ok , this is weird, sudden loss of volume...

[jeremyjustic]

Hey guys, had something weird happen yesterday. While doing some work in my living room, I temporarily unplugged my system from the outlets, leaving all rca connections in place, and slid the rack out. When I put everything back, plugged everything up for some weird reason the phono volume is about half of what it was. I would normally turn it up to about 1/4 volume now I have to turn it up to about half volume to get the same audio level. weird.

The only thing different is I re routed the power cords and moved the power conditioner, other then that all settings and connections were unchanged.

The other components, laptop/cd player all play at the same level as before , it is just the phono input. any thoughts?

 

[loudnoises]

Swap the cable out, check connections are tight.

 

[bobaloniny]

Well, as described, your problem doesn't make a lick of sense (which you have already surmised).
Can't recall your system off hand, but running a separate phono stage? Anything get jostled with that, power supply, switches etc? Sure you have both channels working (low volume and all)?
Any controls or switches on the pre or whatever that affect just phono?
Play with the associated rca's or swap out just to eliminate that possibility?
This process is like casting a jitterbug over some water that you aren't quite sure of....after enough casts in all directions, somethings liable to come up.

 

[whoaru99]

Yeah, checking/reseating the connections/cables is a good idea.

Mute switch?

Do any of the units that were unplugged have settings for input sensitivity/level adjustment, or other settings in memory that were maybe lost with power disconnected?

 

[Son-of-Vere]

Usually cables being jostled results in one channel being effected, I'm going with switch/setting. Unless the cable being affected supplies ground for both channels.

 

[4-2-7]

I have seen more people have problems with power conditioners, try another outlet.

 

[onplane]

Hey guys, had something weird happen yesterday. While doing some work in my living room, I temporarily unplugged my system from the outlets, leaving all rca connections in place, and slid the rack out. When I put everything back, plugged everything up for some weird reason the phono volume is about half of what it was. I would normally turn it up to about 1/4 volume now I have to turn it up to about half volume to get the same audio level. weird.

The only thing different is I re routed the power cords and moved the power conditioner, other then that all settings and connections were unchanged.

The other components, laptop/cd player all play at the same level as before , it is just the phono input. any thoughts?

You did not mention your equipment, so we are all tossing out ideas. My idea is to focus on the problem - low phono volume. SOME amps have a sensitivity switch for the phono input. If your amp has such a switch ... flick It!

Regards,
Jerry

 

[jeremyjustic]

ok thanks for the responses guys. This is really puzzling to me.

my system is as follows.

Soundsmith retipped Denon dl-103r
fidelity research fr 54 tonearm
Garrard 401

Threshold Fet 10pc phono preamp
Threshold Fet 10hl preamp
Threshold s/300 amplifier

Dali ikon 6 speakers

Kimber silver streak interconnects

Zu audio power cords

power conditioner ( and I use that term loosely) originally was a furman pl-pro when I moved the cords I switched to a Tripp lite. Now that I am typing this the only thing different in the system is the tripp lite, I'll trade it back out and see what happens..... to be continued.

 

[jeremyjustic]

ok so after messing with the system again here are some updates

first , the preamp is a pretty simple Nelson Pass design so there are no mute switches or anything like that. I swapped rca's tried different phono preamps , different power cables etc, nothing changed. I also swapped out the tripp lite power strip back to the Furman, no change. I then hooked up the second tonearm on the 401 and the cd player, both were at the same volume level as the first tonearm set up. So it appears to be a system wide problem, not just that phono input. hmmmmm.....

so this leads me to two other possible sources of the problem.

1: When I hooked the system back up originally I first tried playing my laptop through the audioquest dragonfly. I got a crazy weird interference almost like a fax machine type noise. I unplugged the laptop and switched outlets thinking it could be a ground loop type situation, didnt help. then the dragonfly stopped working. When I took the cable out of the dragonfly and plugged directly into the headphone jack it worked perfectly. Now the dragonfly wont light up, indicating it is working, nor make any music.

