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Okay. Two channel and Home Theater. It cant be mixed

Discussion in 'Home Theater & Video' started by HiFiJeff, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. HiFiJeff

    HiFiJeff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    790
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    I want to start a fight! A debate. Whatever you want to call it. I have been trying to mix the two. I just got in a Pioneer Elite FX102 I think it's called. It is simply destroying my Allo Volt. It's not even a comparison. My system went from eh, to [mod edit]! Like ridiculous! I am going to do some serious two channel listening soon but if this Pioneer does the same on music as it does on Home theater. Well my friends. Game over.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2018

     

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  2. Duane

    Duane AK Member Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,846
    Location:
    San Diego
    This my personal opinion. I actually prefer listening to most music in surround. I have a McIntosh MX-121 pre-pro mated with an MC-7205 multichannel amp. The MX has several surround mode options and it just sounds more engaging than plain stereo. But, stereo sounds excellent as well. So, to your statement, they can be mixed.
     
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  3. Erik Tracy

    Erik Tracy Super Member

    Messages:
    1,690
    What is the Allo Volt?

    All I could find is something that is a $30 mini circuit board D-class amp.
     
  4. sKiZo

    sKiZo Hates received: 8642 Subscriber

    Maybe not with your system, but I regularly use both my stereo and AV systems to fill the house, and can source select from anything attached to either. AV system is a 7.1 in the theater area, and the "classic" stereo is a quad with a Hafler center channel added.

    Luck of the draw I guess.

    Oh - wait ... you're just saying that your multi-channel AV setup runs rings around your stereo? There again, my classic quad is way better than the AV 7.1 for total immersion, but I've dedicated YEARS to getting that "right", and just basically plugged in the AV system with speakers put pretty much where the room allowed. No treatments or anything special there, so it stands to reason ...
     
  5. fredgarvin

    fredgarvin AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  6. chip18sw

    chip18sw Active Member

    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Dayton NV
    Aww, well "what you experience, is how it's "supposed to be." I chased the HTC Dragon, up the chain! WIth Yamaha, I started with an AVC 50 back in the day ... 4 channel so those that don't know. Two front and two rear channels. Integrated amp 45 watts per channel but would drive two ohm loads!

    It was/is a great piece, I bought it new way back in the day and uh it still works! :)

    Most likely ... I should have stuck with and just changed "processors" as time went on?? But I did not, back then "apparently" things were changing fast?? And now 5.1 was they way it was??? I think I still have a DSP 100?? Hmm had to look that one up?? Ok, It's not my imagination ... I still have it!

    But back then crap was changing fast and now ... 5.1 was where it was at??? And now 5.1 was where it was at and Yamaha, was right in front ... yeah what you have is great ... but this is better! And the DSP 2080, with Yamaha's endless array of DSP modes and two front effect channels (pre 7.1 yo) ?? Was now where it was , I bit it was a $2000 unit but at sale for half that and I got one!

    It was a 5 channel amp and pre amp out for the extra effects channel. It was outstanding ... when it worked!??? Apparently there was an "issue" with the motorized volume control??? It worked fine for a year and then crap went sideways??? Issues with that volume control and the next year Yamaha went AC 5 Dolby Digital with the 3080???

    WHT, I was bitter at that point! The 2080 ... was the last State of the Art ...HTC uh crap I spent real money on! As the saying goes ... they don't build them like they use to??? In retrospect, when it had issues, I don't think I sent it in repairs?? Most likely .. not a good call on my part?? But I was used to buying gear that uh "worked just fine without issue??"

    And these days, HTR, Receivers that do everything but make coffee, are not uncommon?? $2000 to 4000, range for a freaking "HT Receiver??" Is not uncommon??? I say ... good luck with that crap?? A decade from now, we will know how much of that stuff still works?? I quit chasing the HT, Dragon at 5.1!

    But and back on point ... my more "wealth friend did not!" So I get his hand me downs! These days you have to have to the HT, stuff! HTC is where it's at??

    So I have "options" ... and yeah I'm a Dinosaur, it would seem?? It's been bugging me?? It would seem that somehow ... something changed in what I do???

