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New silkscreening on faceplates?

Discussion in 'Marantz Audio' started by Steven Tate, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I have a low serial number engraved faceplate 2230 that I am mulling over how to refurbish the face. This one is fairly rough around the edges. I have done some research on how to redo the brushed look and I think I can do it. I also think I can get it reanodized in any color locally. But I have no idea who could replace the printing on the faceplate. Has anybody ever done this or know someone who can do it accurately?
    Steve
     
  2. rBuckner

    rBuckner Luv 2 Restore Subscriber

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    Beings the lettering is engraved or more likely stamped in, I'd think the method would be to use black enamel and a small brush. I'd thin the paint a bit and see if that works, trying to have it lay down smoothly. Maybe just using the small bottles of Testor's hobby paints for plastic models. Before the paint sets, use a toothpick to get the excess off of the top edges. For sure I wouldn't try to squeegee anything on but... maybe that's how it was done originally. My worry would be that the black paint would get into the brushed grain.

    On silver face plates I have refinished the edges by using various grits of sandpaper to simulate graining although there never was any there. It helps to hide any deeper gouges and looks like it belongs there. I masked off the front side and shot a Testor's clear semi-gloss paint to seal it up.
     
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  3. rBuckner

    rBuckner Luv 2 Restore Subscriber

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    P.S. Of course the edge method wouldn't do on a champagne anodized unit.
     
  4. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Yeah, the problem with this one is that all around the edges, there are scratches and bits and pieces where the anodizing has been chipped off. It's a champagne color with places up to 1/4" around the edges where it looks silver instead of champagne. I found an article where a guy sets up a table with sandpaper glued down face up and a wooden edge is clamped to the edge as a guide. You take a sheet of metal, put it against that wooden rail and slide it back and forth on the sandpaper to get a new brushed face. That surface could then be anodized. Of course, the lettering would go if it's on the surface. On my particular plate, the engraving is pretty shallow and it appears that some of the black lettering sticks up above the metal surface. It's probably hopeless to get this fixed right, but I'm going to investigate a little. I don't have much to lose, so I might remove the paint from a letter or two and try your Testor's idea. Thanks!
    Steve
     
  5. LFazio51

    LFazio51 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Beaumont, Texas
  6. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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  7. bryans12v

    bryans12v Marantz Junkie Subscriber

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    I'd there are any scratches that are deeper than the actual stamped lettering this would be very tough to accomplish.

    I also have a champagne engraved 1060 I was considering doing this exact task on. I was going to make a jig for my belt sander and test various grits on an old beat up faceplate. Of course it would have to be re anodized.
     
  8. LFazio51

    LFazio51 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Location:
    Beaumont, Texas
    A very ambitious endeavor to say the least! I would love to see a successful outcome!
     
  9. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Actually, the reason I'm considering this is because the scratches are not that deep. The main cosmetic problem is the missing anodizing around the edges. I think getting a fresh brushed surface and new anodizing would have it in great shape. I'm just unsure how to get the lettering back or if it is down in the engraved surface, whether it would be damaged in the anodizing process. .
     
  10. bluestime

    bluestime AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I would show it to a shop that does anodizing and see what they say. Perhaps they can clean up the edges and redo them.
     
  11. bryans12v

    bryans12v Marantz Junkie Subscriber

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    Location:
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    The fill / wipe technique should work.
     
  12. ajamesb

    ajamesb Acrylic Audio & Design

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    I refurbished two 2230 silver plates for a fellow collector here on AK who just let me know of this thread. Fortunately they were not engraved as this would have thrown an additional challenge at me. The fill and wipe suggestions might prove problematic for two reasons. First, the ridges in the brushed finish will hold your font paint especially if you thin it down. Second, whatever you would use to wipe with must be extremely flat and yet be able to absorb the excess paint which tends to make you want to push harder thereby removing much of the paint in the areas you need it to remain. Also, you would find that black, semi-gloss paint will dry or cure to more of a flat finish if you wipe it before it has set up.
    BTW, the two plates I refurbished only needed the fonts removed, and re-screen printed. The plates were in excellent shape otherwise. My comments as to refurbishing the plates themselves are from much experimenting with other Marantz plates I have from parts units. I have even purchased abused plates off Ebay to experiment with to determine the sand grit, sizing and anodization methods that yield the best results. With regard to sizing, or sanding the grit I have determined Marantz must have used #180. It seemed a bit coarse to me at first but #220 just didn't produce the same result. If you think about the process under production it might explain the subtle differences among plates of the same model as I have multiple units of various models which I have placed next to each other which brings these differences out. I say "process under production" as Marantz contracted for the production of its components in the hundreds if not thousands so a fresh #180 paper will yield a slightly different result from the 1st plate sanded to the 50th plate in a production run. This is because as the sand paper is used its "tooth" or bite is worn down. I would first use some scrap aluminum if you are on the right track, as well as wear down the initial sharpness of the sand grit until you see what you are after. Although setting up a sanding jig and doing this yourself is an option keep in mind under production these plates were fed through a large sizing machine that applied an even amount of pressure on the plate as it passed. Aluminum is soft so you may want to fabricate a stiff backer plate to use instead of your hands. Otherwise you may find that the areas where you are holding the plate will get sanded through first. The tendency then is to keep going until you move your hands around enough to sand the entire plate only to sanded too much material off especially if your plate is engraved.
    To remove the existing fonts/paint off the plates I got beyond the fear of damaging the anodized clear coat and discovered paint remover works best. Do this in sections where you can wipe it off as soon as it bubbles off the surface. Do not let it dry again as you wipe so moisten your cloth with thinner or minerals spirits ahead. You might even try a toothbrush to get into the engraved surfaces.
    Regarding the application of paint I had no success doing it myself so I found a typesetter to duplicate the Marantz fonts and created a digital file for use by my local screen printer use. The paint he used was an epoxy (two-part) semi-gloss black for its durability. The plates came out fantastic and my customer was extremely pleased with the results as you really could not tell any difference from the originals. Evidently the 2230 does have an issue with font wear as this unit has some pretty small numbers. This is getting a bit lengthy so I will stop here and see if you have any comments.
     
