New to Digital, I want a Music Server and NAS, my head hurts!

[BruceRPA]

I have been reading and searching AK and elsewhere. It seems that the Linksys NAS200 gets panned for being too slow and quirky. If I understand it correctly, it seems to be ideal for use as a backup device, not a music server. On the other hand I found a lot of very interesting information on the Netgear RND2150 ReadyNAS Duo 500 GB Desktop Network Attached Storage, http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-RND21...tached/dp/B0013G04AQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top . After reading information and user reviews it would seem that this black box may be exactly what I am looking for! :scratch2: I sure would appreciate some feedback from you fine folks that know if I am actually on the right track here. I am a few bits short of a byte about being confident enough to take the plunge without some guidance here. I am excited about what I have read so far but I can handle the disappointment of being redirected.

 

[tmornini]

I want a music server that is independent of the computer(s) on my home network.

* I like the idea of having the NAS being independent of but fully compatible with the computer(s) and the music delivery hardware like the iPod and the Squeezebox.

I'd recommend a Macintosh or Windows machine (Macintosh prefered) connected to a Drobo unit for direct attached storage, or via DroboShare for a true NAS solution.

The Drobo is fantastic, easy to use reliable storage than can be trivially upgraded to larger capacity as larger hard drives become available.

Remote Airport Express units can ship uncompressed digital audio either wired or wirelessly to remote locations. For serious listening, optical outputs and a DAC of your choice can drive your equipment. For less demanding listening, RCA via the internal DAC on the Airport Express will serve admirably.

And, rather than LCD screens, an iPhone or iPod Touch with the fantastic Remote application will allow you to find and play your music via tags and playlists, searching, etc. *and* allow you to select which system(s) you want it to play out of, all with album art, full control, etc.

The only problem with this solution, and it *is* a problem (but hopefully not for too long, Apple!) is it's 44.1KHz sampling only and will not play the new high resolution formats.

 

[StyX]

Buy your computer savvy friend a couple of beers! :beer:

I don't know of a really easy way to set up the ultimate music server thingy.
But maybe I can give you some inspiration and ideas by telling you about how I did it?
I got myself a ultralowpower pc (Koolu, out of production now). It runs Ubuntu Linux. To that I attached 3x external USB drives, configured them in a sofware raid5 array. Installed Samba (for the NAS functionality) and the SqueezeCenter software. Tranferred my music archive (CDs ripped to FLAC) to the Raid array. Configured SqueezeCenter and started enjoying the tunes through the squeezebox!
I don't know how this works with Itunes since I don't have any Apple products.

Today I would probably use some sort of itx system with one small system hdd and two large hdds in raid1 for storage and a similar software setup.

But really, the fastest, safest, and most fun way of doing it is to share a couple of beers with that computer geek friend of yours! :beer:

 

[kamehany]

My Setup

I'm not a genius when it comes to this stuff, but I use the following:

Drobo → USB → DroboShare → CAT5 → Apple Time Capsule → wireless streaming → Apple Airport Express → optical mini-jack → McIntosh MDA1000 → → →

The nice thing about this is I can sit on my sofa, connected wirelessly to the Apple Time Capsule, and access all of my music and play it through iTunes. It's a beautiful thing. I don't have a great solution, other than iTunes on my computer, for choosing music while sitting on the sofa, though. I need to find some type of remote or tablet for this purpose.

I think using an "N" network is key. I had a lot of pauses in the music streaming when I was on a "G" network. I still get pauses on the "N" network (e.g. when searching for files on the Drobo while also streaming music), but the pauses are tolerable and few and far between.

I love the Drobo/DroboShare, but it is the weak link in my opinion as it is loud and hot if left on all the time. Additionally, the fan speeds up at random times and is very loud, especially if sitting in your living room. Despite all that, I still love the convenience, redundancy and look of the Drobo/DroboShare. It's very well done, but they do need to work on the noise in the next version. Please note, I have the Generation 1 version; the Generation 2 version may be better.

Personally, I would replace the Drobo/DroboShare with a McIntosh component if they had a larger drive than the MS750 (say 1TB - 4TB) or if the 750GB drive could be swapped out easily. I would be even happier if McIntosh used a completely silent solid state drive (without a fan), and I would be willing to pay an untold amount for such a component. Years down the road, I imagine!

 

[BruceRPA]

There have been several excellent answers to my initial request. Thank you one and all! :thmbsp:

After doing a fair amount of reading and research, as good as the Drobo + DroboShare looks, I think I am close to pulling the trigger on the NetGear RND2150 with two 500 GB drives listed under the “Combo” tab here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822122020 . The Drobo units do look to be very attractive but the comments by kamehany about the noise and the heat mirror several other comments that I have read about them and that is a deal breaker for me. My main PC is in our bedroom sitting area. The Macintosh solution is outside of my budget but is still on the radar for the future. The Netgear solution, especially with the combo deal with two drives, is by far the least expensive. The 750GB X 2 unit is only slightly more expensive. I just don’t know that I need to go that large.

