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hello all, just wanted to extent a big warm thanks for all of your kind replies and for creating this great site. I really appreciate it! I asked about record cleaning techniques, wanted to restate my question and hope you don't mind. I've scoured the internet ad-nauseum reading about a gillion record cleaning techniques and have spoken to a few of the so called experts, Its funny how not many people seem to agree on a good technique and some of them, as you know, are just ridiculous (sand paper, culinary herbs...etc...)

So here is what I did with my first ~450 records and would sure appreciate some feedback:

I used Vinyl Doctor cleaner and the felt pads that he or MOFI sell. I put the records on a bamboo lazy Susan that I got at at Ikia with a cork 12" mat for putting plants on that I got at Home Depot. I went over them with cleaning solution and the pad for a few revolutions then hit them with the dish sprayer in my sink with a good strong spray and did a final rinsing with distilled water, gently dried them with a lint free cloth and, after they're dry, went over them with the old school Disk Washer and some lab grade purified water from the chemistry lab at Webster University for quite a few revolutions.

Two things: I have since switched to Tergitol cleaning solution which is what the Library of Congress uses but have not yet tried it. The guy who sent me a free tube of it told me to stop using tap water at all and use one of those sprayers for weed killer and distilled water because he said "the contaminants in tap water adhere to the vinyl and not even an additional rinse with distilled will remove it". I'm not sure If I buy into that but I'll call the chemistry dept. tomorrow and see if they have an opinion.

Note: I know several people have told me to get the vacuum attachment and I've been resistant to that because it just seems like a huge hassle.

Other solutions I've read good reviews on are:

ITM-8 From Groovy Hi Fi
Aivs formula15 32 oz. recommended by Jim Pendleton, Osage Audio who I spoke to
MOFI enzymatic cleaner
L’Art Du Son

I'm certainly trying, thanks!!!
 
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Agree there is no consensus on record cleaning methods. I think common sense would eliminate any abrasive solutions or scrubbers. But there is little consensus on any subject here. IMO, that is ok. What forums do, disagree.
Having cleaned your records and rinsed with Distilled water. IMO the next step of lab grade purified water is overkill. What I read the distilled water reduces mineral buildup in grooves. Yes a vacumn is a hassle. But I do it. But 450 records would take forever., vacumning.
I think ultrasonic would do best job cleaning. But expensive bought or DIY build.
 
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Agree there is no consensus on record cleaning methods. I think common sense would eliminate any abrasive solutions or scrubbers. But there is little consensus on any subject here. IMO, that is ok. What forums do, disagree.
Having cleaned your records and rinsed with Distilled water. IMO the next step of lab grade purified water is overkill. What I read the distilled water reduces mineral buildup in grooves. Yes a vacuum is a hassle. But I do it. But 450 records would take forever., vacuuming.
I think ultrasonic would do best job cleaning. But expensive bought or DIY build.

Yes, I like all that you say. I will tell you that cleaning 450 or 500 records I have up until now the way I described was a hero's j yuourney :p
I ran over them with the vintage Disk Washer twenty or thirty or more revolutions on my turn table with the lab grade water as a final touch. I get the water free from the University so it's fun to use it being the eternal perfectionist I am. I think what I'm really trying to do is find
a not good but great way to clean records and at the same time create some kind of order to this madness on line about cleaning records.
It certainly would be a daunting task with out unlimited funds and time for ultrasonic and other expensive record cleaning devices. The
horror I live with, besides selling two full peaches crates of vintage, best music ever in your life records for approximately a dollar a pieces because I thought fifteen years ago vinyl was dead. Alas, life goes on but it's still very painful like losing a lover and a friend.
Agree there is no consensus on record cleaning methods. I think common sense would eliminate any abrasive solutions or scrubbers. But there is little consensus on any subject here. IMO, that is ok. What forums do, disagree.
Having cleaned your records and rinsed with Distilled water. IMO the next step of lab grade purified water is overkill. What I read the distilled water reduces mineral buildup in grooves. Yes a vacumn is a hassle. But I do it. But 450 records would take forever., vacumning.
I think ultrasonic would do best job cleaning. But expensive bought or DIY build.

"IMO the next step of lab grade purified water is overkill. What I read the distilled water reduces mineral buildup in grooves."
Yes but I use the lab grade water after using tap water.

Do you have a suggestion for where to buy a record vacuum and or a place to purchase a DIY ultrasonic cleaner? I guess you're talking about the vacuum attachment that you can buy and put on the end of a shop vac hose? I've seen those on-line. I also have some links somewhere for parts for a DIY ultrasonic project but they're still pretty expensive. If you're going to spend several hundred dollars the automated ones, Nitty Gritty...etc... seem like a lot less hastle it seems, fully automated, etc... which is an advantage but I've also read a few places that the ultrasonic does a better job.

