Nva?

marqueemoon

Gimme indie rock!
Any owners/ folks with personal experience here?

Looking at the 30W monoblocks for a possible future purchase.

That would involve sticking with a passive preamp which I'm totally ok with. The "use our cables or void your warranty" thing is a little annoying, but not a dealbreaker.

Seems like conceptually it's very Naim-like, but I've never been a big fan of Naim sonically. I appreciate the accuracy, but it's a little lifeless for my liking.

These would be used mainly with Yorkville YSM-1 monitors that are 90dB and ever-so-slightly on the bright side of flat. They sound pretty nice with lower end Rega and NAD amps. Looking for a little more refined sound.
 
I haven't had personal experience with NVA, but am somewhat familiar with them and their products. Have you tried to post your questions on Pink Fish forum? I believe some of the Pink Fishers over there have a bit of experience with them.

Their products seem to be good value providing you like the sound obviously. I cannot recall if he offers a money-back guarantee off of Ebay purchases or not, been awhile.

I have to say that I haven't heard of Naim being characterized as "lifeless" very often! Usually the complaint is too characterfull!

Hopefully someone else will chime in with actual listening experience here.
 
Yeah. I guess that's not the usual knock on Naim. The stuff I've heard has all been newer. I haven't had a chance to do extended listening, but at a few shops and a friend's system. I'm not sure how else to put it. Everything was there and it didn't sound "bad" in the least. For me there's something that happens where a recording becomes more than the sum of its parts, and so far I haven't gotten that with the Naim gear I've heard.

Thanks for the forum tip. I will do some more research.
 
Naim certainly isn't for everyone and I do understand why it isn't to some people's taste.

Richard Dunn of NVA is a unique guy and the gear is somewhat minimalist and unique in design as well. But usually from what I have read and discussed with others, it seems to be good sounding gear, just have to be a bit careful with partnering equipment, cables etc.

Another forum, The Art of Sound also has some good folks who have/ have heard NVA, but be careful on that forum, as most posts on NVA/Richard have been locked down due to several reasons I won't go into, but you can do a search and glean a bit of info there too.

If you get some of the NVA, certainly post here, would love to see how you get on with it. I certainly wouldn't mind trying it someday!
 
Another forum, The Art of Sound also has some good folks who have/ have heard NVA, but be careful on that forum, as most posts on NVA/Richard have been locked down due to several reasons I won't go into, but you can do a search and glean a bit of info there too.

!

As an NVA user and a moderator on Art Of Sound forum I'd just like to clarify this. Discussion of NVA products is absolutely fine on Art of Sound, discussion of Richard Dunn (the owner and designer) is not permitted.

In so much as amplifiers sound different I can say that NVA amps sound nothing like Naim amps.

There is a 30 day no quibble money back guarantee. Also if you upgrade within the range within 2 years you get the full price as trade in against the upgrade price.

Hope that is helpful.
 
Sorry about that Mart, and yes I realized this too, but did not obviously state what I should have. Thanks for the clarification, just didn't want to have anything started over there!
 
Just to say I have taken delivery of an NVA A30 MKII power amp. I'm awaiting some NVA speaker cable and when this arrives I will have a full NVA amplification and interconnects/ speaker cables set up. That's everything NVA except the sources, phono stage and speakers. I'll give it a few days to bed in and then report back if anyone is interested.
 
I certainly am interested in hearing your take on it! Pics are also a welcome thing too!
Tim
 
Okay will report back, hopefully by next weekend.

Here's pic to be going on with (components as per my signature)

 
Okay here are some thoughts so far about the new kit.

This is now all NVA so P90SA passive pre amp, A30 MkII power amp, SSC interconnects twixt everything and LS1 speaker cables. CD player is a Parasound 1000 (from 1994) and speakers are the Akai SW 175 (from 1973)

The pre-amp is top of the range, the amp is the cheapest they do (£340).