    I can't let of the past, if I want to listen to "music??" Two channel seems to be where the is?? What I seem to care most about ... is scoring speakers?? And for that ... all I need is a "Receiver" and something to power them with??


    The stuff i don't use is a "SoundStage Aargon One," (5.1) and a very expensive unit at the time! If I was content with 5.1, setting that up with 5 matching (for the timber matching up thing) that would be the way to go! But sigh ... I have it but it just sets?? And again from my friend?? I have a "Nuforce Apt 16" ... this time I have 7.1!! Along with that ... setting unused is a Acurus 250 amp?? So yeah ... I can do "better" sonically then what I actually use ... day in and day out??

    But ... I don't really seem to care?? What I care about ... is what I don't have?? And what I seem to care about most ... is "Speakers!" And all I need for that .. is something to power them!

    And these days, in and out "HTR's" and remote control ... is a necessary evil?? So it would seem ... that all I really care about is "Speakers??" And all I to power them with??" So for "me" a POC. Pioneer HTR in a "Box Pioneer VSX 411" ... gets the call!!

    Subwoofer out, is really alI, I seem to need??? It's powerd my little crappy LX 5's for years! That and my Technics AVX 920 that six channel or not could not drive my "vintage" Visonic Sub One (1973) ?? But "bi amped" which it could do ... no problem! :)

    Aww well a lot of words?? But to answer the question, I seem to do music, when that is my goal ... in two channel mode?? And streaming these days??

    And the streaming thing ... yeah that seems to have been another issue I stumbled onto?? I first used my "mach One's" with CD's?? And you know "crap or not" I luv them!! But when I try different speakers with uh pretty much everything different granted. It's not the same?? The Pioneer and streaming with my newly discovered Sansui Sp 1200's is not the same??

    But hey I'm apparently too lazy to compare like for like?? So these days all I really care about is finding great speakers, for next to nothing!

    My KG'4 and LX'5' I had to pay the going right rate for at the time. My Nova 8's and my Mach One's I pretty much stole! The only bad news is that with either of those ... timber matching 7 or more in a HTC set up in my house is not gonna have ... if I want to keep the wife also??

    But whatever ... I have thought about it and new TV's and Dolby Atmos now??? All I really seem to care about is finding great speakers at next to nothing?? I'm looking for some A-Hole, getting rid of a pair of Klipsch La Bella's, for next to nothing, it happens???

    But trying to cram a pair of those into our home, would be "epic!" And yep if I find them ... I'll most likely hook them up to my crappy little "Pioneer" HTC! Audio ... does not have to make sense?? If you enjoy your HTR in "DSP" mode ... more power to you! "

    Losing one's mind with "audio" is only likely to result with a "knock on the day from cops" and a warning to "Dial it down!" If you do with crap with "car's??" Violate "common sense" ie yep this looks like a 170 plus road to me, NV. They will take your ass to jail ... felony speeding?? So I've heard. :)

    But for those that enjoy there music in the various assorted, DSP ... modes ... no problem!! As the saying goes "Rock On!" As for me ... yeah the "Pioneer" is still hooked up! With my, newly discovered Pioneer Sp 1200's! I mean they still work and 15 bucks for the pair in great shape ... common on!!

    But hey ... I will grant I have no idea what they sound like on their own?? They are crossed over to a sub! And after years of use ... I was having "withdrawals" from not having my LX' 5'S in use?? So plus to plus, minus to minus ... I have the LX's hooked up to the Pioneer and the Sansuis's!

    So I guess the LX'5 are now "Super Tweeters??" The only complaint was from my better half, turn it down??? Now it down not seem that loud to me?? But "apparently" the LX's 5's and it's "linium tweeter" and basically with "zero" stress on it's tiny woofer ... can cut right thru wall's?? So you know ..."turn it down" it was??

    Aww well a lot of "rambling I suppose??" But if you enjoy your music in "DSP" mode ... more power to you! No one can say "your wrong??" Well I guess they can, but you know whatever! "Rock On" as the saying goes! :)
     

     

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  7. simplynuts

    simplynuts Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Music on one system that is stereo andmovies and tv on the hometheater.
     
