dynamically hindered sound produced by such designs as resistor ladders etc. can be traced to impedance mismatches to some degree. Of course a buffer can be inserted in the chain, but there you have another blip in the circuit to manage.

That’s probably true in cheaper ladder designs, but spend the money on a really good one like a Placette, and there are no dynamics problems if you keep interconnects short.

 

[fredgarvin]

That’s probably true in cheaper ladder designs, but spend the money on a really good one like a Placette, and there are no dynamics problems if you keep interconnects short.

The placette is well regarded, for sure.

 

[jamesbs]

Ordered my Saga Sat and also bought a CBS Hytron 5692/6SN7 to try with it. My Christmas present to myself

I will leave the stock tube in for maybe a month and then try the CBS/Hytron. Will be using it with a 15 watt EL 84 tube amp, Klipsch Chorus ii(101 DB), Oppo 103, and a tube DAC.

 

[Robie]

On the verge of buying a Saga. Love to hear if anyone else has any insight (not incite - . I'm sure the autoformer is where we all should go but they are few and far between.

Great thread, BTW. Members respecting others and their opinions. Ain't nuthin' better.

Thanks.

 

[david1111]

Really botrytis, that tortuga audio link regarding passives is great!
And btw, I totally get the small speaker hoarder thing. I have the same afliction.
But, do I think they'll eventually be useful for someone I know? Do I think that I will eventually need to use them myself?
I really don't know, but they do look really cool and promising.

Also, with a name like botrytis, you must be involved with wine in some way. Collect? In the industry? Just enjoy special sweet wines? Grower?
Sorry, I don't mean to intrude; just curious.

 

[HiFiJeff]

So I came across this thread after all the research of a high quality pre-amp and needing one that has HT-Bypass to incorporate into my home theater system I am building. This piece of Schiit looks like a real winner! I have used Schiit products in the past with great results. I do have some questions though. I am still a little confused about.

The two sets of pre-outs on this, obviousl the one set goes to the amp, but the other set, can I use one left and one right line outs to hook up two subwoofers without having to use a y splitter? Is it the equivalent of having a sub 1 and sub 2 pre-out on an avr and it's just not labeled that way?

 

[HiFiJeff]

Sorry for the multiple questions. But I am still a little confused about the hookup of a subwoofer. So if I were hooking up only one subwoofer I would use both the left and right outputs on the Saga to go line in on the left and right subwoofer inputs?
But because I want to hook up two subs, I only use left for one and right for the other? Does that affect the sound?
Also, with the HT-Bypass, I am assuming that I am using the external amp hooked up to the Saga
instead of the left and right channels on my avr? Is that correct?

 

[judsonw]

For HT-Bypass, my understanding is that you connect the preamp to your AVR's HT-Bypass inputs. This lets you use the AVR as a stereo amp, bypassing its built in preamp when set to that input. As for subs, some AVRs include sub inputs in their HT-Bypass inputs, so the AVR will still be the thing connected to the Subs and speakers.

A small summary of HT-Bypass with a picture, which I found helpful:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/what-home-theater-bypass-feature

As for the labeling on the Saga, my guess is that Schiit did not want to pigeon hole what the outputs could be used for. They can go to an AVR with HT-Bypass, or one or two sets of power amps, or a power amp and a headphone amp, or power amp and powered subwoofers.

 

[The Fuxtor]

I use subwoofers with the other pair of preouts....

 

[59volvo]

fyi - this is is a pretty good passive pre

https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Pre...1-fkmr3&keywords=nobsound+L.+passive+selector

 

[mjw21a]

Ok, In the last few years I've run the Khozmo Akustyk, Schiit Saga (with RCA smoked bottle 6F8G) and most recently a Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2.0 (old Mullard 12AT7's & RCA 6SN7's). Still waiting for the Linear Power Supply for the MicroZOTL 2.0.

I particularly disliked the Khozmo Akustyk which I found to lack dynamics making it bland and boring . No matter what I did I just couldn't like it. I wrote off a pair of Red Wine Audio Signature 70.2 Monoblocks when really the Khozmo was the culprit.

The Schiit Saga is an absolute bargain. It surpasses the Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2.0 in terms of transparency and black background. Sound stage is fantastic. The tube buffer is very subtle though it's definitely better with than without. It's also very open sounding and dynamics compare favorably to many active stages.

The Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2.0 I can only compare with the stock switching power supply as I'm still awaiting the Linear Power Supply upgrade from the seller. It's slightly more closed in vs the Saga and I initially thought less transparent sounding though that's not really correct. It is more dynamic with the difference between quiet and loud passages far more noticeable. Likewise imaging is enhanced. That said it takes some really extended listening to make sense of the differences. I understand that the difference will be more pronounced once the LPS arrives.

So there you have it. The Schiit Saga is an absolute bargain for the performance on tap. I consider the stock MicroZOTL 2.0 to be incrementally better for quite a lot more cost. I'm hoping the LPS improves it still further.

 

[HiFiJeff]

I use subwoofers with the other pair of preouts....

So you have dual subs? And you have the left pre-out going to the left sub and the right pre-out going to the right sub?

 

[HiFiJeff]

Ok, In the last few years I've run the Khozmo Akustyk, Schiit Saga (with RCA smoked bottle 6F8G) and most recently a Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2.0 (old Mullard 12AT7's & RCA 6SN7's). Still waiting for the Linear Power Supply for the MicroZOTL 2.0.

I particularly disliked the Khozmo Akustyk which I found to lack dynamics making it bland and boring . No matter what I did I just couldn't like it. I wrote off a pair of Red Wine Audio Signature 70.2 Monoblocks when really the Khozmo was the culprit.

The Schiit Saga is an absolute bargain. It surpasses the Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2.0 in terms of transparency and black background. Sound stage is fantastic. The tube buffer is very subtle though it's definitely better with than without. It's also very open sounding and dynamics compare favorably to many active stages.

The Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2.0 I can only compare with the stock switching power supply as I'm still awaiting the Linear Power Supply upgrade from the seller. It's slightly more closed in vs the Saga and I initially thought less transparent sounding though that's not really correct. It is more dynamic with the difference between quiet and loud passages far more noticeable. Likewise imaging is enhanced. That said it takes some really extended listening to make sense of the differences. I understand that the difference will be more pronounced once the LPS arrives.

So there you have it. The Schiit Saga is an absolute bargain for the performance on tap. I consider the stock MicroZOTL 2.0 to be incrementally better for quite a lot more cost. I'm hoping the LPS improves it still further.

What tubes were you using with the Saga? Stock? Russian 6N8S or the Tung-Sol ones that Schiit offers as an upgrade?

 

[mjw21a]

What tubes were you using with the Saga? Stock? Russian 6N8S or the Tung-Sol ones that Schiit offers as an upgrade?

I was running a RCA 6F8G smoked bottle using a socket adapter. I recieved the Linear Power Supply for the LTA MZ2 and it's now clearly better in every aspect. Strange how close the Schiit Saga can get though for less $

 

[The Fuxtor]

So you have dual subs? And you have the left pre-out going to the left sub and the right pre-out going to the right sub?

Yup