No Offence But, was Pioneer ever Good?

[jcoconnell]

JCO also questioned why us Pioneer folks even had our own forum. Pretty damned arrogant, especially for a newbie. He is certainly entitled to his opinion.

I am thankful that, with his attitude and closed mind, he doesn't run AK. Otherwise, only those with his gear would be allowed to participate.

I am new to this forum, but not new to audio. I have been a hi-fi fan for over
30 years and have followed the hobby via magazines and internet continuously all that time so it is not arrogance, its experience.

The reason I seriously questioned pioneer other than my experiences with their products vs other brands is that when I look at the forum menus I dont see all the major brands, I see "pioneer" and I see "macintosh". If all the major vintage brands were there it would be one thing but to me to have pioneer alongside macintosh is like ferrari alongside ford. That provoked me to post as much as anything else, its quite a disparity there.....

And for your information, I dont think my equipment is anything special because I know there are lots and lots of good equipment made over the years and today that are totally different brands then what I am currently using. I am not one of those "my way or the highway" type closed minded
idiots you picture me as being ... Let me turn it around, someone could easily say that if all you ever buy is pioneer ( or any other one brand for that matter) then that would be being close minded, no?

 

[EchoWars]

I can see I obviously ruffled some feathers but I never have heard of pioneer enthusiasts and I am into audio pretty heavy so thats why I asked. I will rephrase my question, what attacts you to vintage pioneer as opposed to other brands?

I personally am not necessarily attracted to Pioneer per se, although I have a couple of old receivers. I like the old Kenwood stuff myself. Troublefree gear. There happens to be a Pioneer forum because there's a pissload of Pioneer fans at this site (started as more or less a general vintage stereo fan site).

Secondly, I have over 25 years as an electronics engineering technician

That would make you a nOObie around here

and I fully understand engineering and manufacturing techniques then and now. I totally disagree with your statement that the pioneer electronics of the late 70's are better than the Hafler of the 80's and 90's. The pioneers I had used a lot of inexpensive electrolytic coupling caps and the circuit boards were low end affiars resembling $10 transistor radios. Dont jump all over me for saying the "guts" werent good because that is what you are buying when you buy electronics, you are not buying front panels and wood sides, what matters most is whats inside.

Well, I guess then you're going to have to define the gear and the timeline much better than you have thus far. Like I posted above, I don't care about much of anything built after about '79. This is when the Japanese Yen grew very strong vs. the American dollar, and the Japs had to cut the hell out of their quality in order to still sell at anything approaching a reasonable price in the US. The point at which this happened was pretty sudden, and every Asian manufacturer has a line of gear that is noticeably the beginning of a serious downfall.

And another thing, I did NOT rule out that there could be good pioneer stuff, I specifically asked if there was any stuff earlier or later better than the '78-'83 stuff so I did not assume its all of the qualitiy of '78-'83. But since no one answered that question does that mean the '78-'83 stuff was typical or as good as it ever was or got?

I answered your question about as directly as anyone could wish...most of the early 80's stuff (with the exception of some purpose-built high-end stuff) was pretty, ummm, disposable. Yeah, that's it...disposable. (Political Correctness invades the Vintage Pioneer forum, lawd, lawd...) But the stuff made by nearly all the manufacturers from about '73 to '77 or '78 is solid gear, and I'll stand by my statement that I'd put its build quality against about anything you care to trot out.

I see "pioneer" and I see "macintosh". If all the major vintage brands were there it would be one thing but to me to have pioneer alongside macintosh is like ferrari alongside ford. That provoked me to post as much as anything else, its quite a disparity there.....

In your opinion. I work on them all...the Macintosh gear does nothing for me, and I can point out (with boring detail) how a lot of Mac gear is stupidly overhyped, and blown into the weeds sonically and build-wise by many overseas units (but Mac does a lot of things right that the Japs never could seem to get straight, so....) But I'd rather you open up and fix a few of 'em yourself. There isn't anywhere near as much difference as the purchase price would lead you to believe...you are indeed paying a lot for that name on the front panel and the wood case and trim, rather than the 'guts' that, as you pointed out earlier, were the heart of the matter.

