Open Baffle Epiphany!

valvenator said:
...and you know it ain't the aluminum or nickel. Apparently Cobalt is found in very few parts of the world and due to politics, etc. at one time it became almost unobtanium.
Manufacturers had to resort to a different type of magnet and the ceramic was born. Much cheaper but not as powerful as the Alnico version.
That is why a ceramic magnet speaker has to weigh a ton in comparison to an Alnico one. Instead of that small plug of Alnico you need that huge ceramic ring.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the increased understanding of AlNiCo speakers!!
 
After re-reading the last 30 pages or so of this thread, I'm thinking about trying a larger full/wide range alnico driver in larger baffles. I currently have some 8 inch Heppners mounted in small baffles.

It has been mentioned that the Zenith CZ802 is a great full range driver to use in OB. But these drivers are hard to find.

So......., my question is what OTHER 12 inch full range/wide range alnico drivers are good for OB? I'm looking to keep things simple...very simple. I prefer to have just a single driver, with NO crossover. BUT... I would consider adding a single capacitor to filter the highs going to a 12 inch woofer along with a good tweeter... as long as someone can tell me where to put the capacitor.

Suggestions welcome...thanks!!

EDIT: I listened to this:

...and really couldn't detect much above 10K Hz. Yes, I have hearing loss even with wearing a good pair of hearing aids.

Maybe "wide range" will be good enough for me???
 
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hnash53 said:
EDIT: I listened to this:

...and really couldn't detect much above 10K Hz. Yes, I have hearing loss even with wearing a good pair of hearing aids.

Maybe "wide range" will be good enough for me???
Click to expand...

Thanks for scaring me !!!! I could not hear till 90Hz ..... went to my Stereophile test disk and I hear 20Hz no problem - lowest on disk.

Perhaps it is my computer? Test disk does not do high freq BTW

I am building a Jordan speaker(s) ..... now I am thinking about open baffle too ..... dang
 
kray said:
Man you guys got me jumping down another rabbit hole... now i wanna build some OB's!

I'd really like to copy this: https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/2016/08/29/eminence-beta-12lta-on-open-baffle/

Has anyone built OB's with Eminence full rangers?
Click to expand...

Looks like the Dirty Weekend guys are being tempted by the dark side OB guys. Lol.

My ZU’s aren’t going anywhere but downstairs to my living room and throwing the OB’s in the theater room. I have to see, or hear what all the fuss is about.
 
HiFiJeff said:
Looks like the Dirty Weekend guys are being tempted by the dark side OB guys. Lol.

My ZU’s aren’t going anywhere but downstairs to my living room and throwing the OB’s in the theater room. I have to see, or hear what all the fuss is about.
Click to expand...

Lol for sure. Keeping and love my Zu’s but OB’s will be a nice DIY project. Also the drivers are very similar to Zu. Full range with super tweeter. No crossover
 
hnash53 said:
After re-reading the last 30 pages or so of this thread, I'm thinking about trying a larger full/wide range alnico driver in larger baffles. I currently have some 8 inch Heppners mounted in small baffles.

It has been mentioned that the Zenith CZ802 is a great full range driver to use in OB. But these drivers are hard to find.

So......., my question is what OTHER 12 inch full range/wide range alnico drivers are good for OB? I'm looking to keep things simple...very simple. I prefer to have just a single driver, with NO crossover. BUT... I would consider adding a single capacitor to filter the highs going to a 12 inch woofer along with a good tweeter... as long as someone can tell me where to put the capacitor.

Suggestions welcome...thanks!!

EDIT: I listened to this:

...and really couldn't detect much above 10K Hz. Yes, I have hearing loss even with wearing a good pair of hearing aids.

Maybe "wide range" will be good enough for me???
Click to expand...

Check out big organ speakers like Conn, Baldwin, Hammond etc. pulled from tube organs, also Magnavox from tube consoles which look similar to the Zeniths.
 
gmfgmfgmf1 said:
Thanks for scaring me !!!! I could not hear till 90Hz ..... went to my Stereophile test disk and I hear 20Hz no problem - lowest on disk.

Perhaps it is my computer? Test disk does not do high freq BTW

I am building a Jordan speaker(s) ..... now I am thinking about open baffle too ..... dang
Click to expand...

This is probably a not-so-good test of hearing frequency. I could hear as low as 38 Hz with this, but was 10 Hz lower using another "test."
 
hnash53.....I don't know if you ever see or might come across any Isophon/Telefunken(Noresco,Canadian) 12 in Ovals out on the coast,but they might be 'Very' suitable for what you are asking about,depending,on your Music/volume preferences?

I've happily hung on to my Noresco Alnico version pr.,and just now pulled them,and see they have a sticker on them,these were distributed(assembled into cabs) here in Canada under the 'Noresco brand'....Possibly sold at Simpson Sears/Sears or Eatons/Canada store,so may also be Badged/branded with these names,and maybe any old school Big store names you had south of the border too?......

Each of my speakers had rear Silver stickers,branded Noresco speaker..Model number.... NE 561/8 8 ohms 20watts shhhhh,whatever you do don't tell anybody!.

