Ok here goes: One mans experience and opinion about the over sampling ripping of ALL HIS CDs ...

Discussion in 'Digital Sources' started by Bill Ferris, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. ldatlof

    ldatlof We are all steak Subscriber

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    I agree with Alobar and JoeESP9 regarding the use of .flac files and metadata. Moreover, the amount of processing power it takes to decode a redbook .flac file is negligible on a Raspberry Pi 3 (it averages 1.7% of 1 CPU core) so that is of little concern. The RPi3 has less processing power than a Pentium Chip.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
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  2. Andyman

    Andyman Scroungus Stereophilus Subscriber

    I'll join the fray on metadata too. My initial work with digital files was burning .WAV files to iTunes which worked fine until I decided to move them to another drive on my PC. Somehow, I borked the the transfer and the path to the metadata got fubared. It took me quite a while to manually reconstruct the paths so I had albums and artists rather than single files named 01-Take Five and the like.

    Twasn't fun.

    I've been using FLAC ever since and convert to 320 .MP3s for my car, which I dump on a thumb drive and shuffle play via a USB. But that may change too as my car unit software only recognize 100 files and is far more cumbersome than my phone via a Bluetooth FM transmitter to the radio. My daughter bought one of these KM18s for under $30 for my wife's car which lacked even an Aux input and it works VERY well.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Active Member

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    Ok guys, I`m curious why when I was using my Sony 400 CD player, until it failed, S/PDIF`s coax output feeding a S/PDIF splitter so that I could feed one S/PDIF output to a DAC(used for feeding my rack`s Mac preamp for analog whole house audio distribution) and another S/PDIF output feeding a inexpensive DAC that fed a low power Ramsey FM transmitter`s audio input so my brother in law next door could enjoy my music through his garage`s receiver while working out there. The last S/PDIF splitter`s feed went to my main living room`s A/V Integra`s S/PDIF`s aux input .. All devices fed this way worked perfectly.. Now the point of this.. When I ripped my CDs @ 192 kbps WMA and bought a Peachtree X 1 USB to S/PDIF converter to use a lap-top to play through the same S/PDIF setup as before, all worked perfectly as before, except the Integra.. No sound, though it indicated that a signal was present.. I could put a 16/44.1 CD in that same music streaming lap-top`s optical drive and when played all S/PDIF fed devices worked as before the switchover to computer streaming, including the Integra.. So my bottom line point is-- if my 192 kbps ripping and playback is considered not really high fi enough, it would seem that it`s higher then the max allowable 24/96 S/PDIF`s copyright spec. limits .. I`m certain that this can be explained to me by people on this site .. I`m still new to this computer ripping/streaming situation and trying to understand as much as I can.. Thank you. Kind regards, OKB
     
  4. Andyman

    Andyman Scroungus Stereophilus Subscriber

    That's just weird. Maybe the Integra can't read the .mp3 format, or is these some sort of switch you need to enable? MP3 is about as basic as it gets, so I'd be shocked if it couldn't decode it.
     
  5. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Active Member

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    MP3 ? None of my music file`s properties in my lap-top indicates MP3, but are all listed as WMA.. And when I was offered music from a external hard drive by a friend recently, I checked out the music file`s property`s and they were all listed as MP3, so I kindly declined as they were even less SQ than my ripping @ 192kbs.. So I don`t think that is not the reason IMHO.. A SACDs high def. layer will not pass through S/PDIF as I have read and also experienced here on AK and the owner`s manuals of my OPPO, and Integra due to the max digital transfer bit rate copyright restrictions.. When I play/stream my computer music into one or the other DACs they report the streaming bit rate feeding them at 192(I believe their highest decoding rate, or at least one) USB may not be as bit rate copyright restricted as S/PDIF.. I don`t know or care, as I have to take thumb drive with all my ripped music, and either insert it in the Integra`s USB port or the OPPO`s to play my ripped music into the main living room`s system, where as before 16/44.1 CDs played through the whole S/PDIF coax based setup perfectly, as I conveyed.. I believe the Integra will decode/play just about anything fed to it, with the exception of the S/PDIF bit rate restrictions above 24/96.. Thanks for your interest and input Andyman.. Regards, OKB
     
  6. Andyman

    Andyman Scroungus Stereophilus Subscriber

    My bad on the .MP3/WMA thing, but it does seem to be some sort of S/PDIF issue as you can play the rips from the USB port, but not via the S/PDIF input.

