New to SACD... Can anyone school me?

Discussion in 'Digital Sources' started by jobrewer1983, Oct 13, 2016.

  1. jobrewer1983

    jobrewer1983 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,543
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Hi All,

    I hope this is the correct area of AK to post a question regarding SACD's. If not, I can move the thread to the General postings. I just did not see a "CD" portion of AK. We have "Tape" though...

    I recently picked up a (Denon DVD-5900) DVD-A/SACD player. I have really been enjoying CD's again, its been quite a while since I've purchased an actual CD. A good portion of my albums are in Flac/Mp3, or vinyl format. I do understand that the SACD is simply the DSD File. I know what the format is, but have a few questions I hope some folks can answer. Again, I'm new to SACD's as a format, but the single disc I did listen to was pretty damn amazing.

    My questions:

    1. I notice that quite a few of the SACD's specifically say for 5.1 audio. Does that mean they wont sound as good on a 2 channel set up? Do they make different SACD's for 5.1 and 2 channel set ups?

    2. Direct Mode, and DSD Adaptors: The player can be played in Direct mode, and my amp (Pioneer Elite A-71) has the ability to receive and play in direct mode. While I have not tested this out yet, wondering if that will enhance the DSD Files? Also, will a DSD adaptor give any real upgrade to the sound quality. I know that is subjective, but if you have any info that would be helpful.

    3. Is it possible to rip a SACD? I don't want to rip and convert to a lower grade format, I'm wondering if its possible to rip the DSD File directly off the disc? Not sure I would do it, but is this possible?

    Lastly,

    Any good suggestions on albums to pick up in SACD? I'm sure I will be looking for all my favorite albums in SACD, I ordered the "Dire Straits, Brothers in Arms" album, cant wait to test it out. The CD, is good, the Vinyl is great, so I'm hoping the SACD is even better.

    Thank you for the time!

    Kind Regards,
    John
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. Redikilowatt

    Redikilowatt Audio Understudy Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,540
    Location:
    RTP, NC
  3. Aspen

    Aspen Active Member

    Messages:
    317
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    1. usually they are hybrid discs that have SACD 5.1, SACD 2.0 and CD 2.0 and will play on both a SACD player and a CD player. Depends on the disc.
    2. yes that's want you want direct mode DSD to DSD in the amp. should sound fine. I play 5.1 SACD via HDMI to my Yamaha AVR.
    3. I think there is a way involving a Sony playstation and some voodoo. There may be something easier.

    I have 3 SACDs, The Brothers in Arms album is excellent, so are Floyd DSOTM and Wish You Were Here.
     
  4. jobrewer1983

    jobrewer1983 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,543
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Thank you Roger, thank you for the thread! Ill be doing some reading tonight.

    Aspen,

    Thank you!

    On the 3rd question, a Playstation... To Rip? This I need to find out. I read many reviews on how the PS is a great audio device, but I did not know it was possible to rip. Thank you for the info in the 5.1 discs, as my set up is a 2 channel set up, I was worried I would be spinning my wheels purchasing any of the discs labeled "5.1" Ill be sure to be mindful of the disc I purchase. Great info!

    I cant wait to get my Brothers in Arms album now.

    Kind Regards,
    John
     
  5. uofmtiger

    uofmtiger Super Member

    Messages:
    4,697
    Location:
    Memphis
    The PS3 is the one that could rip them. However, the last time I checked, it had to be running very old firmware.

    https://newtoolbox.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/sacd-ripper-primer-v4-0.pdf
     
  6. for_p1

    for_p1 Addicted Member

    Messages:
    5,470
    Location:
    NJ

    1. All 5 channels SACD also include stereo version of content. It may sound different though.
    2. Direct mode in AVR bypasses any sound processing, like room correction, speakers trim etc. In some AV receivers it means that DSD stream will be sent directly to DAC. Any sound processing requires conversion to PCM. Some believe that this conversion degrades sound quality. Lower cost AVR always convert DSD to PCM before sending stream to DAC. All this only important if you only use HDMI connection from player to AVR.
    3. You can rip SACD to DSD encoded files using old PS3 or latest Oppo player. In both cases you have to use free software tools available in Internet. There are many web sites with instructions. To play these files you will need computer and external DAC that supports DSD. It always means USB connection between com0uter and DAC.
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  7. sKiZo

    sKiZo Hates received: 8641 Subscriber

    One thing to remember ... if you see something you like, snap it up. Prices tend to rise quickly on the more popular releases.
     
