On Germanium Diodes

Karl vd Berg

Super Member
Hi all,

Not asking "what" are germanium diodes, but rather when and if they have to be replace (1N60, 1N34A, e.g.) with only same types or also with another one like the AA119.

Or... if they can also be replaced with another type of modern Si diode (less "voltage drop") and if it would affect the sound somehow...

3009544780_a35edf6b8c_b.jpg
 
It is the other way around.

The voltage drop for a silicon junction is about 0.7 volts and for a germanium junction it is about 0.3 volts.

As far as replacement, it would be somewhat circuit specific, however in general, if the original design called for germanium diodes then that is what should be used.

What is the application you are asking about?
 
What is the application you are asking about?

It's in an old amp (1975) board.

The old unmarked (unknown) germanium had pretty different values (.230 up to .415 in the MM) I decided to replace them. Someone said to replace with the AA119.

After replace them I noticed the sound a bit more TREBLE and missing a bit the deep bass, not punchier as it as before...

Here below the new three AA119 diodes:

p4070375.jpg
 
If I had to replace one with a silicon diode, I'd choose a Schottky diode that had about the same voltage drop the germanium one had.
 
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If I had to replace one with a silicon diode, I'd choose a Schottky diode that had about the same voltage drop the germanium one had.
Tomorrow I'll be shopping some components (mostly TRs). Which Schotty diode one you'd take to replace the germaniums. Just in case. I have the amplifier open anyway. Good chance to my ears and more experience...

And jancumps, tonite I'll put back the old germaniums to see if I have that deep bass sound back.

Didn't know germanium diodes could have some impact in sound quality. :scratch2:
 
Tomorrow I'll be shopping some components (mostly TRs). Which Schotty diode one you'd take to replace the germaniums. Just in case. I have the amplifier open anyway. Good chance to my ears and more experience...

And tonite I'll put back the old germaniums to see if I have that deep bass sound back.

Didn't know germanium diodes could have some impact in sound quality. :scratch2:

Frankly, if you can get a germanium replacement that might be best. Choosing a silicon Schottky replacement would require studying the datasheets of available Schottky devices, and choosing one that had a similar drop at the current running through the germanium diode in your circuit.
 
It also depends on where int he circuit the diode is located as to the replacement. The original "may" have been a Zener diode. I reworked a Radio Shack solid state HAM reciever, one of their last models because of lack of sensititivity, and they were al 1N60 types except for one unmarked zener used as limiter. Same size and appearance as the original 1N60's. All but 2 of the original diodes had excessive leakage.

So you may just want to look at that part of the circuit around each of those diodes- you may have removed a Zener.
 
G'day all, yes I wonder what the exact application in the circuit is? If they are zeners, well they have to be replaced with zeners of the correct 'voltage'.

Can I ask why the diodes are being replaced in any case? Unless faulty (shorted or open) diodes do not need replacement.

True 'germanium' diodes are getting rare now, my local electronics hobbyist shop now only sell germanium diode 'equivalents' which are actually silicon schottky diodes with germanium diode characteristics.

I actually find them excellent with low 'turn on' voltage and no appreciable reverse leakage, unlike typical germanium diodes. I use this one: BAT46 http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZR1141 Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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Hi, all I can add is that germanium, as a detector, is much more sensitive due to the 0.3v threshold versus .7 for silicon. I have experimented quite a bit with germanium as a wide-band radio detector. File under: 'other'
 
They all appear to have identical internal structure. If these were in the detector stage, they "should" be the same.

How do they test with meter? Germaniums do tend to be a little bit leaky normally so the ratio of forward bias resistance to reverse bias resistance should be about 1:6 or higher. If lower, they are too leaky and replacement is the right choice.

Digikey carries the Schotky Diodes mentioned by Catman produced by Vishay or ST. And they ship globally.

Something you might try, is locate old stock surplus glass diodes from the old days of computers, back when Nixie tubes were king. You might have a radio HAM operator who may still have such a stash. Most were likely Schotkey's or Germanium, but I scored a a few pounds of them and with a little trial and error those that were sonicly useful, were easily sorted from the mass.
 
They all appear to have identical internal structure. If these were in the detector stage, they "should" be the same.

How do they test with meter? Germaniums do tend to be a little bit leaky normally so the ratio of forward bias resistance to reverse bias resistance should be about 1:6 or higher. If lower, they are too leaky and replacement is the right choice.

The old unmarked (unknown) germanium had pretty different values (.230 up to .415 in the MM) I decided to replace them. Someone said to replace with the AA119.

After replace them I noticed the sound a bit more TREBLE and missing a bit the deep bass, not punchier as it as before...

Here below the new three AA119 diodes:

p4070375.jpg

Still didn't try any Schottky as the shop does not have the so far only suitable (safe) here, the 1N5817.
 
Thanks, John! I might try to put back some old Germanium but now I don't know which one should go to original place, since they have different values...

That is a problem. But the amp was not functioning satisfactorily with the old ones originally, but enough incentive to try a few different things.

If it were mine, I would look at the circuit each came out of to determine use. If it were directly in the audio path, I would use the one with the highest ratio of resistance, and the worst ones for non audio paths. That way, the audio path sees the cleanest signal. If two are for the FM detector, I would try to find a matched pair of 1N60/1S60 germnaiums, they are still out there, and in the mean time try the Schotky diode already mentioned.
 
G'day all, judging by the hi-res photos posted by the OP earlier I am almost sure that what were presumed to be 'germanium' diodes were actually zener diodes as they 'look' exactly the same!

Zener diodes are generally used to provide some sort of voltage reference in a circuit and are therefore critical for the proper operation of the circuit.

Ordinary germanium or similar diodes will therefore not work as intended! As I said earlier, whilst there may be merit in 'recapping', this does not apply to replacing diodes unless they have actually failed.

I strongly suggest that the OP return the original diodes to their original circuit positions through correct identification through documention. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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G'day all, judging by the hi-res photos posted by the OP earlier I am almost sure that what were presumed to be 'germanium' diodes were actually zener diodes as they 'look' exactly the same!
Sorry to disagree, but I have never, ever seen a zener diode looking like that - and I've seen many zener diodes. They are all considerably smaller than that (or have a plastic case for the power types), and do not allow to see the chip. The large (0.3" x 0.1" dia.) clear glass case with just one paint strip for the cathode is long obsolete, typical of germanium diodes. Besides it's really easy to tell for sure whether these diodes are germanium, silicon juction or schottky (the latter being very unlikely, especially in this application). Just use the diode voltage function of any $20 multimeter, the voltage will tell you which kind it is: around 0.15 V for a schottky, 0.3 V for germanium, 0.7 V for silicon. I can't believe that three diodes went bad simultaneously unless the power supply failed, so the test is assured to give the answer.

To the OP: it would help considerably to have a schematic if at all possible, Even hand-drawn from the PCB, that would be vastly better than nothing at all. Besides, it would be interesting to know why exactly you want to replace these diodes :scratch2: In other words, I concur with Felix's final sentence, although for different reasons.

And to reply the question of the first post: if you have to replace a germanium diode it is always a bad idea to replace it with a silicon or a schottky: the junction voltage does matter, and also the temperature coefficient in quite a few cases. Germanium calls for a germanium replacement. As for the type within the germanium family: as long as the voltage, current & power ratings are the same or higher, I don't think it can really make a difference. It might in some more sophisticated circuits using silicon diodes where capacitance matters, but that's extremely unlikely here. AA119 and 1N60 are practically the same, and often used for replacements.
 
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