OH NO! More Cable BULLSH--!!!

[House de Kris]

Kris, would you consider writing a plain-English explanation of what a TDR does and the 75-ohm standard and bends in cables and such for the Digital Formats forum and here? I'd make it a sticky over there.

Sure, I'll give it a shot. Plain-English, eh? Has my English been plain enough so far, or does it need to be plainer? Not trying to be a wiseguy here, just want to find out if I'm communicating well enough.

 

[ginovino]

Eggzactly!

I am quite taken aback by the interest my comments have created. It seems the AK management may have misjudged who are the real adults among us. With 2 pages on this thread and growing. I believe the Adults have spoken, while not in agreement(thats good) we are talking and not name calling or calling out the Fire dept. GOOD FOR US!

There are a number of moderators out there which walk lightly around 'heavy" issues such as cables.Though while we have a cable advertiser on this forum, free dialogue about other brands merits discussion as well. That wasn't the intent of my review however.

I offer to send a non digital Newly factory terminated single Kimber Silver Streak with WBT-0147 plus a Monster M1000 MKII 1 mtr to begin the testing period. Just need to know who, when and how.

By the way, were any of you who saw my Original unedited closing comments offended by either it or, the heading to this thread? I'd be interested to see a show of hands to 1) see how many folks I aopologized to, OR 2) How we go about instilling a little more artistic license and less editorial censorship within reason.

Let me the first to wish us ALL well in this effort :tresbon: :yes: .

 

[shelby1420]

Hey, I hear what you are saying. Up until just a little while ago, I didn't buy it either. But then it was proven to me that it does make a difference in my system. How? I heard it. I was sure it wouldn't make a difference, but it was clear as day when it happened. My wife heard it, and she probably doesn't even know there are cables between components. You can read about it in my post about the Grover cables.
This is why we have our cable tests/trials going on. Sign up for some of the cables. Russ will put you on the list. Try them in your home. Spend two weeks listening to them and then report back what you hear. If you don't hear anything, that is cool too.All it is gonna cost you is the postage onto the next guy. Fair enough?

Oh, and there ain't gonna be any wars here. No ones ass is gonna get kicked. Just ain't gonna happen. This is an educational forum. We are all here to learn and pass on what we have learned. No need for battles here.

Just to throw my 2 cents in here....I was at Eric's house when Gary took out those Grovers and within 2 seconds of hearing them with the same song previously played on exactly the same system noticed a huge difference--improvements in every respect!!! Never would I have expected to have that much of a difference because of cables, BUT IT DID!!!! Only problem now is I'm thinkin of swappin my cables for???............................ :sigh:

 

[Negotiableterms]

Sure, I'll give it a shot. Plain-English, eh? Has my English been plain enough so far, or does it need to be plainer? Not trying to be a wiseguy here, just want to find out if I'm communicating well enough.

I think you're communicating fine. In the explanation, just remember to define terms like "TDR" before you use them, and the definition should be plain-english too. In other words, I've seen and even held a TDR, but I've no idea what it actually does, or how.

Thanks VERY much for your help!

 

[phidauex]

Lets remember, folx, this particular thread is about digital cables, not analog cables. There is a world of difference here, in how signals are sent, transmitted, and received. Properties that make an analog cable good or bad are unrelated to the properties that would make a digital cable good or bad, and just because something is good at one, doesn't mean it will be good at the other.

So.. Lets hear some more about this time domain reflector! I'd like to see how many 75 ohm nominal impedance cables actually ARE 75 ohm nominal.

Unfortunately, my scope is only 2mhz, and isn't nearly fast enough to show digital signals..

The argument for sonic differences in analog cables is based on some fairly solid objective science. However, the argument for sonic differences in digital cables is tenous, and based on some very difficult to measure properties that require a good understanding of how digital information is sent and received. I think there is something to be discovered here, but fundementally, the old argument is true, a bit is a bit is a bit, and it is either on, or its off. The key is, is the DAC receiving the bits it should, or are jitter and reflections in a poor transmission line causing erroneous data to be sent out? If we can determine that the right data is sent, then the right sound will come out.

peace,
sam

 

[Tangent]

Ju...Gary took out those Grovers and within 2 seconds of hearing them with the same song previously played on exactly the same system noticed a huge difference--improvements in every respect!!!

You mean "Eric took out the PYJ's and put in the Grovers", right?

Anyway, this thread is about digital cables so enough "thread crapping" from me.

