Newbie question. Why would anyone need a network player?

Do you really need that? I seldom find new material that is worth listening to, and when I find it I prefer to support the artist by buying the CD/whatever because is well known that the streaming services don't pay them shit.


Not true at all. Chromecast Audio supports audio up to 96kHz/24 bit:
https://www.google.com/chromecast/audio/tech-specs/

aaayyy. That's a nice thing to be wrong about.
 
Add up the annual fees for Roon and Tidal and tell me what I am missing?

Tidal Hirez is $17-20 a month - Roon player subscription is $10/mo - together that's $27-30 monthly ... I can do a lot with $350 annually ...
Interesting query and arithmetical take hjames. In my experience, on-demand streaming is bar none a 'bottom line' no-brainer...especially for any music junkie.

All tolled, it's indeed a personal choice. No flames....simply questioning your "bang for the buck" justification here. :)

PS. Why/how does Roon merit being an additional fixed expense? :idea:
 
Interesting query and arithmetical take hjames. In my experience, on-demand streaming is bar none a 'bottom line' no-brainer...especially for any music junkie.

All tolled, it's indeed a personal choice. No flames....simply questioning your "bang for the buck" justification here. :)

PS. Why/how does Roon merit being an additional fixed expense? :idea:

For me it doesn't. at $10-13 avg for a CD I can buy 20 or more albums for that $350/annual fee.
The albums are mine forever, or I can resell them if I tire of them and can't bear to play them again.
But a couple of my friends who's opinions I greatly respect DO feel it merits the extra money for Tidal and Rune ...
and I gather they are not the only ones ...
 
For me it doesn't. at $10-13 avg for a CD I can buy 20 or more albums for that $350/annual fee.
The albums are mine forever, or I can resell them if I tire of them and can't bear to play them again.
But a couple of my friends who's opinions I greatly respect DO feel it merits the extra money for Tidal and Rune ...
and I gather they are not the only ones ...
That's cool. I get your angle. It all boils down to one's own warm and fuzzy perspective.

For me, just from a quantitative consumption/exposure such as you posed, I think streaming wins hands down at the end of the day. As an insatiable music junkie, I have (and will continue to have) a shit-ton of acquired ("owned") music; but I'm also very pro streaming. The shear ease, immediacy, and quality of streaming today tip the cost to benefit scales enormously. What with the plethora of new music and back catalogs at your fingertips... with such little muss & no fuss. I'm in like Flynn.

For me and many, like your friends, the value is unprecedented and extraordinary. And if you're like most folks, at least 1/5 of your library is...meh, you'll never miss it. FWIW and key point, there is no rule you must cease buying physical media. Please continue to buy and keep...just only the real keepers.

FWIW, here's a bit of alt-point overall pro-streaming arithmetic to consider:
Per your avg. conservative cost per CD;
Let's say you've purchased 2 terrabytes worth of CDs (75,000 lossless tracks) over the last 40 years.
  • At $10/CD that rounds out to better than $1,800 spent per year. or $72,000 over 40.
  • You then opt to sell off/recoup 1/3 of your entire collection; -$600/yr. or -$23,760 over 40.
  • Your net investment/ownership is now valued at $48,240 or $1,200/year.

Relatively, lossless streaming (Tidal) currently at $240/yr. is a bloody boon! But, let's triple the avg. cost for future forward sake to $720/yr. ($60/mo.) That leaves you with nearly $500/yr. to spend on the physical media "keepers". The big bonus (aside from having the access/enjoyment of an exponentially larger library) here is that you didn't have to rip, run, NAS and fuss with selling off your tired/shitty albums.

Again, no flame. Just food for thought. :)
 
I investigated Tidal and Spotify and I wasn't all that impressed. Number one: I feel the cost is high. Tidal likes to sell the idea that they have millions of albums you can listen to. That's fine, but the genres I listen to were spotty when I investigated each one. I went with an outfit called Calm Radio. The price was right at $69.99. There are variable bit rates to choose from as well. The set up is a bit tedious but I got it working and there are no annoying commercials. For pure music alone it sure beats something like Sirius XM.
 
Lets think about it in terms of hours a week I might use a service -
I don't listen at work, I have a short commute and usually listen to NPR while driving.
got yard work, tasks and other things ... I don't particularly like earbuds.

I do relax a lot with a book, and while I play music sometimes while reading, its not critical listening time
We do TV/movies/video a lot in the evening
So I may do relax listening an hour or so a day and maybe some Sat or Sun if the weather is harsh ...

So - not enough hours of listening for me to pay for a streaming service ...

Currently, when I play music at home I have been using the iTunes Remote interface on my phone to manage the 54k tracks of songs in my library ...
One friend is a huge Pandora fiend, but I tried it a few times and didn't see the annoyance of browser streaming as worthwhile. Or the ads.
My other friends have been recommending Tidal and say Roon is a worthwhile addition for managing various streaming sources
plus home library plus HiRez resourses, but again, just not worth it to me for maybe 5-6 hours a week.