I fight the addition of separate forums...makes it too hard to read everything that's going on, but there are a lot of Mac lovers and a lot of Sansui and Pioneer lovers here, so we gots forums for 'em (get it? )

But I still urge you to exit this thread with one thought...vintage gear sucks, especially Pioneer, can't touch anything made today, and you're not interested in owning any. :thmbsp:

 

[mg196]

Wow...this thread has exploded! Newbies, newbies...what can ya say?!

A fantastic way to introduce yourself to a new community is to jump right in and make ridiculous statements:

If all the major vintage brands were there it would be one thing but to me to have pioneer alongside macintosh is like ferrari alongside ford.

Huh?! Unless I am mistaken, there are plenty of Ford enthusiasts just as there are Ferrari enthusiasts. Who the hell cares who we dedicate forums to here. If the demand is there then the forum is supplied.

Ya know...has anyone seen KLHman around?!?!?! :lmao:

 

[tentoze]

Wow...this thread has exploded!

Not nearly fast enough for me..............

:smshot:

 

[EchoWars]

Wondered when you wuz gonna show up... :scratch2:

 

[jcoconnell]

Wow...this thread has exploded! Newbies, newbies...what can ya say?!

A fantastic way to introduce yourself to a new community is to jump right in and make ridiculous statements:

If all the major vintage brands were there it would be one thing but to me to have pioneer alongside macintosh is like ferrari alongside ford.

Huh?! Unless I am mistaken, there are plenty of Ford enthusiasts just as there are Ferrari enthusiasts. Who the hell cares who we dedicate forums to here. If the demand is there then the forum is supplied.

Ya know...has anyone seen KLHman around?!?!?! :lmao:

Yes but the ford enthusiast dont say they outperform or match the ferraris. Cars were a bad example, my fault for even mentioning them. You can love a mustang for styling even though some ugly sports car will smoke it in a race. Stereos arent like that, I dont think anybody buys stereos for looks, Its all about the music and the best Macintoshes are going to maker sweeter sounds than the best pioneers, and well they should, they didnt have the price limitations the pioneers had to meet.

 

[tentoze]

Wondered when you wuz gonna show up... :scratch2:

I don't usually read the Pioneer Forum- all they ever made was chit........

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

[Parky50]

No comment... :saywhat:

 

[Dave918]

This one's gonna require a double bucket



-dave

 

[JoZmo]

That's it, keep your sense of tumor, uh... I mean, humor boys! :lmao:

 

[tentoze]

:lmao:

This one's gonna require a double bucket



-dave

Pass some over here- I'm gonna get on the sidelines before I get lynched.

 

[RocknRoll]

In my opinion by the 80s the manufacturers should have went with Pink instead of Black plastic.

 

[Pioneer727]

Your lucky Iam down with the FLU,

 

[Dave918]

:lmao:

Pass some over here- I'm gonna get on the sidelines before I get lynched.

Oh how I love a good lynching. Really brightens up the day, ya know? :thmbsp:

-dave

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

I am not one of those "my way or the highway" type closed minded
idiots you picture me as being ... Let me turn it around, someone could easily say that if all you ever buy is pioneer ( or any other one brand for that matter) then that would be being close minded, no?