*Another funny thing I've noticed is that so many people take the records out of the sleeve by pinching them with their thumb and first finger on the edge of the record. This drives me crazy as that's usually the scratchiest part of most records! I put my fingers on the label at the center of the record and thumb on the edge. I've read that another reason for this is that static electricity causes dust particles to accumulate at the edge of records (Thus a reason to buy a zero stat gun) but I'd bet money it's also caused by mishandling them.
 
IMG_20170417_094316.jpg
My cleaning is not sophisticated. I cleaned on this old TT that I grounded for safety. I added Spinclean bath system that cleans both sides st once. Drip in dish drainer. Rinse on TT with non-slip mat. Use Mofi cloth brush ( black) or red paint trimmers. The red cloth vac adapter I bought on Ebay. Have not used yet. So can't report how it works. I have a small shop vac, which is loud. Some people put them in sound deadening boxes.
I like the Mofi plastic record sleeves. Use after cleaning.
I remove records with fingers around edge and thumb at center. Never touch grooves.
Before retirement, I worked in machine shop environment. Ultrasonic was the method used to fine clean gages etc after precleaning by other methods. I have not investigated ultrasonic units. Ones I have seen special built are really expensive. Have seen some AK posting of DIY motorized spiner of ganged separated records in a purchased ultasonic tank.
I assume the ultrasonic movement of the water helps dislodge dirt grease in bottom of grooves. None of the brushes with other methods actually get in the grooves. They just agitate fluids above grooves, IMO.
 
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View attachment 911667
My cleaning is not sophisticated. I cleaned on this old TT that I grounded for safety. I added Spinclean bath system that cleans both sides st once. Drip in dish drainer. Rinse on TT with non-slip mat. Use Mofi cloth brush ( black) or red paint trimmers. The red cloth vac adapter I bought on Ebay. Have not used yet. So can't report how it works. I have a small shop vac, which is loud. Some people put them in sound deadening boxes.
I like the Mofi plastic record sleeves. Use after cleaning.
I remove records with fingers around edge and thumb at center. Never touch grooves.
Before retirement, I worked in machine shop environment. Ultrasonic was the method used to fine clean gages etc after precleaning by other methods. I have not investigated ultrasonic units. Ones I have seen special built are really expensive. Have seen some AK posting of DIY motorized spiner of ganged separated records in a purchased ultasonic tank.
I assume the ultrasonic movement of the water helps dislodge dirt grease in bottom of grooves. None of the brushes with other methods actually get in the grooves. They just agitate fluids above grooves, IMO.


Update: I just spoke with a PhD. organic chemistry professor at Webster University and he said, for what it's worth, that he doesn't think anything from tap water will adhere to a record if you rinse it with distilled water afterwords or that, "It would be so diluted that it wouldn't matter". He said deionized water would be better but, of course, that's not practical unless you have a water deionizer in your basement. I have not tried the Tergital yet but will soon and will post a report on it's effectiveness. Looks like our cleaning methods are a bit similar Old Guy8, thanks.
 
A lovely little rig and I would recommend some research on speaker placement. Not only top inversion but also up off the floor and out from the corner.

Some great stuff here and check out the Speaker Placement Calculators for your particular room. While I know that most of us don't have the space to follow George's ideas to the letter it does help us to get more out of the space with modest tweaking.

http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php
 
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A lovely little rig and I would recommend some research on speaker placement. Not only top inversion but also up off the floor and out from the corner.

Some great stuff here and check out the Speaker Placement Calculators for your particular room. While I know that most of us don't have the space to follow George's ideas to the letter it does help us to get more out of the space with modest tweaking.

http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php

Much appreciation, I will see what I can do but space is limited.
 
I had double New Advents for many years (still have single pair). I would recommend inverting the upper pair to get tweeter spacing closer for minimizing combing effects.

Wouldn't those who like to stack their speakers be much better off disconnecting the tweeters in the bottom pair? The possibility of comb filtering would be all but eliminated, seems to me.
Of course, you might lose about 3dB in tweeter output levels, but the whole idea is supposedly about increasing bass output in relation to the hi frequencies.

Or, maybe I'm missing something.

(Keep in mind that I'm listening to one of my Advents right now from behind a door! That should give you some idea about just how picky I am. ;) )

GeeDeeEmm
 
Record stand looks great! But, gee whiz, you must be as old as I am to enjoy that collection of golden oldies! (Says the guy who still listens to Blood, Sweat, and Tears III every day!!!)

GeeDeeEmm
 
Record stand looks great! But, gee whiz, you must be as old as I am to enjoy that collection of golden oldies! (Says the guy who still listens to Blood, Sweat, and Tears III every day!!!)