    SACD is a whole 'nuther can of worms probably complicated by the fact that some decks play both SACD and CD media, which are vastly different as exhibited by the fact SACDs are VERY tricky to burn and require one to jump through several software hoops. As to S/PDIF, it won't pass DSD SACD output, but will pass is after it's been converted to PCM, which some decks do.

    Truly, an interesting situation. Hopefully, someone will come forth with a solution for us!
     
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  7. Alobar

    Alobar Flight of the Cosmic Hippie. Subscriber

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    Much confusion on this thread concerning the number 192. 192kbps has absolutely nothing to do with 192khz!
     
  8. +48V

    +48V hi-fi or die

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    [edit mine]

    While "on paper" 192kbps lossy is not the "utmost" in sound quality by the numbers; as you, your "bat eared" friends, (along with countless others) have now discovered, lossy audio can be astonishingly close to being transparent. -->a.k.a. indistinguishable from the original.

    What you are experiencing is simply a completely natural and normal feature of the human brain and how we humans perceive sound. It's not as much your ears mate, it's simply your very normal and quite capable brain. ;) :)
     
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  9. +48V

    +48V hi-fi or die

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    Indeed. I thought we both covered that pretty concisely in posts 45 & 46. Obviously it hasn't completely sunk in yet. :D

    There is a lot of confusing and overlapping numbers and terms with digital audio. Is daunting even for some "experts" let alone a novice. Just a learning curve.
     
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  10. +48V

    +48V hi-fi or die

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    If those MP3s were 192kbps then they were technically equal to your WMA 192kbps rips. MP3 and WMA are virtually the same compression scheme when it comes to the lossy quality scale.

    If the MP3s were ripped less than (128k, or less) then they were less. If they were greater than 192k, then they were of better quality than your WMA rips. :)
     
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  11. ldatlof

    ldatlof We are all steak Subscriber

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    I was wondering how the OP knew that the mp3s were of lesser quality than his WMA files without listening to them. Maybe he compared file size. :dunno:
     
  12. +48V

    +48V hi-fi or die

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    FWIW, the file size would've been very near if not the same.
     
  13. ldatlof

    ldatlof We are all steak Subscriber

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    So 192kbps WMA and 320kbps mp3 are very close in size. I did not know this. As for mp3 I have only used 320kbps for my car via its USB port because it will not play flac files. Thanks for the info.
     
  14. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Active Member

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    Thank you +48V Sir.. I just wish to have some quality sounding music available for my 4 rooms back "ground music" for the wake up to either shut down my system of my background music, or the switch over to watching a DVD/BluRay movie, now that my background music delivery source is via a computer.. If I, and or my visiting friends choose to do some critical listening then I warm up the over 20 consuming amp drawing tri-amp living room system and roll SACD, BluRay pure audio discs, MFSL, Steve Wilson re-mix offerings through the OPPO BDP 103`s player`s optical media drawer input.. I, last night sat in the living room and listened critically for over 2 hrs. the 133 songs on my wav lossless ripped test thumb drive plugged into the OPPO`s USB.. And my perception was that there was a good amount of improvement when listening in that high resolution setting, but not enough for me to rip/re-rip all my CDs at any higher rate for back ground varying resolution systems scattered around my house.. If the music sounds as good to my ears as the same CDs did when played via the now defunct Sony player.. Then that`s good enough for my application.. I like listening to good sounding music not the technic or equipment.. Thanks again +48V.. Regards, OKB
     
  15. ldatlof

    ldatlof We are all steak Subscriber

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    I wouldn't re--rip a 1000 CDs for background music either.
     