Guess I am not an insatiable Music Junkie like you say you are ...
I'm glad you enjoy it - but you can stop trying to shill your choices to the rest of us.
no flames but we don't all have to follow your choices for them to be valid for you.

I do like the good stuff, and I do buy good gear, but for me there is more to life than listening to music.

Oh, and that $10-13 avg cost for CDs is valid since I buy a lot of USED CDs via Amazon and others -
Think I paid well under $50 total for the 5CD Shelley Mann at the Blackhawk recordings I bought individually last month,
$12 for the Al Stewart Modern Times and Year of the Cat 2-on-1 disc albums last week, and I've gotten plenty at $5 or so ...
Not to seem too cheap, I do occasionally buy special editions like a japanese disc of Graceland, the King Crimson special Editions,
various HDCDs and SACDs, and a number of others.

Enjoy your weekend!



That's cool. I get your angle. It all boils down to one's own warm and fuzzy perspective.

For me, just from a quantitative consumption/exposure such as you posed, I think streaming wins hands down at the end of the day. As an insatiable music junkie, I have (and will continue to have) a shit-ton of acquired ("owned") music; but I'm also very pro streaming. The shear ease, immediacy, and quality of streaming today tip the cost to benefit scales enormously. What with the plethora of new music and back catalogs at your fingertips... with such little muss & no fuss. I'm in like Flynn.

Relatively, lossless streaming (Tidal) currently at $240/yr. is a bloody boon! But, let's triple the avg. cost for future forward sake to $720/yr. ($60/mo.) That leaves you with nearly $500/yr. to spend on the physical media "keepers". The big bonus (aside from having the access/enjoyment of an exponentially larger library) here is that you didn't have to rip, run, NAS and fuss with selling off your tired/shitty albums.

Again, no flame. Just food for thought. :)
 
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PS....@hjames still wondering about the extra $10/mo. for Roon you tacked on to your monthly figures above. :dunno:

Plainly stated it was for Roon player that my friends recommended ...
There seems to a segment that uses it - not for me tho, as I stated, so I would not pay that.
 
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Streaming is overrated. It became popular because of lazy kids/millennials, glued to their phones.

My experience - my teenage daughter. Uses Spotify for years, mostly on some cheap Bluetooth headphones. Told her that it doesn't sound good, didn't care. Oh, well...
Last week, her and a friend decided to buy physical CD albums of their favorite bands. OK, $20 later comes home with the nice shiny collectibles. On a whim asks me if she can listen to one on her PC, I say fine... And she can't believe what she hears.
I bring in one of my carousel players, a Denon DCM-460, Alpha Processing, PCM61 multibit, headphones output, modded with LM4562 OpAmps. Make the mistake to lend her my Grado headphones. Well... she was so happy of the new sounds she hears that the result is that... I can't take the headphones back now :)
Bad part is that now she is asking about turntables and LP's!
 
Guess I am not a 24/7 Music Junkie like you seem to be ...
I'm glad you enjoy it - but you can stop trying to shill your choices to the rest of us.
no flames but we don't all have to follow your choices for them to be valid for you.

I do like the good stuff, and I do buy good gear, but for me there is more to life than listening to music.
Jeez-o-pete. I simply offered up an alternative scenario/viewpoint to consider regarding the relative dollar value of lossless streaming vs. buying CDs exclusively. Such snippy, snotty comments and slothful innuendo toward me are totally unnecessary and just plain mean-spirited, hjames. ........ :wtf:
Oh, and that $10-13 avg cost for CDs is valid since
Huh? Do show me where I misrepresented or challenged your avg. CD cost? If anything I was gracious by using the low end of your range. I’m really sorry you feel that my math and motive here is somehow disingenuous or unscrupulous. Nothing could be further from the truth.
 
Plainly stated it was for Roon player that my friends recommended ...
There seems to a segment that uses it - not for me tho, as I started, so I would not pay that.
Yes, many use and justifiably rave about Roon. I think it's a tremendous compliment to streaming. But it in no way should it be perceived as a cost obligation. Ergo, your $350 annual subscription figure was unfavorably skewed. Just clearing the air to be fair.
 
Just seemed like an awful lot of commentary for yourself and others to show why I really ought to fund the Tidal folks.
You called yourself a music junkie so I assume you thought that an acceptable term - "As an insatiable music junkie"
I wasn't trying to defame or insult you - just explaining that we see this stuff differently and thats ok -
and yes, my buddy was pushing Tidal AND Roon - so yes, it DID go into my figures ... they were MY figures, after all.
It was a conversation for Him and a few others, sorry YOU took it as a shot at you ...
it didn't start out that way.
 