GeeDeeEmm
I'm 51, listening to Captain Fantastic and The Brown Dirt Cowboys as I type this :)
 
If I remember correctly, the age poll recently showed that the majority of folks on this board are 50 or over. Before that poll, I'd always envisioned myself communicating with twenty-somethings. Nope. Largely a group of older guys pursuing hifi instead of hi-maintenance women! Maybe that's why so many of our wives tolerate our harmless obsession.

GeeDeeEmm
 
Hey, just wondering, has anyone here done any work on their turntables? I have a Dual and need to replace the hydraulic fluid in the
little reservoir that makes the tone arm lower slowly. I found the fluid, it's 500,000 weight and just was wondering if anyone knows how
hard it is to do this. I'd hate to mess up my turntable trying to fix it.
 
If I remember correctly, the age poll recently showed that the majority of folks on this board are 50 or over. Before that poll, I'd always envisioned myself communicating with twenty-somethings. Nope. Largely a group of older guys pursuing hifi instead of hi-maintenance women! Maybe that's why so many of our wives tolerate our harmless obsession.

GeeDeeEmm
Oh if I could only have back the record collections I lost when I was younger!! :eek:
 
Me, too! I gave my boxes away to a friend in the eighties. I don't worry about it too much, though. Even though I have a nice turntable and cartridge, I consistently listen to CDs. If I want to "warm" them up a bit, I transfer them to R2R and listen that way. It's remarkable what a quality R2R will do for a CD. I have no way to explain it - or even confirm that it's true - but it seems to me that tape gives a CD a more vinyl sound to it, but without the pops and scratches and other issues. Not to mention the amazing experience of watching those reels go round and round! That's probably the "reel" magic. The rest is probably wishful thinking. And hearing.

GeeDeeEmm
 
Me, too! I gave my boxes away to a friend in the eighties. I don't worry about it too much, though. Even though I have a nice turntable and cartridge, I consistently listen to CDs. If I want to "warm" them up a bit, I transfer them to R2R and listen that way. It's remarkable what a quality R2R will do for a CD. I have no way to explain it - or even confirm that it's true - but it seems to me that tape gives a CD a more vinyl sound to it, but without the pops and scratches and other issues. Not to mention the amazing experience of watching those reels go round and round! That's probably the "reel" magic. The rest is probably wishful thinking. And hearing.

GeeDeeEmm
I'd love to get a R2R, I didn't know that and anything reminiscent of the sixties I'm interested in. Is it true that tube amps are hands down better than solis state?
 
1. Reel to Reels are fantastic. And a nightmare to buy. Over the last two years or so I have purchased six R2Rs (waiting for another delivery now). Out of the five that were shipped to me, four came thru shipment damaged. Only one of the five worked as described. It was one of the damaged ones. One of them, which I picked up myself (a big, beautiful Sony TC755 ten-incher.) It worked perfectly when I took it home, but within a few weeks it started malfunctioning. The Sony "service" center charged me $240 to repair it.

Ebay sellers are totally without a clue when it comes to R2Rs. Most of them will say "tested," but when you quizz the seller about the testing, they say that they turned it on and the lights worked and the reels turned - without any tape loaded. That "test" is meaningless.

Other sellers will list their decks as "serviced." This can mean anything, and mostly means nothing. I won't touch a serviced deck unless a bill of repair can be presented. Otherwise, I will pass or offer what a parts deck is worth.

I talked to a lady last week whose ad proclaimed, "Works great." When I pinned her down on it, she admitted that she had done no testing, didn't know how to test, and didn't even have a roll of tape. Why did she say it works great? Because that's what the previous owner told her.

I tell you this so that you will be forearmed when searching for a R2R. First, choose what format you want: 10" reels or 7" reels. Then features: auto-reverse; solenoid controls or the old-style levers; 2 track, four track, or four track "surround." (Some decks will play back pre-recorded surround but record only in stereo.) The easiest and most common format is four track stereo record and playback. That means that the deck will record/play only two tracks per pass using tracks 1/3 or 2/4 depending on which side of the reel is playing.

The ultimate consumer deck is a 10" unit with solenoid controls, three direct drive motors, four track stereo, and automatic reverse. Example, the TEAC A6300

TEAC A6300.jpg



Most folk would rather stick with the less-expensive 7" format, but with all the features mentioned. I like Teac decks for their ruggedness, parts availability, and easy to work on architecture. But I simply love Akai decks because they look more modern, parts availability, and, best of all, their glass-encased heads which require almost no maintenance and which last forever.