I need to find a good digital cable for my CDP to DAC connection. Right now I am using the stock Sony cable that was free with the SACD/CD player.

 

[hpsenicka]

Anyone looking for a robust, well constructed digital cable should investigate www.bluejeanscable.com.

Not neccessarily the most stylish looking cables, but very good build quality at a bargain price.

They typically use Belden cable, and Canare connectors, but a few custom options are available.

 

[Tangent]

2/27/06- I have been advised that some AK Members have taken umbrage to my misleading Headline. ..... I am in quest of a suitable “digital” Interconnect cable ....

It might be nice if you could edit the thread title to include "Digital Cables" or something of that ilk.

It might be a little less confusing (to me, at least )

Just a thought.

 

[shelby1420]

You mean "Eric took out the PYJ's and put in the Grovers", right?

Anyway, this thread is about digital cables so enough "thread crapping" from me.

I need to find a good digital cable for my CDP to DAC connection. Right now I am using the stock Sony cable that was free with the SACD/CD player.

Right you are Gary!!! :thmbsp:

 

[rwortman]

Another naysayer. Every time the subject of the audibility of digital cables comes up the proponents trot out two possible explanations. Data errors and jitter. I can't argue that both may occur. I don't see how this would manifest itself as anything but nasty distortion. I cannot imagine how lack of data or timing integrity would cause recessed bass or tilted up highs or any of the other stuff attributed to them. If the cable is dropping bits how does it preferentially drop bass bits or treble bits? How does jitter cause a lack of bass response? Just once I want to see somebody "pass" a blind test of this stuff.

 

[nitrous]

Another naysayer. Every time the subject of the audibility of digital cables comes up the proponents trot out two possible explanations. Data errors and jitter. I can't argue that both may occur. I don't see how this would manifest itself as anything but nasty distortion. I cannot imagine how lack of data or timing integrity would cause recessed bass or tilted up highs or any of the other stuff attributed to them. If the cable is dropping bits how does it preferentially drop bass bits or treble bits? How does jitter cause a lack of bass response? Just once I want to see somebody "pass" a blind test of this stuff.

A double blinded test would be even better.

 

[Bigerik]

A double blinded test would be even better.

Hey guys.
We have cables available for testing. Don't just talk about it. Conduct the test!

 

[ginovino]

Another naysayer. Every time the subject of the audibility of digital cables comes up the proponents trot out two possible explanations. Data errors and jitter. I can't argue that both may occur. I don't see how this would manifest itself as anything but nasty distortion. I cannot imagine how lack of data or timing integrity would cause recessed bass or tilted up highs or any of the other stuff attributed to them. If the cable is dropping bits how does it preferentially drop bass bits or treble bits? How does jitter cause a lack of bass response? Just once I want to see somebody "pass" a blind test of this stuff.

While I am not compelled to explain myself futher, I was as surpised as the next person when the results developed as they did. I admitted my propensity for Kimber products, however I clearly made the point the cables original analog design specifications. Removing the analog component, while in MY SYSTEM the digital AQ VDM-5 outperformed the digital PS Audio xStream to my satisfaction. I stand by the audio characteristics heard eminating from the speakers.
It may well be my somewhat dated though very satisfactory Ultralink DAC may be sensitive to cable load or whatever its called. You recall I made a point of the failure of the Neutrik connectored cables from locking on a DATA signal.

In a conversation I had with the folks from Ps Audio the makers of the Ultralink DAC I & II and the PS XStream Resolution didgtal cable reviewed (were provided a copy of my writeup),were emphatic the connector impedance be 75 ohms (Video Freq range) It appears the Neutriks may not be or so it seems.

To put things into perspective. Is the Ultralink DAC the be and end all...certainly not. Though it was the numero uno unit several years ago and will likely hold its own against many of todays units. But its not the item under scrutiny is it?

Its the cables and only the cables. So on with the tests. I think we should test the freebie cables being made available right here on AK! Maybe Grumpy can make that happen quickly in our mutual interests?

Curretnly, I have a bead on the Kimber TGDL 1/2 meter on ebay. Pricey, but I a man on a mission! Don't try to snipe it on me now! :nono:

 

[onwardjames]

Alrighty, I'll be signing up fer those cables.

I'm sure analog cables vary GREATLY, but I'm just dubious about those digital cables.

Great sound is our passion, and so I am glad someone is pursuing this.

Keep up the science, men.