New turntable question

Ikura

Active Member
Hello all, I am beginning to look for a turnbadle for my receiver and had a few questions.

Is new or vintage the way to go? Can I get in at under 200.00?

I have seen much higher prices for turntables, can you hear the difference in pricing? What makes a more expensive turntable sound better( clearer? More robust?), just not sure what better sounds like.

Thank you.
 
If you are patient, able to troubleshoot, and enjoy fiddling with things, Vintage will get you a good table for $200 (or less). If you want a plug and play turntable that has a warranty, $200 will get you an okay turntable new.
 
Published SN and wow & flutter number are pretty good indicators. The less vibration and noise the better. Good quality new manual TT's now are priced at about $1000 + a cartridge and matching arm. i strongly recommend an automatic, just to protect the $500 cart, against fumble fingers. Yes you may loose some quietness with an automatic, and you can't just change out the arm to a better one.

There are many fine TT's in the NYC area every week or so, but if it is a good setup you better have the money under your mattress, and leave as soon as you contact the owner. You do have to have a complete high quality system to hear the advantages of one unit over the other. Record quality is also a factor, you can not make a bad recording sound good, in fact it will sound worse on an accurate system.

I picked up a Luxman PD 289 automatic with a $200 Denon 103 on it, for $40 in a local thrift. That would be a good place to start if you are a NewBe. The TT specs aren't that good, but it is dead quiet in my system, without noise or hum issues of any kind. The quality control on the $200 to $400 popular TT's is quite poor IMO. Go to vinylengine.com forum and read about all the noisy motors and warped platters, and the trouble you go through to get them fixed, If you buy from a good local dealer it will cost you a bit more, but he should be able to get it replaced or fixed, if you can't do it yourself.

You only have to spin a record at 33.333 RPM and not make any noise, no big deal right!
 
What makes a more expensive turntable sound better( clearer? More robust?), just not sure what better sounds like.

"Better" sounds more lifelike and there is more musical information coming through. It's worth finding a high end audio dealer and listening to a really good system to see what's possible. What you might find is that most of the sound you like is available in a lower cost system. Frank Sinatra sounds like Frank Sinatra...a trumpet sounds like a trumpet...this is good because you can get a lot of good sound for not much money.

But as the gear gets better one day you'll find yourself thinking "This is a really good performance" instead of "This is a really good recording." If the demo system is set up well you'll get a taste of this and it can be startling to hear how real a good vinyl set up can sound.

Another thing the higher end gear will provide is less noise. You might not be aware that there is noise in your setup until you hear a system that is more quiet. It's cliche, but a veil really does lift when the noise drops and more musical information comes through. The better tables have been engineered to reject non musical noise and to let only the tiny vibrations of the needle in the groove come through.

Turntables and tonearms aren't created equal, so resist the urge to grab a $99 Crosley thinking it's basically the same as a used Technics on Craigslist. They aren't the same animal at all!

Side note - these days the biggest expense in vinyl is the records. It's pretty easy to drop $ 200 on beautiful records and have only 5 or 10 titles in your hand.
 
Thanks for all the good information.

Just found a Dual 1241 on CL for 80.00. Pictures look good, though it looks to be missing the cover. Will have to contact to see if it can be heard first. Would this be a good start?

“This turntable is equipped with a Shure M91ED HI-Track cartridge.

The turntable and cartridge work perfect. The automatic function works perfect. There is a new belt installed. The motor has been cleaned and lubricated.

This unit has been completely cleaned and lubricated. “
 
Just found a Dual 1241 on CL for 80.00. Pictures look good, though it looks to be missing the cover. Will have to contact to see if it can be heard first. Would this be a good start?

“This turntable is equipped with a Shure M91ED HI-Track cartridge.

The turntable and cartridge work perfect. The automatic function works perfect. There is a new belt installed. The motor has been cleaned and lubricated.

This unit has been completely cleaned and lubricated. “

Dual and Shure cartridges are a good match and you can still buy new replacement styluses (styli?) for the M91ED. The cartridge alone sells for $ 30 to $40 so that's like getting the Dual for $ 40 to $ 50. Dual turntables were made in Germany and the engineering and quality are impressive.

Register for free at Vinyl Engine and you can download the operating and service manual for free: https://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/1241.shtml

Have the seller tell you more about the cleaning and lubricating - who did the work and how close do you think they stuck to the service recommended by Dual? In other words - if the seller did it himself with out a guide, I'd rate that lower than a seller who worked carefully from the service manual. Highest points would go to a service tech who works on Duals and turntables pretty regularly, but that kind of service at a shop would run $ 100+.

