Norman Lab Model Elevens in the House !!!

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by orionkc, Sep 16, 2009.

  1. echron

    echron Active Member

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    Motown arkansas
    Nice. Love to see Norman's clean and in use (hopefully). Lol
     

     

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  2. wesgillett

    wesgillett New Member

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    Seeing that this is the most active Norman Labs forum I've encountered, I'm needing some help...I replaced a woofer in a pair of Model 11's that I'm restoring. The woofer as it turns out has an undersized magnet so I'm back to the drawing board on repair options.

    BUT I'm having issues with the tweeters cutting out on one speaker, I believe it has to do with the protection switch making a poor connection, at least that's my hunch, but after looking at the crossovers they look simple enough, I'm curious if it would be worth the time and effort to just rebuild them? Unfortunately, they're stapled to the inside of the cabinet so I may have to relocate them all together.

    Any advice would be appreciated!
     

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  3. Blue Shadow

    Blue Shadow Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century Subscriber

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    Although you could have made your very own thread about your speakers, tacking it onto orionkc's thread probably won't bother him as he hasn't been here in 4½ years.

    You can rebuild the crossovers in situ, I replaced the caps in a pair of 10B, working in the cabinet to do so. I did not bypass the circuit breakers but might if the need arises. You should probably do that since you are having trouble with them.

    Throwing a handful of caps into the cabinet and bypassing the cricuit breakers seems a lot easier than rebuilding the crossover and mounting it in the box somewhere else.
     
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  4. wesgillett

    wesgillett New Member

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    I'm reliable with a soldering iron, but my knowledge on capacitance and adequate substitutes falls short, whats a quick parts list in order to get these working again? Assuming I can bypass those circuit breakers by soldering a cap between the leads, what would I need?
     
  5. Blue Shadow

    Blue Shadow Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century Subscriber

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    Without having your speaker sitting right here so I can look at it, I'm going off the picture you will need to verify.

    Get you a few 7.5µF 100V (and any others we can't see) film caps from Parts Express or your preferred supplier and solder them in exactly where the originals are soldered. Here is where You make a diagram of exactly where they are soldered and follow that. Caps are held in place with hot melt glue. Pry em loose and learn the wiring to copy exactly. Make a diagram if you need to.

    Seems one cap is on the lamp base the other end to the second cap and the coil. Verify this.
    Seems the other cap is at the junction of the coil and first cap from above and to the circuit breaker. The breakers appear to be wired to the speaker connection and the other end is wired to the crossover parts. To bypass, move the wire on the end top end (as pictured) to the lower end of that same circuit breaker, do it for both. Then be careful with power so you don't blow up your speakers.

    Contact Speaker Dave, the Doctor of Coneology, in Tulsa for information on a replacement woofer for your speakers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 11:39 AM
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  6. avguytx

    avguytx AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Those Littlefuse circuit breakers are about the worst thing in that network and bypassing them will make them sound better and not cut off with minimal volume going to them. I had found some exact replacements some years back and posted links in another thread but those links are dead now; not sure there are exacts now but fuses or other similar breakers could be used. My 9b's had breakers on both the woofers and tweeters and would both shut off intermittently when playing even at low volume. So, they are still there but bypassed (but I sold them not long ago)

    Definitely replace those old and tired black & red capacitors. They will both have the values you need on them and finding replacements will be easy. We can all help you out with that when you get to that point. Bypassing the breakers is easy....it's just unsoldering one wire on each and moving it over to the other thus completing the circuit.

    Original thread about the breakers.

    And I don't want to post an e b a y link here but here's the breakers on auction if one is so inclined. If yours are the same value, anyway. You'd have to look on the sides of them to get their numbers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 11:24 AM

     

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  7. wesgillett

    wesgillett New Member

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    I think I'll try and bypass the circuit breakers first and see how that suits me. From what I gather, I need to unsolder that wire from the coil that runs to the top of the left breaker and move it down to the other point on the same breaker (Where the speaker input is wired). Then take the lead from the cap that's attached to the right breaker and move it down as well (again to where the speaker input is wired). Forgive me for making this so juvenile I'm as green as they come! Am I understanding that correctly?