If I understand things correctly I can accomplish my mission of having NAS to store music and “My Documents” as well as any other data files independent of any PC. That will allow scheduled backups to the second drive (and a third for off-site storage via USB), Sharing of those files within my local network and certain selected files outside of the network. The only other piece of hardware that I will need is a DAC like the Blue Circle “Thingy” for the PC in my basement macave. Wireless capability is not necessary at this point in time but it would be convenient later as the system expands. I can add a Squeezebox Duet at a later time as the need arises. Not that I am entirely confident about how to go about configuring all that properly and securely but I will allow for some “suds” in the budget as Styx suggested – or just ask my daughter that has an associates in IT to give Ol’ Dad a hand! Now there’s some R.O.I. if I ever saw any!

I really appreciate everyone’s help and suggestions. :yes: I know that I am far from being done with this process yet. The decision is by no means set in stone so if anyone thinks my approach is bad or if there are better solutions for this Digital Audio neophyte and IT novice, please let me know. For now the Netgear RND2150 looks to me to be the closest thing to an affordable Music Server in a box as I can find.

 

[BruceRPA]

Update: I ordered the Netgear ReadyNAS Duo 2175 with two 750GB drives and 1GB of memory. (FWIW - My research indicates that Newegg has some very attractive deals on these things through the end of October.) It arrived on Friday and I installed it this weekend. Everything went smoothly and it appears to be working fine with one minor issue that is probably not related to the NAS. I am sure that I have not configured everything as well as it can be but for an IT novice I am pretty happy with where I am so far. I am reasonably comfortable working in and around PC hardware and on the outer layers of Windows but the finer points and details of network configuration is uncharted waters for me. Overall I am very impressed with the Duo and I look forward to learning more about it's capabilities.

The issue that I mentioned earlier is that my man cave PC only sees about 3/4 of the music in my iTunes library. The remaining music is visible and plays perfectly from the NAS on my main PC where I performed the installation. I can also play all of the library music on the man cave PC if I manually navigate to the folder on the NAS and look through the listings in list view only. They never show up in album view at all even though I have the man cave PC pointed at the same iTunes library on the NAS. I did do an iTunes "Consolidate" on both the main PC and the man cave PC. That did bring in a lot of the missing (from the man cave PC) album cover art that had to be manually loaded when certain CDs were originally loaded into the library. :scratch2: I don't know what to do about that so I appreciate any suggestions.

I have not tried to install or use Squeezecenter(?) yet even though this NAS is supposed to have the necessary support software (for my lack of better terminology to describe it) for Squeezebox integration (that I do not yet own).

I think this thing is going to not only be a real safety net for my data but it will be a fun and useful tool too!

 

[BruceRPA]

I have tried several different things to fix that iTunes problem that I mentioned in the previous post without success. Can anyone offer a suggestion about what I should look for?

 

[kamehany]

I've had a similar problem in the past. It happened under three scenarios:

1) When using "Add Folder to iTunes," if the computer is interupted or powers down before the whole folder has been uploaded/synced. Make sure your computer does not automatically turn off after a certain amount of time, or else periodically move the mouse as the files are uploading/syncing.

2) Some times, if you have Games or other files already on your system, it will ask if you want to replace them (while it's updating the music files). If you click Cancel instead of Replace, I think the music folder upload/sync stops at that point.

3) I also had bad sectors/blocks on my drive at one point, and the upload of the iTunes music would always stop at that point. I used Chkdsk to verify there were bad sectors/blocks and then used that same Chkdsk to fix the problem. The next time I added the folder to iTunes it worked fine.

Other than that, I would just make sure you have the latest version of iTunes.


One question, though, which may help you figure it out. Is there any relationship to the missing files (e.g. kind, folder location, all missing songs start with the letters F-Z (see #2 above))?

Good luck!

 

[BruceRPA]

There are no computer or HD problems that I am aware of. There is no pattern that I can see to the missing music either. I am going to work on it a bit (Ha, I made a pun!) more and if I don't get it straightened out I will uninstall iTunes from the man cave PC and reinstall it. By the way, my playlists do not show up on the man cave PC either. I did not try to Sync anything, I just ran "Consolidate" the library both on the main PC where I did the install from and on the man cave PC. I thought Sync was just for use with external devices like the iPod. Maybe I am wrong about that. Could that be all there is to the problem?

 

[BruceRPA]

I have managed to make some good progress. Both PCs share the same Music folder on the NAS and I have found a relatively easy way to have new music that gets added via the "main' PC show up on the man cave PC. Some of the problems that I struggled with have to do with the term "library" it applies to iTunes. As I now understand the term "Library", it means the library of links to the music located in the music folder (in this case located on the NAS). I had thought that the "Library" was the music itself, not just the links to it. I am still not so sure that I have it exactly correct or that my attempt to explain it as I understand it is accurate.

