New silkscreening on faceplates?

Discussion in 'Marantz Audio' started by Steven Tate, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. Dearslayer

    Dearslayer AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Wonder if Tony does a faceplate for the 2330. Love to have a black one for it.
     
  2. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I'm not sure, but I know he has the artwork for many models. He has a batch he is getting ready to have processed, so it might be a while before he does it again. He stressed this is a hobby, not a business, so the amount of time he can put into it is limited.
     
  3. Trojan4Life

    Trojan4Life Active Member

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    I disagree that the engraved faceplates were stamped- they were engraved with a pantograph or CNC milling machine, most likely by a shop or shops that Marantz purchased them from.

    However, if you have access to a CNC milling machine and CAD/CAM software, you can make your own.

    As someone is currently doing, the black faceplates are laser etched. You can't make a silver or champagne faceplate with a laser etcher because with the black faceplates, the laser cuts through the black anodize surface. You would have to have the reverse- a black surface underneath a silver colored anodized faceplate. Laser cutter/etchers can be used many files types and someone can scan a faceplate markings and easily produce a black anodized faceplate.

    A student copy of SolidWorks can be purchased for ~$1000 and a used laser cutter/etcher can be purchased for around $5000. Used CNC milling machines are expensive and you'll need CAM software.

    The problem is that getting a shop to do ONE faceplate is not cost effective. You could make a CAD model (SolidWorks, AutoCAD, ProEngineer/CREO, etc) and take it to a laser etcher (using black anodized aluminum plates) or have them milled. The issue becomes money- shops have a minimum rate and for many, it's not profitable to make one faceplate. For example, you can buy the glass faceplates from McIntosh, but they cost well over $125. Are people willing to pay that much for a new faceplate?

    You can learn CAD at your local community college, and many schools have laser cutter/etchers.

    Is there a market for $100+ faceplates?
     
  4. Marantz3650

    Marantz3650 Active Member

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    True.

    No idea how much cost for 2 faceplates......
    If it's too expensive.....then, my plan is to make 10-20 to reduce the costs for my 2 faceplates.

    I wanted a silk screen job......like the original.
     
  5. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Here's what Tony said about the engraving: if you look at the edges of any Marantz faceplate, the cut edge is not square, it's rolled due to the stamping. Same thing for the engraving. If you look closely, it also has a slightly rolled edge. It wouldn't be that way if it was engraved. Mine is S/N 1306 and the edges of the engraving are not perfectly square. They are slightly rolled. It's more noticeable on the large font "marantz". I can't speak for the entire run, but he has seen a lot of them and he thinks they are all stamped.
     
  6. Trojan4Life

    Trojan4Life Active Member

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    The edges aren't square because the faceplates WERE stamped, not the lettering. Learn about sheet metal stamping tools:



    Why would Marantz have stamped the faceplates and then started silkscreening the font? Cost. To stamp the faceplates, you need a die, they weren't/aren't inexpensive and they only last a certain number of parts before they have to be reworked/remade. You make a die(s) when you are manufacturing hundreds or thousands of the same part. Lettering, especially as small as the faceplate lettering, sure couldn't be done by stamping back in the 1970s.

    I've been involved in machining/sheetmetal fabrication since the late 1970s and know a couple things about manufacturing.

    Ask Tony if he can laser etch a silver or champagne faceplate for you. The answer will be no, because he's taking a black anodized faceplate and laser etching the lettering.

    Here's my part time job while I practice for full time retirement:

    http://cam.usc.edu

    Yes, I could make a faceplate, silver or black, but the cost would be about what the amp is worth. That's why a 100+ watt amp costs over $5000 today.
     
  7. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    For my purposes, it really doesn't matter whether it was stamped or engraved. And as I said, for my personal use, I'm going to have him make either a black or bronze deeply etched face. That will leave the lettering silver, which is fine with me. If I ever sell it, the new owner can decide if he wants to reinstall the engraved face or not. I will definitely keep it with the unit, and I can take my time deciding if a complete refurbish of the face is worth it.
     
  8. Dearslayer

    Dearslayer AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Just watched this video and its what my workplace does 24 hours a day. We stamp everything from full size body panels to small PIA's for assemblies for the big three and everyone in between in the Automotive industry. It's an interesting process for someone who hasn't seen it up close I guess but I've worked there for 25 years so it's just everyday stuff for me even though I no longer work in the plant side of it anymore and for the last 15 years work in our warehouse directly across the road. We have everything from gigantic presses in Press Shop to hydraulic presses for smaller parts. The Shear lines and blanking lines are pretty big as well and the cost to even make Dies and put it into production is pretty large and our contracts are for model years and every year of the contracts the customers want the parts produced at a lesser cost so volume has to be huge. Maybe a small stamping plant would take on smaller quantities but I don't imagine the cost to produce would be worthwhile.
     
  9. Trojan4Life

    Trojan4Life Active Member

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    Good ol' American manufacturing! Not too long before my Marantz 1200 was made, we sent a man to the moon and back with a computer that was much less powerful than your cellphone.
     
  10. Bourbon

    Bourbon Drinkin' and dreamin' Subscriber

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    Yep...and the problem (for me) is that the more exotic models weren't produced in high numbers. I'd love to get a new faceplate for my 3650, but I can't imagine a scenario in which it would be cost effective to produce them.
     
  11. 357sig

    357sig New Member

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    TMZ2 had made this model, I had purchased 2 of them. He has a pic on instagram of one on a unit.
     
  12. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    If he made them, then he has the artwork. For the 2230 that I am interested in, he said he has three sets of artwork because there are slight differences during the production run, and he isn't sure there aren't more.
     
  13. Awesomeaudio

    Awesomeaudio AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    There's always one in every bunch :rflmao:
    Great thread otherwise. :thumbsup:
     
  14. rxonmymind

    rxonmymind AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    What a timely thread.
    I'd love to get my hands on a Marantz 2500 faceplate. Missed my chance by a year or so as I saw one on the bay. I believe that was the last of them. Maybe I'm confusing it with a 2600. Ah, heck forgot which model I saw. :confused:
    Anyways, the work was amazing. Truly from what little I saw I can't imagine the time involved from beginning to end. Must be some serious hours. Hats of to those who do this.
     
  15. ajamesb

    ajamesb Acrylic Audio & Design

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    Are you sure the smaller fonts are engraved/stamped? As I recall I looked into some engraved units way back and concluded only the upper model #, logo and component description along the upper left, middle and right edge was actually engraved.
    I agree with bberkom's suggestion although it might prove a bit costly in the end. Pretty much all printed surfaces that are etched, stamped or engraved have a masking paper over them which is then knifed, or laser cut digitally then painted. My guess is that Marantz actually pressed these plates instead of engraving given the available technology back then.
     
  16. ajamesb

    ajamesb Acrylic Audio & Design

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    Rxonmymind. I have the 2500 main plate that I described getting anodized above. It is a clean, blank, clear-coated plate (same as the 2385, 2600) with no printing. Thought I might get it printed and put on the Bay but never got to it. The issue with these is trying to match them up with the finish of the inner dial plate. Anyway, message me if interested. Do not have the time presently to get the printing done so it would be just the blank plate.
     
  17. Steven Tate

    Steven Tate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I have looked closely and the small print at the bottom is definitely engraved (or stamped). Matching this up with artwork would be a real challenge.
     
  18. rxonmymind

    rxonmymind AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    James
    Very generous of you. I'll send a pm when I'm done with my to do list today.
    Cheers.
     
  19. Trojan4Life

    Trojan4Life Active Member

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