    I'll definitely peruse parts express and get some fresh caps in once I jump over a few of these preliminary hurdles.

    Dave told me he would do the work on the speakers to the tune of $55 a piece one original woofer needs a voice coil. (He only has poly and foam woofers left over so that would mean both speakers would need work I can't have one paper and rubber woofer and one poly and foam woofer that would be a tragedy.) I would have some money in them, really quite close to what they're worth once Dave finishes with them.
     
  8. Blue Shadow

    Blue Shadow Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century Subscriber

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    This is the crossover from the Norman 10B. It had caps stacked so more than the two it appears to have. Verify what you have and get the same.

    Norman Crossover 2.jpg
     
  9. Blue Shadow

    Blue Shadow Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century Subscriber

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    And this is an issue, why? Having the resale value tied up in a device you are using and enjoying and has just been made to like new seems to be a major problem on AK where Vintage and CHEAP really does rule the roost but if it's your hobby, it seems we could spend a bit to make things nice. Look at all the money folks dump into their collector cars, many only getting 50¢ on the dollar when they sell it. They count that money spent as fun and enjoyment of the hobby of the work or use of the vehicle when done. It all just depends on how you can enjoy the hobby.
     
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  10. echron

    echron Active Member

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    323
    Location:
    Motown arkansas
    I may have an extra paper / rubber woofer. Let me see what I have. If so I'd gladly donate it to complete your norms.
     
  11. wesgillett

    wesgillett New Member

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    If you do happen upon one I'll send you this model 10 woofer I ended up with and we can call it even, Its in good shape and it works, the magnet just isn't the same size as the model 11 woofer and it leaves much to be desired as far as bass goes in the 11's. That would be a huge help!
     

     

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  12. wesgillett

    wesgillett New Member

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    I need you to say all of that louder so my wife can hear you...:)
     
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  13. echron

    echron Active Member

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    Location:
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    So the model 10 and the 11 have different woofers? Are we sure that your 11's are wearing the right woofers? I have never seen 11's in person so I was unaware they were different. Or is it the fact of the plastic woofer vs the paper woofer?
     
  14. wesgillett

    wesgillett New Member

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    29

    According to Dave, we spoke before I purchased the Model 10 woofer on eBay last week...The model 10 had the same size and 8ohm impedance woofer as the model 11. When I got the woofer in the mail almost everything between these two woofers is the same, save for the size of the magnet. There's even a hole in the back of the magnet that's been milled into the metal that's the same size. Its still a paper and rubber woofer. From what I found on AK the woofers are the original Creedence woofers per the serial number printed on them. He did say on the phone that they would use whatever the manufacturer had on hand at the time.
     
  15. echron

    echron Active Member

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    323
    Location:
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    Ok I will send pic of speaker tonight when I get home from work and we will try to compare the two and see if what I have is the same or what you need. Sound good?
     
  16. wesgillett

    wesgillett New Member

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    Sounds great!
     
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  17. wesgillett

    wesgillett New Member

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    Here are some photos of the two woofers I have with the serial numbers.

    The woofer with the smaller magnet ends in: 1379 (this woofer was advertised as a model 10 woofer. It’s paper and rubber)

    The woofer believed to be original ends in: 0980 this woofer is also paper and rubber.

    The only side angle image I have is of the larger magnet.

    I did manage to clip the wires and solder them to the bottom posts to bypass the circuit breakers and the normans are playing great now! There’s plenty of bass to go around here!
     

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  18. echron

    echron Active Member

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    323
    Location:
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    IMG_2048.JPG IMG_2047.JPG
    I'm glad to hear they are sounding better!! I have an original 10a and one of the originals out of my 335's. Two total different woofers than you have.
     

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