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  8. Dingman

    Dingman Do you know where your towel is? Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,405
    Location:
    Des Moines, Ia
    I was surprised at my basement, cheapo, get away HT. It uses all Klipsch, and turned out to be the best system for music, sounds just great in 2ch or surround - all with surround processor.
     

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  9. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

    Messages:
    16,521
    Location:
    Philadelphia PA
    Sorry, but they can be mixed. The solution is to build a "good" two channel system and add surround/HT capability using a pre/pro and the necessary rear speakers and amplifiers. This way you have a two channel system with little to no compromising that at the flick of a switch becomes an HT system.

    My basic two channel system is listed in my signature. All my two channel sources are connected directly to my stereo preamp. For two channel listening that's all I need to turn on. All HT/surround sources are connected directly to my pre/pro. For HT/surround I place my two channel preamp in bypass mode and my pre/pro controls everything. So, I have a (IMO very good) dedicated two channel system that with the flick of a switch becomes a full HT/surround system.

    That I use separates makes this possible. There is no receiver ever made that has a hybrid preamp driving an electronic crossover and DSP with tube driven main speakers and dual bridged SS driven subwoofers. I also use bi-amplified rear speakers using an electronic crossover and dual stereo power amps.
     
  10. Audiofreak71

    Audiofreak71 Boerboelicious Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,187
    Location:
    PNW
    Like @JoeESP9 said a good home theater is built around a good 2ch setup , if you get your 2ch right first then dialing in a home theater is much easier and will sound much better , I have my setup that way although most of my listening is 2ch when I do switch over to watch movies with the family it’s easy and sounds extremely good .

    Audiofreak71
     
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  11. Ross6860

    Ross6860 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,661
    Location:
    Ohio
    I've disliked every HT receiver I've had in the last 15 years, compared to even mediocre two-channel.

    I also hated my EMOTIVA pre-pro driving an ATI-1505 power amp.

    A system like the two folks have above is probably the way to go, although not for the faint of wallet. Maybe I'll get some use out of that ATI amplifier yet.
     

     

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  12. chip18sw

    chip18sw Active Member

    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Dayton NV
    Aww the HTC things just gets ... seriously "complicated" if you live in a small house and if you care if "people can actually move around in t?? 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 and now last iIrecall, 11.1??

    How many freaking speakers are you expected to add??? And if you happen to think the "timber matching" thing is important?? Then your screwed from a "Decore" point of view? If I was bachelor ... most likely ... I would have seven set's of Mach's One, Nova 8's or KG 4's in the living room?? : )

    That's just not gonna happen and good luck to the "Maggie Crowd! :)

    It all got to crazy?? My better half, has no interest, in turing on a preamp and power amp to watch tv?? So all my better HTC stuff ... just collects dust?? And day in day out it's just a bottom of the line "Pioneer HTR" that gets day to duty, in two channel mode! And she won't even use that!!

    She cranks the crap out of the volume on our Toshiba LED TV! I am worried, she's gonna blow the speakers out on it!! Most likely I'll get a "Soundbar" for it, turn ,the "internal" speakers off , on the TV and call it day!
     
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  13. Ross6860

    Ross6860 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,661
    Location:
    Ohio
    I actually heard some decent music from my HT setup last night. I may have to re-think this a bit.

    I have to admit I've recently "downgraded" my HT speakers in the last few weeks. Main speakers are now New Large Advents (from Klipsch Chorus II), and I had to turn off the LFE out.

    I think I have a problem with the plate amp in the sub, or the Onkyo is sending way too much signal. In any case, the sub is unusable and sounds terrible.

    I played the DVD Aqualung Quad Mix off of the Steven Wilson re-mix boxed set. Obviously, it should have sounded different, but it wasn't just different, it was good. I've been listening to the "album" for over 40 years and I heard words enunciated clearly that I've not heard before. Lots of folks say Aqualung was a pretty poorly recorded album to begin with. This version is not poor.

    The Quad Mix was laid down in both 96/24 DTS and AC3. I set the Onkyo on DTS and let it play. Player in the HT system is my Oppo.

    A pleasant surprise ensued.
     