You called yourself a music junkie so I assume you thought that an acceptable term - "As an insatiable music junkie"
I have no issues whatsoever with being considered or called a music junkie; insatiable or otherwise. Perfectly acceptable. :thumbsup:
I wasn't trying to defame or insult you - just explaining that we see this stuff differently and thats ok -
Interesting walk-back. Here's what's not ok. Publicly propping me up as a needy shill who is below your level of 'other worldliness'. Yep, I'm a "shill", I seek "valid"ation from others, and have no other interests in life other than listening to music 24/7. That's where you went off the rails. Those silly little jabs were not only unprovoked they are condescending, rude, and above & beyond any civil proportional response. Instead of trying to "explain it away", an apology would be nice.:rolleyes: :)
my buddy was pushing Tidal AND Roon - so yes, it DID go into my figures ... they were MY figures, after all.
It was a conversation for Him and a few others, sorry YOU took it as a shot at you ...
I didn't consider your inclusion of the cost of Roon a shot at me. :) Trust me. You missed me by a mile.

I did feel however your figures deserved further clarification. Mainly for others unfamiliar with Tidal who may be weighing the actual cost-to-benefit ratio. If you consider Tidal, Roon, whether together or separately not worth the expense, I'm totally cool with that!

Earlier you asked what you were missing. Others along with myself answered honestly. No agenda --just attempting to convey a more broad and fair picture. To the unschooled consumer, suggesting that it would ultimately cost you, et.al. $30/mo. for a CD equivalent streaming experience was unnecessarily (innocently?) inflated and slanted.
-----------------------------------------
I now see that you've recently edited (added a pro Roon disclaimer) your #11 post. A somewhat cordial step in the right direction and a better late than never I guess. Too much ado about nothing? Possibly, probably. In any event, you're welcome.
 
I don't use Roon - 2 friends of mine do.
I am planning to use Rune, a freeware streaming player.
Basically, it runs on the Raspberry Pi 3B "computer" and serves the music for me - I control it remotely via a webpage interface I can see on my phone or iPad.
Among other things, it lets me play FLAC files, which the Apple universe does not.
You can play FLAC on Macs and iPads using numerous third party software solutions rather than iTunes if FLAC is a big deal to you. You don't need a seperate "computer" for it. I am sure you know this, but I want to clarify this point because less knowledgeable people may misunderstand what you are saying.
 
My library is all CDs. Many are used. I think $10-15 is high. Maybe $7. There is more to it. For example I enjoy the research and collection (hunting gathering?). Nothing against streaming etc. just not interested.
 
I'm setting up a Raspberry Pi based computer running Rune software (freeware) http://www.runeaudio.com/
The Pi was $65 complete - and I'm adding a high resolution audio board to it for another $55 -
so, call it $120 for the server hardware. I have an external drive case (with USB out) already tho I'll probably buy a 2TB drive to copy my music library to ...

Local players don't incur a monthly license fee for the player, nor a monthly fee for a music service.
Add up the annual fees for Roon and Tidal and tell me what I am missing?

PS - I have gone the Mac route with Airport Extreme on my main computer, and 3 Airport express units spread around the house -
I'm well versed with that tech and have updated it though a couple generations from the Saucer to the mac-mini format to the mini Towers the Extreme now uses ...
I've been doing local streaming for maybe 8 years and probably a lot longer ...
I'll stay out of the 'argument' thing going on here(I have my own thoughts on this topic), but have you checked out the FileBrowser app for your i-devices?
I use it to play FLAC files off of a hard drive plugged into my router, and it just might be the best $7 I've ever spent on audio. That one purchase has it running on a couple of iphones, an ipad mini, and a beat-to-shit old ipod touch in my garage.
It's way clunky compared to the more elegant music player options, but I can't see being without it. Even if I ever go with a better digital music player option I think I'll still find it useful to keep around.
 
I'll stay out of the 'argument' thing going on here(I have my own thoughts on this topic), but have you checked out the FileBrowser app for your i-devices?
I use it to play FLAC files off of a hard drive plugged into my router, and it just might be the best $7 I've ever spent on audio. That one purchase has it running on a couple of iphones, an ipad mini, and a beat-to-shit old ipod touch in my garage.
It's way clunky compared to the more elegant music player options, but I can't see being without it. Even if I ever go with a better digital music player option I think I'll still find it useful to keep around.
Yep! One of the many iOS solutions for playing FLAC out there.
 
Let's say you've purchased 2 terrabytes worth of CDs (75,000 lossless tracks) over the last 40 years.

At an average of 4 minutes a song and listening 8 hours a day you could go 625 days without repeating a single song. Do people really have 'collections' that big? Aren't there entire albums you'd never get back to at that point.

I can't even begin to imagine that there are 75,000 songs that I would enjoy let alone ever remember to select.
 
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