  8. Lesterbest

    Lesterbest Super Member

    Messages:
    1,600
    There's a gazillion threads. Google `em. Show some initiative.
     
  9. jobrewer1983

    jobrewer1983 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,543
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Show some initiative... what is the point of asking questions on a thread? That was my initiative. What makes you think I did not Google it?

    I've read quite a bit over the past few weeks, I guess I could have looked up suggestions on albums... forgive me for not realizing that...

    How about being a normal person on line? Correcting someone for asking a question on an open thread... Asshole.

    If you were to read other threads I have posted, you would realize that I do quite a bit of research. Like I said, I'm new to SACD, and assumed that AudioKarma (an audio forum) would be a better site to gather info from, rather than just using Google.
    .
    Its users like this that keep me from subscribing again. Go outside and get some fresh air Lesterbest. No need to be an ass.
     
  10. jobrewer1983

    jobrewer1983 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,543
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    That is pretty cool that the PS3 can play SACD. I did not realize the following of the format was as vast as it was until last night. I read quite a bit of the thread that Roger provided. Great info. Gave me some good information.

    Regards,
    John
     
    uofmtiger likes this.
  11. jobrewer1983

    jobrewer1983 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,543
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Thank you Skizo, I'm realizing that is the case. I was on a few sites last night and it seems that there is a strong following of folks who love the format.
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  12. jobrewer1983

    jobrewer1983 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,543
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Thank you for_p1,

    I ended up reading my user manual last night. I found out that DSD Adaptor on my amp can open the path for DSD Files to be read. Basically it can preform the same function as the DSD adaptor I was considering. My next step is to set up the DSD set up on the player itself. The manual says it can switch on and off automatically, or can be manually switched. I just need to do the needed steps to set it up. I will be playing with that function this evening.

    Again, thank you for the information.

    Kind Regards,
    John
     
  13. vap0rtranz

    vap0rtranz New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Just got my 1st SACD -- wow! Who on Earth said the format failed?! That it sounded just like CD?! Because I'm blown away: The dynamics! The brightness! It's like I'm at a concert sitting in front row!!

    Here's my setup:
    • Onkyo TX-NR515 - w/ 5.0 setup*, Audyssey 2EQ config, on Multichannel for SACD or on PLII Music Orchestra for CD
    • Oppo DV981HD - w/ SACD setup as preferred format, HDMI (1.1? have to check) to A/V on Raw out
    • Pioneer CLD 79 Elite - w/ Direct CD, Legato Link, and coax to the A/V
    • Klipsch Quartets* fronts, Klipsch KC5 center, Klipsch KG 2.2 rears (holding back on subwoofer so neighbors don't hate me even more ... the Quartets cause broomsticks to be pounded on my ceiling to "hush up")
    Most important: a hybrid SACD of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra's Resound remastering of its 1957 recording of Dvorak's New World, with named DSD engineer. So I can listen to the same musicians via the same recording on the same system. And geeze: listening on CD, even with PLII which usually livens up old recording but even Direct (stereo passthru), it just didn't have the range or clarity of the SACD in surround. It was like sitting next to the orchestra pit!

    Buyer beware!! YOU MAY NEVER GO BACK!!! :)
     
    Decatur Greg, PAGS and jobrewer1983 like this.
  14. jobrewer1983

    jobrewer1983 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,543
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Nice!

    Hi vap0rtranz,

    Welcome to AK, you will fit right in!! Nice set up! I'm running a 2 channel set up (See system specs in signature). I bet surround would be great in SACD!

    So I got my copy of "Brothers In Arms" in on Friday. Threw it in the player, and sat back. I as well was very happy, but still did not try to use the "Direct Mode".