The automatic functions on Duals can get messed up if the wrong lubricants were used or if the lubrication got into the wrong places. If you can, have the seller demonstrate that all the automatic features work correctly.

Bill at FixMyDual.com may be able to offer a replacement dust cover or there occasionally will be one on Ebay. I think you could use any cover from the 124x series of turntables, but don't know that for a fact.
 
Wow! that is funny! I just spent the last 3 days listening to a very old Shure HiTrack (same as the M91ED) that has been out of service. It is the one with the thin cantilever. It is not perfect in every way, but for a unit that should be totally ossified, it blew me off my chair. It is a bit fat and sloppy on the bottom, but I am sure it is the lessor TT that I stuck it in. There are a million different replacement styluses for these, and will be the limiting factor for your sound. I also have a AT15sa, and overall this makes better music IMO. My main cartridge is also old but VERY good so I do have a pretty good reference. I can listen to all kinds of music and voice without cringing with the HiTrack.
EDIT:
I did fail to mention this old turkey is tracking at 1.5 grams beautifully

Joseph Merriam
 
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You can find a decent middle of the road Technics, usually with a good cart, in that price range. No need to break the bank if you are just getting into it. Actually, there are loads of options, not just Technics(I'm just partial to those). Just got to do your homework and search, search, search.
 
Forget about new tables with built in phono preamp and USB, one step above a kids toy and $200 down the drain. Quite a few AK members in NH and MA that might volunteer to let you hear their turntable based systems to give you an idea what they are capable of. Vintage is the best bang for the buck, most built to a much higher level of quality. Also be aware of new knockoffs of vintage tables, they are built to look like one but don't perform anywhere near the vintage model.
 
If you scroed a turnbadle and some raccooned woogers, you'd only need an amphibifier and you'd be all set!

To the OP... welcome to AK and I hope you don't mind a little teasing. We all have a bit of fun around here. To answer your question, I would say that it depends on what you want. New turntables, unless you really want to spend some serious money, aren't the performers that vintage ones were. However, a lot of vintage turntables aren't the performers that they once were, either...the difference is that they *could* be still, or that they *could* be again with a little work. Some are willing to go down one path, some are willing to go down the other. There's no wrong answer (though some might argue that point with me).

Dusty
 
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Dual and Shure cartridges are a good match and you can still buy new replacement styluses (styli?) for the M91ED. The cartridge alone sells for $ 30 to $40 so that's like getting the Dual for $ 40 to $ 50. Dual turntables were made in Germany and the engineering and quality are impressive.

Register for free at Vinyl Engine and you can download the operating and service manual for free: https://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/1241.shtml

Have the seller tell you more about the cleaning and lubricating - who did the work and how close do you think they stuck to the service recommended by Dual? In other words - if the seller did it himself with out a guide, I'd rate that lower than a seller who worked carefully from the service manual. Highest points would go to a service tech who works on Duals and turntables pretty regularly, but that kind of service at a shop would run $ 100+.

The automatic functions on Duals can get messed up if the wrong lubricants were used or if the lubrication got into the wrong places. If you can, have the seller demonstrate that all the automatic features work correctly.

Bill at FixMyDual.com may be able to offer a replacement dust cover or there occasionally will be one on Ebay. I think you could use any cover from the 124x series of turntables, but don't know that for a fact.


I got a reply back, seems good. For 80.00 May be an easy way to get started while hunting for an upgrade. The wood grain will go very nice with the 424.


I did the service to this turntable. I have been employed and enjoyed audio video professionally for the last 37 years. Currently, I focus a lot of my time collecting and repairing vintage audio. I also collect and restore antique radios and speakers.

I don't usually need to use a service manual for Dual's since I have been servicing them for years and years, but yes: I did download the service manual and followed it.
 
I got a reply back, seems good. For 80.00 May be an easy way to get started while hunting for an upgrade. The wood grain will go very nice with the 424.


I did the service to this turntable. I have been employed and enjoyed audio video professionally for the last 37 years. Currently, I focus a lot of my time collecting and repairing vintage audio. I also collect and restore antique radios and speakers.

I don't usually need to use a service manual for Dual's since I have been servicing them for years and years, but yes: I did download the service manual and followed it.

Post pics when you get it home!
 
If he is so confident in his work I would ask for a verbal warranty of a month or so. Never hurts to ask. If the stylus is in decent shape you should be good to start hearing good sound all the time, If not there is everything from a $12 conical to a $300 sas available to replace it ( w/ a $25-30 elliptical being the best bang for buck)
 
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