Norman Lab Model Elevens in the House !!!

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by orionkc, Sep 16, 2009.

  1. orionkc

    orionkc Smooth

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    Local Craigslist Find. Original owner purchased these new. Hard to find this kind of Quality today. He built some speaker stands to go with them and are very nice. They sound Sweeeeeeeet.
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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2009

     

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  2. rpampt

    rpampt Analogeous Vinylitis Subscriber

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    Very nice looking cabs! With stands to boot. Indeed sweeeeeet!
     
  3. Rome

    Rome Holsum Honey Buns Subscriber

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    Very nice & rare find!

    Rome
     
  4. pauldrewry

    pauldrewry Super Member

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    beautiful! :drool:
     
  5. stereocuuple

    stereocuuple Two Channel Only Subscriber

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    way to go rick nice:thmbsp:
     
  6. Wornears

    Wornears Age & Treachery

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    Do they sound as good as they look? I know about the Norman Labs rep, but the only ones I've seen around here are beat to hell 2-ways.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2009

     

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  7. soundbound

    soundbound Active Member

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    Beautiful!
     
  8. sealy

    sealy Addicted Member

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    A pair of decent Philips tweeters. Can't speak to the mid/woofer. I guess they mounted the tweeters out from the cabinet to reduce diffraction and improve imaging, but one would think the phase alignment would be out of synch as a consequence.

    That being said, sound is all that matters. The cabinets are beeootifull! Looks like felt around the tweeters. Obvious care and detail went into the construction.
     
  9. basicblues

    basicblues Well-Known Member

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    Nice find... I've got a set of these too, the Norman Lab model 11 basically took the place of the older Model 7. Top notch cabinets on this series, looks like the woofers have been replaced, these would have had the white poly cones drivers, here's a blurry picture of mine. Still have your model 335's? I'd be interested in knowing what you think about them in comparison.


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    There's no felt around the tweeters...

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    The rare Norman Lab model 7, one of only a couple of Norman Lab speakers manufactured with a 12" driver.

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  10. ke4mcl

    ke4mcl Super Member

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    i have the EQ they sold for the speakers. finally get to see the speakers!
     
  11. orionkc

    orionkc Smooth

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    Couple of questions for ya.....What is the impedance for the 11's? The original owner I bought these from says he never changed the woofers and said he bought them new. The woofers are 8ohms and are a Pioneer Woofer. I am a little reluctant to believe that the speakers are 8 ohm. Weren't most of the Normans 4ohm? The 335's are 4ohm and the woofers were replaced with some CTS woofers that don't sound bad but are not original. I think Norman outsourced most of their drivers and since there is little information on the net I thought I would ask you since you seem to know a lot about Norman Labs. Do you know the EIA code on the 10" Polycones that were used in a lot of the Normans? I would like to get both sets back to original if at all possible or a more suitable replacement for the woofers. As far as a comparison at present the 11's sound better to me but without having original woofers in both sets it would be hard to make a subjective comparison. Decent 4ohm 10" drop ins may be hard to find. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If you have any 10" Polycones layin around or know where I can find some shoot me a PM.

    Thanks,

    Rick
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009

     

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  12. orionkc

    orionkc Smooth

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    basicblues......Also wanted you to see thes Phillips 477's I recently picked up as the build quality and drivers reminded me so much of Norman Labs I was curious if the Norman Lab guys may have taken a page from Phillips or vice-versa when these were designed...These speakers are Keepers. I have already refoamed the 12" Heppner Woofers and am just blown away by these large 3 ways. The original owner was 80 years old and purchased them new. I am fairly confident the Heppner's are original. They sound Fantastic...........

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  13. orionkc

    orionkc Smooth

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    Just did a Multimeter at the speaker outputs for the 335's (3.3ohm) and the Elevens (25.2 ohm) WTF??????????????:scratch2: I think I need to find some original 4ohm woofers or suitable replacements.
     
  14. basicblues

    basicblues Well-Known Member

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    I don't have any specifications on the Norman Lab model 11 speakers. Most of the older literature I have states the crossover is at 1500Hz.

    Norman Lab did indeed out source their driver components so if those are Pioneer drivers they are definitely not original. Norman Lab primarily used Credence drivers which has a EIA code of 117. The early Norman Lab examples will have CTS (EIA 137) speakers but everything else I've seen since about 1975 has had Credence drivers. The Credence driver also evolved over time starting with a paper cone with butyl rubber surrounds until around 1980, then the white poly cone with foam surrounds, then finally a black poly cone with foam surrounds until they went out of business.

    Many of the NL credence drivers I've seen are 4ohms and some are actually stamped 4ohms on the frames but I think it just depends, so it's best to double check to be sure. In other words, just because you have a 4 ohm driver doesn't mean that you'll get a 4ohm reading at the speaker terminals. For example: I got these speaker terminal readings from these NL models: Model 11 = 6.4 ohms, Model 10 = 3.9 ohms, Model 8 = 7.3 ohms & all my model 200 (truck speakers) are in the 7.0 ohms range. So most of the single woofer models are in the 8 ohm (6.5) reading range. The multi 2 & 3 woofer models generally read in lower ohms so it just depends.

    Currently, I don't have any Norman Lab credence drivers. I recently sold my entire stock to another collector. Credence drivers become available every so often on eBay so if watched faithfully you'll find a pair listed eventually and that's what I'd probably do. Just enjoy the speakers like they are for the time being and watch for an original speaker pair instead of searching for a replacement for the replacement.
     
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  15. basicblues

    basicblues Well-Known Member

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    If you getting a 25.2 ohm reading, it sounds like your meter might be charging the caps or something else may not be wired correctly?
     
  16. WhiteSE

    WhiteSE Is Lute Gluten Free?? Subscriber

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    wow, impressive looking speakers....!
     

     

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  17. basicblues

    basicblues Well-Known Member

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    Well, Norman Lab used Phillips tweeters, so these Phillips speaker model 477 appear to use the same tweeter style and also have beautifully finished cabinets. I'm sure the crossover designs would have been a little different with the use of those L-pads but these are very pretty speakers and if they sound as good as they look then I can see why they're keepers...
     
  18. tensleep

    tensleep AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Thanks for all of the fantastic information. The Credence drivers sure look like the Watkins drivers used in Infinities. The Watkins are dual voice coil, though, low impedance.

    I still owe you a brochure, basicblues - haven't forgotten.
     
  19. basicblues

    basicblues Well-Known Member

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    Here's an old Norman Lab "family photo" from a few years ago. The family has grown since this picture and a few duplicate models have went to new homes. It's hard to get every speaker model moved to one location for a group picture.

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  20. LanceBaker

    LanceBaker New Member

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    You are applying a D.C. voltage with a multimeter. That measures resistance. Impedence is not the same thing, and is related to A.C., but not the wall outlet type. An audio amp sends a complex mix of alternating current to the speaker. Typically woofer impedence is measured at 400 Hz (approximately the G above middle C on a piano). Even so, the D.C. resistance you measure should be about the same for two speakers of the same brand and model. Most designers of sealed cabinets use 4 ohm woofers, because the amp will have more power at lower impedence, thus the speakers will be louder. If the cabinet is bass-relex or passive radiator, anything from 4 to 8 ohm might be used.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
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