In the 7" decks, I like the Teac A4300SX Teac A4300SX.jpg

And the beautiful Akai GX-266D AKAI GX-266D.jpg GX-265D Akai GX-265D.jpg
and GX-255. akai GX-255.jpg

2. "Is it true that tube amps are hands down better than solid state?"
No. Absolutely untrue. I own solid state and tube gear, and the tube gear, while magical and mysterious and glorious to look at, is in no way superior in accurate sound reproduction. Why do people rave about tubes? Because tubes do one thing that we humans have a tendency to like quite a lot: tubes induce distortion. And, for reasons only known to our Creator, many of us like the way tubes produce distortion. Rather than bore you with long explanations as to why this is true, I'll refer you to a site that lays it all out scientifically: https://numeralnine.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/a-brief-guide-to-audio-for-the-skeptical-consumer/ Read #5 initially to answer your question, then go back and read the entire article. For any audiophile who desires to be scientifically truthful, this entire article will weed out the lies, foibles, and magic.

GeeDeeEmm
 
1. Reel to Reels are fantastic. And a nightmare to buy. Over the last two years or so I have purchased six R2Rs (waiting for another delivery now). Out of the five that were shipped to me, four came thru shipment damaged. Only one of the five worked as described. It was one of the damaged ones. One of them, which I picked up myself (a big, beautiful Sony TC755 ten-incher.) It worked perfectly when I took it home, but within a few weeks it started malfunctioning. The Sony "service" center charged me $240 to repair it.

Ebay sellers are totally without a clue when it comes to R2Rs. Most of them will say "tested," but when you quizz the seller about the testing, they say that they turned it on and the lights worked and the reels turned - without any tape loaded. That "test" is meaningless.

Other sellers will list their decks as "serviced." This can mean anything, and mostly means nothing. I won't touch a serviced deck unless a bill of repair can be presented. Otherwise, I will pass or offer what a parts deck is worth.

I talked to a lady last week whose ad proclaimed, "Works great." When I pinned her down on it, she admitted that she had done no testing, didn't know how to test, and didn't even have a roll of tape. Why did she say it works great? Because that's what the previous owner told her.

I tell you this so that you will be forearmed when searching for a R2R. First, choose what format you want: 10" reels or 7" reels. Then features: auto-reverse; solenoid controls or the old-style levers; 2 track, four track, or four track "surround." (Some decks will play back pre-recorded surround but record only in stereo.) The easiest and most common format is four track stereo record and playback. That means that the deck will record/play only two tracks per pass using tracks 1/3 or 2/4 depending on which side of the reel is playing.

The ultimate consumer deck is a 10" unit with solenoid controls, three direct drive motors, four track stereo, and automatic reverse. Example, the TEAC A6300

View attachment 917714



Most folk would rather stick with the less-expensive 7" format, but with all the features mentioned. I like Teac decks for their ruggedness, parts availability, and easy to work on architecture. But I simply love Akai decks because they look more modern, parts availability, and, best of all, their glass-encased heads which require almost no maintenance and which last forever.

In the 7" decks, I like the Teac A4300SX View attachment 917721

And the beautiful Akai GX-266D View attachment 917719 GX-265D View attachment 917731
and GX-255. View attachment 917730

2. "Is it true that tube amps are hands down better than solid state?"
No. Absolutely untrue. I own solid state and tube gear, and the tube gear, while magical and mysterious and glorious to look at, is in no way superior in accurate sound reproduction. Why do people rave about tubes? Because tubes do one thing that we humans have a tendency to like quite a lot: tubes induce distortion. And, for reasons only known to our Creator, many of us like the way tubes produce distortion. Rather than bore you with long explanations as to why this is true, I'll refer you to a site that lays it all out scientifically: https://numeralnine.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/a-brief-guide-to-audio-for-the-skeptical-consumer/ Read #5 initially to answer your question, then go back and read the entire article. For any audiophile who desires to be scientifically truthful, this entire article will weed out the lies, foibles, and magic.

GeeDeeEmm

Good information, thanks! I realized tonight, as you have, that being a true audiophile comes with pain like your R2R's braking or, tonight, I finally got around to cleaning a stack of vinyl that I've been saving and found most of the records were really great stuff but horribly scratched! Arrrrrrr!!!! Ever hear of Bill Deal and the Rhondels or Michael Fennelly? Cool stuff. I have a stack of about ten or twenty that I just painstakingly cleaned and are worthless but five or ten that are fair and I paid twenty bucks so oh well... Reminds me of the two peach crates of the best stuff ever that my brother handed down to me that I sold for two hundred bucks because I thought vinyl was dead. I'm sure I mentioned this before so I won't bring it up again, I promise. I have about five hundred records to date in my collection but there is so much good stuff!!! :)
 
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