The things that I did to allow the music to be shared (without duplicates) are as follows:

• Delete all music from the local PCs after confirming that the Music folder on the NAS contains all of the music and does not contain unnecessary duplicates. (This step may not actually be necessary)
• Un-check "search for shared libraries" in iTunes.
• Edit: Do use the "Consolidate" function on iTunes after adding new music, but only on the "main" PC.
• After adding a new CD from the "main" PC, on the other PCs, use the "Add folder to library" by navigating to that new file within the music folder on the NAS. If I add a new CD from the mancave PC it seems to work OK but then that PC hangs until I reset it or manually power down. That may be just a local problem that I am experiencing at this point in time.

I am sure that I am not done with this yet but for now it does seem to be working as I had hoped. Thanks everyone for your help and tips. :thmbsp:

I am having a problem that really bothers me though. Even with all three PCs on my wired network powered down and with the wireless receiver disabled in the Westel DSL modem / router / firewall, I see almost constant drive activity indicated on the router with Internet access indicated every 20 or so seconds. I also have the routers firewall configured to only see the MAC address' of the three hardwired PCs and the NAS. I don't have Bit Torrent enabled on the NAS and, as far as I know, the only files on the NAS are documents and music data files. I do have iTunes installed on two PCs and there is an iTunes folder that gets automatically installed in the "My Music" folder of the "My Documents" directory on the NAS. Other than that, I have no idea what could be causing the drive activity or the Internet access that I am seeing evidence of on the router. Is there a utility that I can get that will show me what traffic is on my network and especially what the activity is with the Internet access? Any advice here will be appreciated. I don't know how or where else to look.

I will add that I have Norton 360 installed (that I hate!) on all three PCs and I have performed scans using AdAware and Spybot Search and Destroy. None of them have indicated any problems.

 

[hypertone]

There is a program called Wireshark. You need to connect your PC with a HUB (not a switch) to the network segment you want to capture packets on. Most likely what you are seeing is the NAS broadcasting UPNP announcements. You can capture these packets on wireless, or plugged into the router's switch ports (don't need a hub). As long as your hardware firewall is working properly you are OK. I'm not sure what you mean by having the firewall configured to see the 3 MAC addresses? Do you mean you have these registered in DHCP? You could do an online port scan to verify that you have no ports open.

 

[BruceRPA]

Prior to just finding and reading your post hypertone (I don't know how I missed it, but I did.), at the suggestion of tech support at Netgear and after trying a few other things, I installed a small 5-port switch and that appears to have solved the problem of the mysterious constant drive access on the ReadyNas Duo. I also no longer hear the drive access activity for no apparent reason. I am not confidant that I am out of the woods yet but I will feel better after I get a response from Netgear tech support once they look at the logs. Nearly everything that I see in the logs is way over my head but I was able to see that the drive successfully spun down after the programmed time of no activity. Prior to installing the switch the constant drive access, apparently due to nearly constant disconnect > connect activity, did not allow time for the drive to spin down. I think that my several year old Verizon provided Westel 327W DSL modem / firewall / HW + wireless router may be the root of the problem.

I hope that this isn't too far off topic of PC Music servers but my hope is that the fine folks that read this forum are most likely to have the information that I am seeking. I am prepared to replace and upgrade the Westel 327W with a newer device or devices but I could use some suggestions as what product(s) to choose. My primary concerns, in the order of priority, are security (a good firewall is a must), reliability, ease of installation and use (considering my rather limited knowledge and experience), and wireless capability. I can (or already have) run network wires anywhere I need to in my home so wireless access is only a convenience for me. I do like to have the ability to use a laptop or my iPod touch, or who knows what may be next, wirelessly in and around my home from time to time. Security is a prime concern so being able to limit access to only those devices that I choose (MAC filtering?) is important to me. I would also like to be able to hide the wireless network from neighbors that may consider it sporting to to try to intrude. I don't have any need to allow the wireless network to be "open". Locked as tightly as possible is a good thing for me. If someone can provide suggestions for a product or products to accomplish all that for me I sure will appreciate the advice. Keep in mind though that this is a residential application with limited numbers (5~6 ?) of connected devices as opposed to a business or commercial environment.

Once again, I appreciate everyone's time and assistance. :thmbsp:

 

[Gone Johnson]

You are all amazing. I sell software to radio stations that provides scheduling and playout of audio from a hard drive. We have systems with 128 audio servers and maybe a total of 4-600 workstation under one roof. I would have never expected someone to talk about mapping drives and DHCP on a home system. Wow, this is amazing. I hope you don't scare the off the guy that did the original post with all the applications that you have added to make your systems work. Cool stuff. I appreciate all the great information.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Hi,

My first music server will be a retired BSI Simian box with AudioScience cards. Uncompressed WAV files and no DRM to deal with. Used with one system in my bedroom.