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  13. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Thanks for the comprehensive information! I guess my main question is, do you think the screen printing process is accurate enough to align exactly with the engraved parts of the plate? That seems like a tall order to me and is the main reluctance I have about doing this. I may want the name of the person who did your printing. Also, have you had the faces anodized after sanding them? And I guess the last question - since you have done this before, is this something you would tackle for a fee?
    Thanks!
    Steve
     
  14. ajamesb

    ajamesb Acrylic Audio & Design

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    This was my first thought as well. My company has the digital screen print file for the 2230, along with other Marantz units I have worked on but have to say the odds of precisely matching every edge of an engraved plate is a stretch. I am not trying to sell anything here. Most of what I have done has been for my own collection. My guy is very good (old school) which means he first had to develop each numerical and alphabetical Marantz font separately before scaling everything to a specific plate model. Then the scaled layout is further reviewed by overlaying it over the plate to be refinished before removing the fonts. A little known fact about Marantz I know on the top three receivers is the placement of fonts are not exactly the same among the same models as you might expect. I believe they ordered printing of similar plated models like the 2385. 2500, and 2600 with the individual model differences omitted for inventory purpose. Then as they decided to produce a certain number they would pull from inventory. The other explanation which is just as likely is that different plants produced the same models. I just know there are ever so slight differences.
    I have had a 2500 plate anodized clear and was not so impressed with the result, which only left me with the realization that the right anodizer is important. The outfit I went to was in high production and not so willing to take the time necessary to try and match my plates finish. I would look for a small anodizing shop who is willing to do one-offs. Fortunately I am not in need to pursue anodizing further so I left it there. There is another finishing process that is an alternative to anodizing which is burnishing the raw aluminum with an emery pad. I have not pursued this process beyond researching it briefly.
    There is a seller on Ebay doing multiple plate replacements in silver and black anodize colors. My guess is this seller has digitized the original plates through scanning which might be the way you want to go. If your plate could be scanned I could see where the resulting positive used for screen printing could be much more precise to your specific plate.
    Can you post pics of the edges you are concerned with, and the depth of the engravings on your plate?
    Thnx, Al
     
  15. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I will take some pics and post them up. My first impression is that the engraving is more shallow than some I have seen. I think even the small print around the knobs is usually engraved. It may be on this one, but if it is, it is very shallow. It's clearly engraved in the large letters at the top. Honestly, I haven't looked closely at the small print areas. I'll try to get some close-ups and post them. This is a very low serial number -- 1306 IIRC, so it could be a little different from higher numbers. Thanks for the interest! :thumbsup:
     
  16. AudioBugged

    AudioBugged New Member

    Messages:
    36
    If all fails you could always use a vintage rotary label maker ;)

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I'm sure it wouldn't affect the resale value. :eek:
     
  18. bberkom

    bberkom AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    709
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    If you are trying to get the engraved portions of the lettering filled by screen-printing, I doubt it will work very well. Screen printing can be very accurately aligned and produce very tight results, but registering precisely enough with small engraved type will prove extremely difficult, especially using a print file that is not the exact engraving artwork. The ink probably will not fill the engraved areas very well either, as screen printing ink is typically meant to be laid on the surface of a substrate. I would paint the engraved areas by hand and wipe excess paint as has been suggested or find a sign-painter near you if any still exist. Screen printing would be a great option for any surface-graphics, but you are looking at a lot of associated fees for artwork, screen, and print setup before you even get your single faceplate printed!
     
  19. Trojan4Life

    Trojan4Life Active Member

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    334
    Has anyone considered making a CAD model and using a laser engraver?
     
  20. bberkom

    bberkom AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    That's the real way to do this if you want paint-filled engraving and are creating a new faceplate. Cover the blank with laserable paint-mask beforehand, engrave through the mask and the metal. Paint over the engraved areas, and then remove the mask when paint is dried for nice crisp lines. But if you are trying to fill existing engraving on an existing faceplate...
     

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