Whilst you can use the pre amps or the cables with anything, potentially, NVA are quite keen that their power amps be properly evaluated only in the context of a full NVA set up like this. You have to use NVA speaker cable with NVA amps.

The speaker cable thing was a bit of a glitch since I ordered the recommended LS5 but with this installed the sound was a little thick and syrupy, lacking impact and with no fine detail. After a consultation it was suggested that the LS5 cable was not suitable for my vintage speakers and a much thinner cable - the LS1 - was supplied. This made an enormous difference to the sound, the 'rightness' was notable from the first couple of bars of music, even before I was back in my seat. We were now cooking with gas and serious listening could commence.

I've ran through a fair few recordings so far but nothing like enough to be really confident with what I am about to say but anyway this is it so far:

I've recently heard quite a few very good systems that would really be classed as high end in terms of price and ability ( although some were DIY set ups so not as expensive as they could be). It's one thing to hear a really good system once and then not again for many years but when you have a whole slew of them in a few months you start to re-evaluate how good things can potentially get.

I like passive pre-amps because I don't see the logical need for another gain stage in front of the power amp, it is just a load of additional circuitry that can only detract. Not that I have not heard some very good active pre amps but they were also very expensive. Passive gets you to that really open, delicate reproduction without having to spend thousands. So I like my P90 SA a lot and when I had my XTZ amp develop a problem it seemed like a good excuse to try the NVA power amp designed to match.

So- to sound quality:

Some recordings I played I have to say I was doing that involuntary grin thing I see others write about but never get myself. Flagship stuff like Steely Dan's Aja sounded magnificent. There is a huge load of presence in the mid band that puts a lot of weight behind the sound in that region, it is really tight and forceful. At the same time vocals and featured instruments do not come out too forward to the point where they mask the rest of the mix, but they were just a little further forward than I like/am used to when using the XTZ amp.

The XTZ was very clinical though, this is a slightly warmer, slightly richer presentation, although with the same levels of clarity in terms of reverb and decay, and in terms of being able to 'hear into' the recording. But it does not strip the recording bare like the XTZ did. I quite liked that aspect of the XTZ but it was more a studio sound than a home audio one.

I played a few rougher recordings to see if the system could make sense of them. Sam And Dave on Atlantic re-issue CD came across well even though these are ropey recordings even by the standard of the day. There was a slight rough edge to the sound, though. Not enough to ruin enjoyment but not quite as tidy as I have heard it. I tried a couple of recordings that are very clean - Don Felder's 'Heavy |Metal (Takin'a Ride)' from the Heavy Metal soundtrack album is a good one for this.

This did sound awesomely grin inducing etc - but there was a slight edge to the sound. Just the tiniest thing but this should sound clean as a bell and there was a little bit of a rough edge that I know is not there on the recording. I'm splitting hairs since the sound was clean and certainly not rough or distorted, more I would say it was the slightest bit of colouration from the power amp.

More when I have had a longer time with it.
 
I was sent some LS1 cable as that should be a better match for the speakers. Obviously they are 40 odd years old and in 1973 no-one was using hi-fi speaker cable it was just bell wire. So you have to consider back in the day that speakers would be voiced with that in mind.

Anyway the LS1 was an improvement, getting rid of the slightly thick, syrupy trait the system had with the LS5. But there was still a bit of midrange 'bloom' and a little bit of occlusion in the mids, a sleight veil that was keeping the sound a bit surpressed in that area.

I turned down the mid range level control one notch and this cured the bloom but the veiling was still there.

Was sent another cable that is supposedly custom designed to suit the Akais and might remove the veil, I was advised that this was brand new cable and would need to burn in.

Speaker cable burn in I am pretty sceptical about, I think I may have heard it before. That is the best I can do. So I ignored this advice and when the cable arrived yesterday got down straight away to some serious critical listening.

This was a much smaller difference than between the LS5 and LS1. Nevertheless the mid and top seemed a bit more open, maybe at the expense of a little mid-bass. Listening to Steely Dan 'Two Against Nature' and SRV's 'Couldn't Stand The Weather' I though there were some slight rough edges even on pretty smooth and accomplished modern recordings. The live radio studio recordings at the end of SRV sounded okay though.