There you go again, making assumptions. But, just to answer your question, here is my list of audio (and some video) components (components listed two or more times is not a mistake):

My personal system (all Pioneer, which no one touches but me, mostly from 1974 to 1979):
*RT-909 R2R
*DT-500 Timer
*SA-9800 Integrated Amp
*RG-2 Dynamic Processor
*SG-9800 Equalizer
*SD-1100 Stereo Display
*PL-600 Turntable w/Shure V15type5
*DT-500 Timer
*TX-9800 Tuner
*P-D70 CD Player
*CT-F1250 Cassette
*U-24 Program Selector
*HPM-700 Speaker Pair
*HPM-700 Speaker Pair
*CS-X5 Speaker Pair
*SM-Q300 AM/FM/SW Receiver (Tubes, 1961)
*DS-40F Stereo Switch
*SE-700 Headphones
*SE-700 Headphones
*DT-500 Timer (Spare, yes, they sometimes break)

My other Pioneer system (which I am donating to a good cause):
*SA-6700 Integrated Amp
*TX-6700 Tuner
*CT-F850 Cassette
*PD-6050 CD Player
*Project 120 Speaker pair
*RT-1020L R2R
*SE-205 Headphones

Other equipment in the house for whole house audio and video (cannot remember some of the model numbers):
*OpenHouse Channel Plus H564
*Hitachi VHS
*RCA Sat Receiver
*RCA Sat Receiver
*Marantz DVD player
*Marantz 5 Disc CD Player
*Kustom Four Source KHS4640
*Marantz Tuner
*Marantz Tuner
*Marantz Tuner
*Niles speakers in selected rooms

Other equipment (home theatre):
*Marantz DVD
*Toshiba Sat Receiver DST-300
*Toshiba VHS
*Marantz AV Surround Receiver SR4000
*Niles Speakers
*Toshiba Theater View Television

Other equipment (lying around):
*RCA 25" TV
*Toshiba 25" TV
*Toshiba 25" TV
*Toshiba 25" TV
*Magnavox 25" TV
*Emerson 19" TV
*Sony Sat Receiver
*Pioneer DT-510 timer

Plus, my Sony ICF-2010 Air/FM/LW/MW/SW radio with a Gilfer Shortwave cover, and in my car a 1953 Wonderbar tube AM only radio.

Ok, I think I have made my point. I purchase whatever I want, and I joined AK because there are a lot of great folks with a lot of experience and skills that I can learn from, and share thoughts and info with, many with very deep, specific knowledge.

I find it hard to imagine that with your 25 or 30 years doing whatever it is you do, that you have not encountered Pioneer more than you claim. Moreover, I see it as a deliberate, arrogant attack from a self-proclaimed audiophile with a limited view.

This is my last reply to this thread... But with your attitude, you will reply just to have the last word.

Doc

 

[fropiler]

In my experience,

I think you guys are taking this guys post way overboard. Did you read the first two words of the title of his post... "No offense".

I think he's just stating his opinion and why should he tip toe around his opinion. I don't get the impression that he's trying to attack anybody here or trying to say his gear is better.

Re-read his post. He asks: " Was the earlier (or later?) stuff any better? Are there any "classic models" in the '78-'83 era?"

Ya, maybe he could have been a bit more diplomatic but he's just stating his opinion on his experiences.

Everybody is so defensive about their gear sometimes... if you like it that's ALL that counts.


That's all folks!

Anytime someone starts their sentence with "No Offense, but..." or "I don't mean to be a dick, but..."

The very next thing to follow is usually offensive or dick-like.

IMO, Anyone who calls into question the build quality of an sx-1250, for example, couldn't possibly have seen one.

 

[wjahn5]

I'm going to have to agree with JCOCONNELL on this - Pioneer was pretty much mostly crap.

In order to help will this, anyone who agrees can send me their Pioneer gear & $20 as a modest disposal fee and I'll make sure they never have to mess with it again!

 

[Dave918]

I'm going to have to agree with JCOCONNELL on this - Pioneer was pretty much mostly crap.

In order to help will this, anyone who agrees can send me their Pioneer gear & $20 as a modest disposal fee and I'll make sure they never have to mess with it again!

Damn, why didn't I think of that :grumpy:

-dave

 

[grumpy]

Guys

Thats enough from both sides on this subject. Everyone take a few minutes, count to ten, Get laid or whatever.....