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  16. +48V

    +48V hi-fi or die

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    While the fusion article makes some salient economical "what if" points; this opinion article and it's data is well...dated. Given more recent official reports/numbers from content owners and streaming providers, the trending "spike" in paying subscribers (see chart above) is a much better barometer to measure those who are actually willing to now pay for streaming services currently.

    My point to your point was that a big tide is indeed (at last) coming in. Call it "flocks" or schools of fish, this data clearly indicates that the general public is now coming on board and getting used to the idea of paying for and supporting music streaming services.

    I agree the present cost structure for streaming services does not ultimately bode well for any given "stand alone" concern. In the past, the attrition rate was $taggering. A big factor in that was and is to a point today was scale.

    The best analogy that comes to mind is that this is an Insurance game. Yes, the big boys (Amazon, Google, Apple) will and do offer it as a loss leader. They have the cash in the bank to easily wait out the "starving" stragglers. But it's fair to argue that things in this universe change daily and there are ways & means for the stand alones to make a go of it all, (parnterships, IPO, cost reductions, label advancements/discounts, etc. So I'm not so quick to prevail a soon and sudden death at this point. Especially concerning a body count leader/influence such as Spotify.

    Spotify may go tits up next month, next week, or tomorrow. But it's a bit myopic and short-sighted IMO to not consider the considerable revenue leverage they now have in their quiver. Tidal, et.al. however has their work cut out. But they're working on it. Longevity and sustainability in this business is and has been a most complex, fickle, and weird dynamic.

    As for the present big three and stand alones at this point, overall, it's a day at the track and the Price Is Right rolled into one. But one thing is for sure; they are putting asses in the seats!

    [shit] we/I really need to find and move this thread jack to another home. :p
     
  17. +48V

    +48V hi-fi or die

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    Not at all. Not sure where 320k came from. What I said was a 192k WMA is very close (if not the same) as a 192k MP3 file size. For the intent and purposes of this muddy thread, MP3 and WMA are pretty much identical compression codecs.
     
  18. +48V

    +48V hi-fi or die

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    At the end of the day, it now appears you are indeed following some well advised advice! :thumbsup:
    Who was it that said that? Oh yeah......
    So there you go. enjoy your rips!
     
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  19. stoutblock

    stoutblock If it sounds good, it must be right... Subscriber

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    Well I did not read all the posts. I also have the same Oppo player and it has a very respectable sound. Decent musical quality with very good detail. For my main system I have found a well executed PCM1704UK DAC to be superior in several ways, The Oppo delta sigma will get no complaints from me.

    I am a senior just a couple years less than the OP and have also been impressed with the results of taking redbook resolution up a couple of clicks. On the fly playback with DSD in particular seems to have an effect I like (although the PCM1704UK cannot process this). In the end, personally I rip all my CDs with FLAC at their original resolution and take them to higher resolution at playback if I desire. This saves storages space but does increase the demands on the processor during playback. As far as the pros and cons of taking something to a higher resolution than the original source? I know it makes no sense but about a third of the time it seems to improve things. Don't know why, maybe it is the way things are processed? But sometimes sources just sound more discrete and isolated. Maybe something is being fabricated that was not in the original recording?

    Anyway, if it sounds good, it must be right.
     
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  20. Alobar

    Alobar Flight of the Cosmic Hippie. Subscriber

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    As it turns out the premise of this thread has changed. It started out that ripping cd's at a higher resolution than the cd itself sounding better, to what actually occurred. Turns out the cd's sounded good enough ripped to lossy 192 kbps (not 192khz) for background music.
    However your last sentence is probably what we all can take from this. If it sounds good....
     

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