But I wasn't that happy. Whilst this was not a bad sound it was not really what I am after. Ideally I want that high-end Japanese sound, where it is clean and sweet but also awesomely open and revealing. Some say that is too 'polite' a sound for them, it doesn't sound like 'live music' but that is my preference and this wasn't it. This was more a warm, organic sound but a bit too rough and ready for me. Not distorted as such but with a bit of roughness around notes.

By this point though I had decided that having the mids dialled back was no longer working, I was losing a little bit of body to the sound. So I set them back to nominal.

Fed up a bit I decided to play Jimmy Page 'Outrider'. This is an album I often turn to if I really want to see how smooth or otherwise the sound is. Mid 'Eighties digital recording, loud rock music, Jimmy Page producing - it ticks al the boxes and this album will sound dog rough on a system with any tendancy to distortion or hardness.

I really thought this recording would sound awful and that would be an end to it.

but it actually sounded pretty good, easy to listen to, dynamic, a bit of raunch still there but now it was raunch rather than roughness. As the album progressed it sounded better and better. Now I was confused, was this the speaker cable burning in as advised?

I decided to go the opposite way and play something super smooth, AKA Steely Dan's 'Aja' - pretty much a pinnicale of analogue recording perfection. If this sounds anything other than superbly lush then you have problems with your system. The slightest, tiniest rough edge? If it is there on this album then it shouldn't be.

It was super smooth and almost faultless.

Last record of the night had to be The Doors - 'LA Woman'. One of my faves of all time this one. not a remaster or anything, original CD release, this can sound very good or quite poor depending on the system. I'd played it the other night with the LS1 in place and whilst it had not sounded bad I'd noticed on the final track (Riders On The Storm) that there was a halo of distortion around the keyboard, which is over to the back left of the mix. There is actually a little bit of distortion on the record but the system had over emphasised it and it sounded quite bad.

Not this time in fact I don't think I have ever heard this better. The thunderstorm effects were spot on, the rain coming down all through the track, you didn't need to listen for it, it was just there. Solid positioning of the instruments too, drums were a little soft but a minor criticism since that was a drum kit in the right corner of my living room and that was Ray Manzarek's keyboard almost physically (but invisibly) in the back left with no distortion halo, just the natural slight distort that is on the recording.

I had to leave it there, I have neighbours and it was past 2300 hrs by this point.

Still not 100% sure what I heard would be repeatable, could have been the late hour, my relaxed mood etc - but I trust my instincts over that I think. Will be having another session tonight and will hopefully see then what is real and what is imagined
 
Not sure if anyone is reading but I'll press on regardless ;)

Another significant improvement listening last night.

I was keen to try the two albums I listened to when I first installed the LS 1.5 to see if it was me or if it was the 'burn in.

It is the burn in no doubt in my mind now. The SRV really sounded much more refined, like a sophisticated hi-fi system playing a sophisticated hi-fi recording should. It definitely did not sound like this on the Friday. Steely Dan the whole mid and top much, much clearer and refined. subtle interplay on the cymbals and the hi-hats, very good, not heard it better on my system. Vocals back in the mix intelligible for the first time - not heard this before either. Not because they were forward in the mix but just sheer clarity. it is like a whole load of hash that was there before has disappeared.

Most noticeable on the SRV album, notes coming out of inky blackness. I know inky blackness is regarded as a bit of a cliché but it really does exist and it is a sliding scale. This has really slid toward the good end now. Again things seemed to improve as time went on.

There is a slight loss of bass compared to the LS1 but the whole mid is so much ore clear and sweet it is hard to worry about that too much. Might have to resume mucking around with the subwoofer again. I nearly had it working right before the last set of problems arose.

