Old Nichicon Muse Capacitor replacements.

[QSilver]

I have a Pioneer A-777 and a A-77X that I want to refresh. I'm thinking of starting with the A-77X. I had some problems with the LEDs and the power board which I've fixed (bad capacitor and a blown power lamp).

The EQ and power amp boards use Nichicon Muse capacitors, they're polarised, green and look to say "Nichicon KS". I couldn't find any modern series of Muse capacitors. Which of the new series would be the best choice? Fine Gold FG, KW, KZ??? I'm mostly looking at what is available at Mouser.

I just want to find something that will at least equally match the original quality of the capacitors or maybe a little improvement. I'd appreciate some opinions or maybe some help finding information about the old Muse KS series.

 

[avionic]

You can get " KS" in "snap-in".. FG's have the greatest selection at Mouser. Modern "KS" is renamed " Hi-sound".

 

[QSilver]

Aren't those KS snap-in types not part of the Muse range? How does "Hi-sound" compare to FG?

 

[Bob]

re-check. current Nichicon Muse ES are green, have "BP" (for bi-polar), and have no
white channel wrap indicating negative (-) lead. and are classified for audio use.

for values outside the ES line. try "VP".

KZ, ES, FG are all good caps for audio.

 

[Goldie99]

There were earlier series of Nichicon Muse caps, from ca. 1980's I believe, which are no longer available - I've never been able to find a reliable datasheet for them, but the attached photo shows 2 different Nich. Muse caps (one of which is the earlier KS), both were original in an early '80's Sony amp, both green, both polarized, and both long since obsolete.



A lot of people seem to think the present green Nichicon ES is the only Nichicon 'Muse' cap now available - that's not the case, there are still at least 3 'Muse' capacitor types, e.g., the attached comparison pdf from Nichicon, lists the KZ, FG, and ES (bipolar) series all as 'Muse'. When I re-did the Sony amp, I used mostly FG & ES, depending upon function / location.

https://www.mouser.co.uk/new/nichicon/Nichicon-Audio-Caps/

 

[Blue Shadow]

http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/alm_mini/index_diagram.html for the smaller caps

http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/alm_larg/index_diagram.html for the larger caps.

sections with audio caps and where they rank in both diagrams.

 

[QSilver]

Thanks for the picture, Goldie99. Thats exactly what mine are. I was thinking of going for KZ where I can find instock values and FG for others. I would've liked to see a data sheet though so I know if I am at least matching specs. I removed one of the capacitors to get a clear picture to show it is a Muse KS. Another picture showing the larger 3300uF KS capacitors, also marked "Muse" and To the right of that picture, you can see a Bi-Polar Muse which I imagine I'll replace with a Muse ES.

Sorry for the slight blurryness, my camera doesn't seem to want to focus properly atm....

 

[Blue Shadow]

datasheet, google nichicon UKZ and you get a pdf of that caps specs. Same with most of the others or you can go to Mouser and click the link to the datasheets. Of course you could get their catalog dl and look over way too much information.

I believe Nichicon's site has replacements listed for some discontinued caps, maybe not the 80s stuff, though, I don't know haven't had to dig deep.

 

[QSilver]

I've found the datasheets for the new ones, just the old 80's one's I'd like to try and find. I guess that being newer versions of the Muse series they might be better? But I'd like to be sure. I'll have a look through the Nichicon site.

 

[Hyperion]

just the old 80's one's I'd like to try and find

30+ year old electrolytic capacitors? - wouldn't you think they'd be past their shelf life by now?

 

[QSilver]

30+ year old electrolytic capacitors? - wouldn't you think they'd be past their shelf life by now?

Oh no, I meant find the datasheet. No way do I want NOS of those!

 

[ItsGarand]

PIONEER A-77X Audio Grade Electrolytic Capacitors

Assembly Location Capacitance uF Voltage V Nichicon Count Polarity

Voltage Amplifier Assembly (GWH-171)
GWH-171 C9,C10 470 25 UKZ1E471MHM 2 NP
GWH-171 C3,C4,C5,C6 100 25 UKZ1E101MPM 4
GWH-171 C33,C34,C35,C36 47 63 UFG1J470MPM 4
GWH-171 C29,C30,C31,C32 100 63 UFG1J101MPM 4

Equalizer Asembly (GWF-161)
GWF-161 C29,C30 22 25 UFG1E220MDM 2
GWF-161 C25,C26 3300 16 UFG1C332MHM 2
GWF-161 C21,C22 22 25 UFG1E220MDM 2 NP
GWF-161 C111,C112,C113,C114 2.2 50 UFG1H2R2MDM 4
GWF-161 C101,C102,C103,C104 220 25 UKZ1H221MHM 4
GWF-161 C109, C110 47 25 UKZ1E470MPM 2

Right Output Assembly (GWH-173)
GWH-173 C38 2.2 100 1 NP

Left Output Assembly (GWH-172)
GWH-172 C37 2.2 100 1 NP

Power Supply Assembly (GWR-217)
GWR-217 C1 100 100 UFG2A101MHM 1
GWR-217 C2 3.3 50 UFG1H3R3MDM 1
GWR-217 C3 22 25 UFG1E220MDM 1
GWR-217 C4 33 16 UFG1C330MDM 1
GWR-217 C5 470 6 UKA0J470MDD 1
GWR-217 C6 10 50 UFG1H100MDM 1
GWR-217 C7, C8 330 50 UKZ1H331MHM 2
GWR-217 C9 47 50 UKZ1H470MPM 1

Function Asembly (GWS-523)
GWS-523 C11, C12 1.5 50 UKL1H1R5KDDANA 2
GWS-523 C21, C22 47 10 UFG1A470MDM 2

 

[QSilver]

That's a great list - but always check the size of the new ones vs the originals. Usually new capacitors are smaller BUT the FG and KZ series are usually much larger than the originals. I've found this to be an issue on a number of units such as the A-77X voltage amplifier assembly, power supply. I've had similar issues on things like the M-90 and C-90.

 

[ItsGarand]

Good suggestion! I had not really considered checking the size. The data is from a spreadsheet that I started last week. I am contemplating replacing all of the E-Caps in my A-77X. I have not even considered size yet. The 77 is so old, I don't think I can find a real cross-reference on-line.

 

[QSilver]

I consider the A-77X new in comparison to most things I work on

Really do double check sizes - especially around the power supply its cramped down there. Id go so far as to measure each one with callipers and then check the dimensions prior to order. Sometimes they're too tall, sometimes too fat and sometimes both. Thats usually only the case for the KZ/FG type capacitors but still, I've learnt to be wary of this on amps from this era.

The biggest problem you'll find on the A-77X is try solder joints - especially on the voltage amplifier board. Check each one.

EDIT: Just out of interest, I discovered that all the original "audio grade" capacitors Pioneer used in this gear have non ferrous leads. Checking against other capacitors I've found that only the audio grade capacitors have non ferrous leads also. In theory, using a capacitor like PW or Panasonic FC or FM might cause a degradation in quality as those all have ferrous leads (according to my current stocks) I'm not sure how great a degradation - quite possibly not audible, but there it is. Put here purely for the purposes of information.

 

[ItsGarand]

Since it seems that almost all of the original E-Caps in the 77 are Nichicon (green) MUSE, I have not even considered using anything other than Nichicon UFG or UKZ.

My 77 is still kicking, so if anything I be fixin the thing that ain't broke or breaking the thing that don't need fixin.

The voltage amplifier board probably should be addressed - as I have posted in another thread, both channels have a pretty toasty section where two resistors and two zener diodes are.