2: The project that started this whole thing.... We just bought the house we have been living in for 5 years. My partner has always hated the wall to wall carpet in the living room. So naturally three days after closing she insisted we pull up the carpeting exposing the hardwood floors. Now I was expecting the transition from wall to wall carpet to hard wood floors to wreak havoc on my sound but I assumed the less absorbent hard wood would reflect the sound more, essentially giving me more volume with all that sound bouncing around. Is it possible the difference in volume could be from room acoustics? I would think the difference would be the exact opposite, the more absorbent room would take more volume to reach desired spl and the less damped "live" room would use less volume to reach the same spl. In my mind that is what makes the most sense but I guess it could be the exact opposite. Any thoughts here?

So could the problem be the system was damaged somehow when I first hooked it back up causing the dragonfly to die and possibly frying something in the preamp or amp or is this completely room acoustics related?

The system sound good and everything (aside from the dragonfly) seems to be working properly the only difference is I have to turn the preamp up twice as high to get the same volume. Not that big of a deal but it just concerns me that something could be wrong.

 

[Mister Pig]

If it is only a volume issue on the phono side, my guess would be something has failed in the pre amp on the phono circuit. If the CD payer output can be swapped into the same input as the phono goes into on the line stage and there are no differences...then that isolates the issue to the phono stage.

If you have another turntable or cartridge that can be swapped in, then it could eliminate an issue with the table or cartridge.

My guess is the phono stage, but it needs some work done to eliminate other potential causes.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[jeremyjustic]

If it is only a volume issue on the phono side, my guess would be something has failed in the pre amp on the phono circuit. If the CD payer output can be swapped into the same input as the phono goes into on the line stage and there are no differences...then that isolates the issue to the phono stage.

If you have another turntable or cartridge that can be swapped in, then it could eliminate an issue with the table or cartridge.

My guess is the phono stage, but it needs some work done to eliminate other potential causes.

Regards
Mister Pig

As of now , I have two different tonearm/cart combos , two different phono stages and the cd player plugged in to the preamp, switching between the three the volume is about the same. going to the laptop with the cable plugged into the headphone jack the volume is louder, more like what it was before. I really only used the dragonfly with the laptop before so I cant be sure if the louder volume through the laptop is because I am now using the headphone jack.

 

[Hawkeye83]

I'll tell you, I'm seemingly experiencing the same thing, in two different systems I have! I have a likely explanation for my "office" system...maybe for my "main living room" system too?

1) Main living room - Digital sources (Nvidia Shield, Roku 3, DVD player) -> Monoprice HDMI switcher (digital coax out) -> Peachtree Decco 2 integrated/DAC -> KEF 103.2 speakers/sub.

So in this system, for the longest time I only needed about 9 o-clock on the dial MAX. Suddenly I needed to go to 12:00 - 1:00 for the same volume. Speakers were recently re-capped in this system. Not sure what's going on, other than maybe caps breaking in? Anyway, now it's back to only needing 8-9 o-clock on the dial. Weird!

2) Office system - PC/turntable -> Juicy Blueberry pre -> Monarchy SM 70 amp -> Quad 57 speakers/sub. All plugged into voltage regulator and power conditioner.

I think in this system, it could be one of a few things. I need to fiddle with balance controls a lot. Also suddenly the system became quite BOOMY, where I needed to turn the subwoofer way down from its previous setting, where I had it for several months and it sounded "good."

Possibilities?
- bad tube in preamp? Pre was making noise, in its previous system, which is why I moved it. Not getting the noise any longer, but now getting a mild distortion, noticeable during quiet passages...and then the sudden weird change with the "boomy" bass. I plan on trying a different preamp here. If the new preamp improves thing, changing a tube in the Blueberry should do the trick I think.

- Quad speakers finally showing issues and needing some work. They are "closet queens," not restored. I've been using them around 9 months, 5 days per week. I suspect they would benefit from a power supply rebuild.

- Power conditioner or voltage regulator causing issues.