Could really do with speakers that match the room set up better. Not sure what. Beating the mid-range clarity on the Akai will not be easy. Thinking loosely about a three way with a large bass cab, sealed of course, and mid and top in separate cab on top with just mechanical filtering for the bass and mid as advocated by NVA. They do make speakers but they need a long clear wall to go up against and I don't have one.

Or maybe some open baffles on similar principles since my room is ideal shape for a dipole speaker system.

Getting there, anyway.

These are the Akai Speakers I am presently using btw:

 
Mart, I am reading this, will take more time tomorrow to give it more attention though, have been busy the past week or so! Maybe too this area would not get as much attention as the Modern area, yet you also have some vintage speakers in there that may be a bit unknown? Anyway, good to read about NVA, so carry on I say!
 
Hi Tim

Yes I appreciate this is a bit of a backwater on the forum but the o/p wanted to know what NVA amps sound like so I am doing my best. I hadn't envisaged the cable incompatibility with the vintage speakers so that has held things up a bit.
 
Those Akai's are certainly interesting Mart! Never have heard the beasts, but the way I look at it, if they are working well with your setup now, why screw with it? Keep on tweaking the current setup to the way you like it and let it rest for awhile and just enjoy it. I do appreciate the thought of different speakers though, they are always my sort of drug. The thing is, will it be better, or just again, different?

I have looked at the NVA gear on Ebay and thought it would be interesting to try, but am really not in the market or place in time to do so right now. You certainly do not hear much about it, but even way less here across the pond. I do find Richards designs to be interesting and somewhat thought provoking, but in the end, listening is what matters, putting rubber to road I would say. With the cables, amp, pre being thought of as a complete system, there is a lot to potentially admire and may take some guesswork out of the equation by going the NVA way.

Glad things seem to be shaping up though with the cable change and all. Hopefully things will continue to sound good for you.

Speaking of the NVA gear, how is the quality of build and fit and finish on them? I don't know myself how I would like the perspex/wood cases, but really again, the sound is where it is at, or should be anyway! At least the prices on his gear seem to be very reasonable!

Take care Mart, will be watching this space, thanks for your input and thoughts!
 
Speaking of the NVA gear, how is the quality of build and fit and finish on them? I don't know myself how I would like the perspex/wood cases, but really again, the sound is where it is at, or should be anyway! At least the prices on his gear seem to be very reasonable!
!

There's no wood on the cases. The power amp is in a perspex case with metal heatsinking. It is pretty solid and well built. Obviously the perspex case works fine with the passive pre-amp but I did have my doubts as to how it would be with a heavier power amp but now I have one in use it is not an issue at all.

£340 for a brand new power amp designed specifically for sound quality is a good price IMO. More than you would pay for a budget workhorse like a Behringer A500, admittedly, but that is not really in the same league in terms of the sound. These is hand-built equipment, made to order, but the direct selling (no dealer or distributer margins) and a realistic attitude toward profit margins means they remain affordable.

(For those with thousands to spend there is also a Statement range.)
 
I haven't looked at the cases in a while, I think some of them originally had wooden sides with the perspex everywhere else. Will have to check them out. I can see where they can work and look good though.

Definately the pricing is hard to complain about for sure. One can do many times worse on that score! And yes, certainly a different piece of gear from the mass market stuff.

I haven't seen or really heard of the Statement line, so have no idea what is different there.

Maybe someday I will have to take a punt and see what it is all about. Right now too many other irons in the fire, and there is a tube amp that is kind of wooing me as well. For now I just stay put and enjoy what I have though!
 
Too much hi-fi, not enough time ;)

I'm giving this lot a week or two to settle in now, will just be enjoying music for a while. I'll post some more impressions further down the line.
 
I'm reading too! Pretty much anything in British Audio is of interest. You've done quite a good write up. I'd say very useful as it comes from your reference point in your system. I can usually take away an impression when the reviewer tries to be objective as you have been.

You've made a lot of changes at once. Interested to hear what your ultimate conclusions will be.

Nice work on the review.
 
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