Onkyo: Vintage or New?

[dzkfraser]

I got started paying attention to gear when I got a TOTL receiver to replace my old, lowly TX 2500 MKII. What I discovered is the old Onkyo has one of the best phono stages I've heard. It crushed the new one (not Onkyo). Their phono sections are so good I am using a 8500 MKII as a preamp in my main system.

An 8500 as a preamp? - what the hell is your main system?

 

[Guest126]

Hey lbls1... first, I appreciate all your input.
But I wasn’t sure what you meant at the end there by “You will need to be careful, as if you intend to add a phono, then you should shop carefully...”
Do you mean if I’m using a TT with an AV receiver then I should make sure it’s a good one for that purpose?

I meant that you should select an av receiver with the phono input jacks. Many av's don't come with dedicated phono jacks, thus requiring one to buy a phono pre-amp if the receiver doesn't have phono rca's.

 

[Guest126]

I just have no experience with receivers, and since I’m on such a strict budget, I don’t want to buy something and then have it burn out, or end up unsatisfied,...you know? I just want the most bang for my buck, and sound quality for a TT.
That’s why I joined this site! To put all the pressure on you guys!
Haha

Gotcha...smart move. My opinion is that if you are a novice, then the safe way would be to buy new. At least with new you are protected with a money back clause, and a product warranty. It is still good to get opinion and feedback, but your best defense will be your own research. Check out a hi fi item with reviews, and competitive shop with similar items from different makers. Most important, take your sweet time. You'll know when the time is right and which product to buy when you've done good research and are sure of what you intend to buy.

 

[grillebilly]

An 8500 as a preamp? - what the hell is your main system?

I was using a McIntosh MC275 VI up until this week and now have a MC452 as the amplifier.

 

[birchoak]

Notes on power: 50 watts isn't a huge difference from 70 watts. To go twice as loud, in watts, you need ten times the power. Vintage receivers tend to have more grunt, more available solid power than the more recent A/V & home theater jobs, which are infamous for manipulating their specs to make you think you're getting a receiver that could summon Poseidon from the bottom of the ocean but in reality will barely put a ripple in your tea cup. Having been a collector of hi-fi for the last ten years, I can tell you it is extremely rare to find an untouched vintage piece that's going to work flawlessly without some servicing. It may be fine for a few months, maybe even a year or two if you're gentle, but one day you get up to hear some Marantz 2230 magic and, wtf, why is it doing that? It wasn't doing that yesterday. You open it up, clean the controls, and that seems to take care of it, but it comes back a week later, and soon you can't stand listening to it and begin your repair journey: do I send it out? Do I take it somewhere, if such a place exists near me? Do I try to fix it myself?
It's not unlike owning a vintage sports car; at some point, it's going to need some work to perform soundly.

Your safest bet is probably buying from someone here at AK, who will be honest about the condition of the piece and whether or not it's truly been "serviced." For something to be truly serviced, you need a master tech with a scope, signal generator, etc. who can bring the device back to factory specs. People at AK tend to care enough about their equipment to have this done or are least far more likely to have done so than sellers on those big public auction sites. Just my .02.

By the way, my kid and I love Beaker!

 

[Skytoucher]

Notes on power: 50 watts isn't a huge difference from 70 watts. To go twice as loud, in watts, you need ten times the power. Vintage receivers tend to have more grunt, more available solid power than the more recent A/V & home theater jobs, which are infamous for manipulating their specs to make you think you're getting a receiver that could summon Poseidon from the bottom of the ocean but in reality will barely put a ripple in your tea cup. Having been a collector of hi-fi for the last ten years, I can tell you it is extremely rare to find an untouched vintage piece that's going to work flawlessly without some servicing. It may be fine for a few months, maybe even a year or two if you're gentle, but one day you get up to hear some Marantz 2230 magic and, wtf, why is it doing that? It wasn't doing that yesterday. You open it up, clean the controls, and that seems to take care of it, but it comes back a week later, and soon you can't stand listening to it and begin your repair journey: do I send it out? Do I take it somewhere, if such a place exists near me? Do I try to fix it myself?
It's not unlike owning a vintage sports car; at some point, it's going to need some work to perform soundly.

Your safest bet is probably buying from someone here at AK, who will be honest about the condition of the piece and whether or not it's truly been "serviced." For something to be truly serviced, you need a master tech with a scope, signal generator, etc. who can bring the device back to factory specs. People at AK tend to care enough about their equipment to have this done or are least far more likely to have done so than sellers on those big public auction sites. Just my .02.

By the way, my kid and I love Beaker!

I ended up grabbing a 1988 Kenwood KRV-127R rated 130W from a guy who owns a shop and cleans and services everything he buys and sells. His shop is an impressive collection of vintage audio; he seems to have a wealth of knowledge. So hopefully this one lasts awhile.

The Kenwood was one of the first in the Dolby 5.1 shift but it seems to still be very much a 2 channel receiver (with a phono input).

I haven’t heard the setup yet since I’m waiting on a custom bookshelf, but I’ll update once I do.

Thanks everyone for the input. I’m having a blast with this new hobby that seems I was always meant for.

 

[birchoak]

Way to go! 130 watts is more than enough (a full orchestra checks in at about 65 watts) to deafen you before it starts clipping. Who you buy it from is everything. Let us know how it sounds, and enjoy.

 

[7whales7]

I have a Tx 4500 mkll it's a great vintage receiver, arguably Onkyos best line of receivers, and usually affordable. Usually will have a few lamps burned out, but not to hard to replace.

 

[dpdatl]

My experience with modern mass market amps and receivers is negative. My Marantz 8004 broke out of warranty and my tech could not get parts. I had the same experience with HK gear too. My advice is to find a nice vintage 70's receiver or amp that works well and save your coin to have it restored. There are plenty of threads on how to clean up a vintage piece . Quality can be restored. Consumer grade garbage ends up in the trash.
Scour your local thrift stores and you will soon find a cheap av/receiver for $20 to $50 to get you going. Then research early stuff and scour craigslists, letgo, or offerup for vintage gear. There is a lot of great gear out there and with a little patience you can find a great vintage piece for under a $100. Look for Sony and Onkyo as they are undervalued compared to some. The more collectible stuff is more expensive but deals can be found. For about $300 to $500 depending on where you live you can get a very thorough resto. You will have a piece of audio history that will serve you well for several decades with minimal maintenance and the pride of ownership in a piece of industrial art.
I wish you the best of luck in whatever path you choose. Its a rabbit hole many of us here have been down. I am sure many would echo my experience as well.