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  14. chip18sw

    chip18sw Active Member

    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Dayton NV
    LOL you got that hughe Klipsch in there also, that is impressive! :)
     
  15. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

    Messages:
    16,521
    Location:
    Philadelphia PA
    I'm a member of the Maggie crowd. I have four panels (Maggie 1.7's front and Acoustat Model One's surround) along with four subs in three cabinets. One sub is a dual in a fairly large box.

    I don't have a center channel speaker. I'm running phantom for it as I don't have the space for another panel. In any case, since there is enough space for two to fit the sweet spot. My companion and I are not missing anything. Although my pre/pro will accommodate 7.1, I don't know about the future. For now I'll stay with my current 4.4 setup.

    I also live in a small house. Years ago (25+) I knocked down a wall and turned my living and dining rooms into one larger listening room. When I decided I wanted surround/HT sound it was easy enough to add the necessary gear and speakers to my two channel separates.

    As for multichannel SACD's or music DVD's my SACD player has an HDMI out. While the two channel analog outs are connected to my stereo preamp, the HDMI output feeds my pre/pro. I also have a Blu-ray player that does quite nicely with Blu-ray audio disks.

    Maybe, when I get the needed transformer for my Acoustat Spectra 22's I'll use them also and go to a 6.4 system. My dilemma will be which speakers to use for the fronts, the Spectra 22's or the 1.7's.
     
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  16. Erik Tracy

    Erik Tracy Super Member

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    OP hasn't been seen since the first post (but has been on AK since then)...I call
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. chip18sw

    chip18sw Active Member

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    Location:
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    LOL ... 4 "Maggies" and knocked down a wall??? That is hard core!!! :)

    And thanks for the "Phantom Mode" tip!! That ... totally works!! And it takes "Timber Matching" the fronts off the table!.
     
  18. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

    Messages:
    16,521
    Location:
    Philadelphia PA
    My real point is that my two channel system is just that. It's a (IMO) fairly good two channel system. Adding surround/HT capabilities to it did not in any way effect my two channel sound.

    With judicious choices it's easy to have both stereo and HT in one system without compromising two channel sound.

    Some are dissatisfied with having no CC speaker. With a phantom CC you can't tweak the CC levels as my pre pro allows.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  19. twiiii

    twiiii Addicted Member

    Messages:
    6,226
    Location:
    west Texas
    The only reason some folks think you can't mix the two is because the speakers they choose aren't adequate to do both. Most folks want point source speakers for Stereo systems. They just down't have enough clarity and dynamic range for HT use. If your speakers are more efficient have controlled dispersion and can handle more power and you can find a matching 3rd speaker for the center then there is no reason you can't do both. I do both with the stereo system also being analog only. I throw a switch for the Left right speakers either to be analog from the C-34V preamp, or the Left and right speakers for the HT set up with a MX 151 for a digital inputs whether they be stereo in the pure stereo mode or multi channel in the Movie mode. The are also other modes available to. I can also send the analog signal to the MX 151 if I want to have 3.0 sound or 5.0 or 7.0 sound. My MP 100 amplifies my moving coil cartridge analog out puts for the C-34 in the analog mode and sends a digital optical signal to the MX 151 for a digital stereo or multi channel production. Let me tell you the MP 100 feeding the MX 151 in the stereo digital mode out performs the c-34 in the analog mode most of the time driving my MC 207 amplifiers. 3 channels each for the left and right speaker each tri amped, 2 channels each for the center and rear channels each bi-amped and one channel each for the two side speakers. That's 14 channels.

    I just got my L&R front channel Crown EQ-2 out of the shop and its as good as new. All it was was dirty controls.. I hope the other EQ-2 and Audio control EQ's keep performing well.
     
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  20. KB007

    KB007 Member

    Messages:
    76
    Yes they can mix, but it does require a little thinking to get it right. I currently use my Anthem AVM60 pre-pro as a 2 channel pre-amp for music - it has a direct, unprocessed analogue setting, which works very nicely. The main L and R channels are Totem Mani2s driven by the Krell 402e and sounds awesome. For HT (Atmos) I have 2 X Anthem MCA-50s to handle centre, all the surrounds (back, side) and ceilings.
    The key is to find a pre or receiver that has a direct capability. In the past I had an Anthem MRX-700 and before that multiple other HT receivers. None of them did a credible job on 2 channel analogue.
     

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