- 2 of the speaker cables I'm using are about 15 years old. Not likely causing the issue, I don't think, but need to change these! Plus I tripped on one of them shortly before this happened. I did check the connections, but I need to get some new cables in place. Planning on some Monoprice for now, since that's what I have available. Would like to get some Morrow.

- Other?

So just wanted to lend my "support" here and say I've experienced the same thing!

 

[jeremyjustic]

I'll tell you, I'm seemingly experiencing the same thing, in two different systems I have! I have a likely explanation for my "office" system...maybe for my "main living room" system too?

1) Main living room - Digital sources (Nvidia Shield, Roku 3, DVD player) -> Monoprice HDMI switcher (digital coax out) -> Peachtree Decco 2 integrated/DAC -> KEF 103.2 speakers/sub.

So in this system, for the longest time I only needed about 9 o-clock on the dial MAX. Suddenly I needed to go to 12:00 - 1:00 for the same volume. Speakers were recently re-capped in this system. Not sure what's going on, other than maybe caps breaking in? Anyway, now it's back to only needing 8-9 o-clock on the dial. Weird!

2) Office system - PC/turntable -> Juicy Blueberry pre -> Monarchy SM 70 amp -> Quad 57 speakers/sub. All plugged into voltage regulator and power conditioner.

I think in this system, it could be one of a few things. I need to fiddle with balance controls a lot. Also suddenly the system became quite BOOMY, where I needed to turn the subwoofer way down from its previous setting, where I had it for several months and it sounded "good."

Possibilities?
- bad tube in preamp? Pre was making noise, in its previous system, which is why I moved it. Not getting the noise any longer, but now getting a mild distortion, noticeable during quiet passages...and then the sudden weird change with the "boomy" bass. I plan on trying a different preamp here. If the new preamp improves thing, changing a tube in the Blueberry should do the trick I think.

- Quad speakers finally showing issues and needing some work. They are "closet queens," not restored. I've been using them around 9 months, 5 days per week. I suspect they would benefit from a power supply rebuild.

- Power conditioner or voltage regulator causing issues.

- 2 of the speaker cables I'm using are about 15 years old. Not likely causing the issue, I don't think, but need to change these! Plus I tripped on one of them shortly before this happened. I did check the connections, but I need to get some new cables in place. Planning on some Monoprice for now, since that's what I have available. Would like to get some Morrow.

- Other?

So just wanted to lend my "support" here and say I've experienced the same thing!

Thanks for the moral support... still haven't solved this mystery. As of now I have changed out every component except the preamp and amp. I am going to try swapping out each one and see if either makes a difference. I also have to pull everything out again anyway so hopefully when I do that whatever happened will fix itself....wishful thinking I know.

 

[Mister Pig]

As of now , I have two different tonearm/cart combos , two different phono stages and the cd player plugged in to the preamp, switching between the three the volume is about the same. going to the laptop with the cable plugged into the headphone jack the volume is louder, more like what it was before. I really only used the dragonfly with the laptop before so I cant be sure if the louder volume through the laptop is because I am now using the headphone jack.

My guess is an issue with the pre amp then.

Will be curious to know what you ever find out.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[whoaru99]

Thanks for the moral support... still haven't solved this mystery. As of now I have changed out every component except the preamp and amp. I am going to try swapping out each one and see if either makes a difference. I also have to pull everything out again anyway so hopefully when I do that whatever happened will fix itself....wishful thinking I know.

.

Do you care to get a bit scientific about it? As in doing some measurements to try to establish the apparent gain, then compare that to the specs of the gear...if available?

 

[jeremyjustic]

SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!

So you guys were right, it was something totally stupid! Apparently when I hooked up the laptop I plugged the rca into the tape recorder output. first thing I have no idea why or how it would still play being plugged into the tape output or why having something plugged into the tape output would reduce the volume by half but I hooked it back up in the proper input and the system is singing like before!

Oh man I am so happy this was an easy fix and nothing is wrong with the components!

Now I have some proper tunes to scrape tile too! back to work, you guys enjoy your Saturday!!!

 

[jeremyjustic]

And thank you guys for all the help and advice!