    The sound stage was quite impressive. "Your Latest Trick" (Track 4) guitar riff was reaching out and smacking in the face. I was grinning from ear to ear!
    Decided to test out the Direct mode, had to connect the player to the TV, get into the settings and change it to "Direct", than changed the setting on my amp.

    WOW, I could not believe it. I don't think it sounds like CD at all. I than decided to play my copy of the CD. Yea, no comparison. The SACD blew the CD out of the water. I also threw the vinyl on, and yea it was on par with the SACD. The SACD did have a clearer tone than the vinyl, but both sounded great to my ears. The SACD has a more of an analog sound when compared to CD.

    The lower tones were a lot easier to hear, compared to the CD. The lack of clicks and pops on the SACD to the vinyl was nice... Mind you I have a mint copy of the album on vinyl... Just saying for other albums, its quite nice.

    I ended up ordering a few more albums, cant wait to give them a go. I was a little hesitant to start spending the $$ on a new format, but now I'm sold.

    Now the fun part... The hunt for SACD's!!!

    Kind Regards,
    John
     
  15. KeninDC

    KeninDC Speedfreak Jive Subscriber

    Messages:
    12,005
    Location:
    Virginia
    You'll find there are many DSD/SACD fans on this site. Quite often, the mastering done for an SACD is another factor in what makes it sound so darn good. A good SACD can rival all-analog vinyl, IMO. All depends on your setup, etc. In general, I find the high end (cymbal, etc.) more natural on an SACD as compared to a CD.

    If you are a Stones fan, know that ABKCO released hybrid SACD/CD discs back in 2002. These are now out of print (OOP), so if you see one at your local used CD palace, grab it.
     
    hjames likes this.
  16. PAGS

    PAGS AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,997
    Location:
    North of Philly
    If you like classical, a lot of the "Living Stereo" series from the 1950s and 1960s can be found at very reasonable prices (comparatively speaking), with many recordings priced under $10.
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  17. PAGS

    PAGS AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,997
    Location:
    North of Philly
    My go to sources for new SACDs, in order of priority (in case anyone is interested):

    1. Import CDs - good catalog and best prices, even with shipping
    2. CD Japan - it's fun getting packages from Japan
    3. Amazon - often not the cheapest, but free shipping with Prime
    4. Music Direct and Acoustic Sounds - tied for 4; both on the pricey side, but have discs that others may not

    If you're into classical, Presto Classical in the UK looks interesting, but I've never purchased from them. http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/sacd.php
    The prices seem really good with current exchange rate being what it is.
     
  18. jobrewer1983

    jobrewer1983 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,543
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Thank you KeninDC,

    I am a Stones fan, and will be keeping an eye out. Now that I have this love for SACD, I ended up calling the local Streetlight yesterday and asked if they carry any of the format. They actually do... They said I can go in and they can show me what they have. They said ill need to do the hunting, but they can let me know what is in stock..

    Ill be headed out this Sunday to see what I can find.

    Kind Regards,
    John
     
    KeninDC likes this.
  19. jobrewer1983

    jobrewer1983 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,543
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Thank you PAGS,

    I ordered from Import CD's, and you are correct, they have a great selection.

    There is also: http://www.sa-cd.net/

    I've not used them yet, but I'm looking to do so in the near future.

    Thank you for the info!

    Kind Regards,
    John
     
  20. analoge4ever

    analoge4ever Active Member

    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Lock Haven, PA
    Really nice thread! I've been considering the format for some time now, but it seems no matter how much I learn I find out something new every day which just serves to demonstrate how little I really know.

    I have a PCMI recorder which I use to capture live performances. Then the fun part starts, mixing and creating the master. One thing I have learned is that the 99% solution equals failure and most CDs sound the way they do because somewhere in the process someone made a less then optimal choice. Notice I'm not claiming a mistake was made, there are many ways to mix with often entirely different outcomes. What I'm wondering is how would a perfectly optimized CD compare tp the SACD, perhaps it's closer then you think?
     
    jobrewer1983 likes this.

Share This Page