I'm near certain they're identical to model Isophon ph2135,(check number please)and the reason I mention it,is they may in fact be 'much cheaper' to you if you can find any under the sleeper Noresco name?.....I think the earliest Isophon version of these first came out in 16 ohm,but Isophon and Telefunken were Never cheap,new or used.

Noresco products,were sold locally out West in Vancouver(Canada),when I was a teen.

Most important the Isophon/Noresco's I mention sound somewhat colored,but in my opinion really great with low watt tubes,and also low watt SS.
Me I Really Like tubes and Alnico,and of course Vinyl was King back then too.

I used a 3 watt tube Integrated Scott knock off(with Loudness control engaged),an 11w S.E.T.and a Marantz 10-13w ss receiver,or integrated,Low watts,and preferred recapped 3 watt best with Reggae lp's,and often thought my friends GLOW(4-7w?) might be a perfect match,just saying......

....I own Noresco(Isophon) Coax version,with single cap,the tweeters are alnico,they have 2 littleRed dots if I remember on an inverted dust cap,and consist of paper cones,and have a metal,completely closed in back,& sound 'Really 'Exceptional'... for vintage tweeters....in my opinion!
.Later,paid like $2.35 for 2 new caps,and it was like a night/day improvement,cheapest 'tweak' I've ever tried!

..I still don't want to give them up,as years ago scooped a 3-way Telefunken console pull,6 inch mids that Sound Absolutely Amazing,but was surprised that their matched Telefunken tweeters sounded only so-so.
As far as I'm concerned the Isophon tweeters Totally blew them away,but hey was a 60's console,please keep that fact in mind,and would you want somebody else's tweeters to sound better than yours,so kinda makes sense in that respect,if Isophon made the drivers....

At the time was told the Telefunken woofers were made by Isofon,but these may be Ceramic magnets,as they're 3 in round(?),but as they are proper 12 in Oval console woofers,this time I want to mount one 12 Oval vertically,with 6 in Tele mid,then 12 in Tele oval woofer below,or just Dual 12's Coax on top,I'll try card board mock up,might use Mini dsp,and bi-amp..oh,oh,another retirement project!...O.M.G!

I ended up selling off my earliest Pine diy baffles,keeping above components..

Later on,I especially liked Noresco's Coax using the Loudness(properly modded) switch Engaged on my re-capped Eico ST-70,(35w per ch tube integrated)which gave a Super Sweet Phat Bass,(sounded just like my Camco(DW) Maple 24 in bass drum).....but you really have to 'watch your Volume',because,you could blow them easily doing this.

Supposedly above Coax also sounded good in an apeirotic,box(aka Dynaco A-25)and also with rear backs removed off speaker box cabs they came in,a safer choice with kids/pets,and get them up on stands,tweets at ear level....

Pretty sure I have participated in an AK thread,regarding above Isophon/Noresco co-axials,when years ago,another member mounted 1 Oval Coax per baffle Horizontally in an absolutely massive Wide/Tall OB plywood baffle,think it was like 5 ft across,for Each speaker,so Each speaker was Crazy HUGE!......I liked that Version,Tim Allen Grunts inserted here!.....
Vertical mounting also discussed,in fact it was where I got the idea,my reasoning was baffle could be narrower,my preference..........keep in mind this was early days of OB Experimentation,and 'Baffle step',was being bandied about,but the bass on the Wide baffle was very good,Altec & I think Wharfedale too did this years before this,and so may be worth pursuing at this point in time,as I still see Wide/Squat baffles used?

Just for the record..I'm not a fan of Loudness switches,at all,consider them 'Distortion generators'....but for some reason the Eico sounded exceptionally good engaged at lower Listening levels,Jazz,Vocals,Acoustic anything,so it suited my lower level late night listening perfectly back then,in my opinion.

See,I think I kept this thread down to 10,000 words,so I'm doing better!

EP Concert Kenny,tonight's movie/concert...Grand Theft Parsons,and 'Return to Sin City'....a Tribute to Gram Parsons...
 
Last edited:
Kenny said:
hnash53.....I don't know if you ever see or might come across any Isophon/Telefunken(Noresco,Canadian) 12 in Ovals out on the coast,but they might be suitable for what you are asking about,depending,on your Music/volume preferences?

I hung on to my Alnico version pr.,and just now pulled them,and see they have a sticker on them,these were made/distributed(assembled into cabs) here in Canada under 'Noresco brand'.

I'm near certain they're identical to model Isophon ph2135,(check number please)and the reason I mention it,is they may in fact may be 'much cheaper' to you if you can find any under the Noresco name,mine I'm pretty sure are 8 ohm version,earliest Isophon version of them first came out in 16 ohm(I think?)

I remember turning up a friends Dad stereo(when he wasn't Home,haha),and it was for sure a near new Noresco ,which consisted of a turntable mounted on top of a solid state Integrated amplifier,(all original),and branded Noresco,and the speaker cabs were identical size,and also same real veneer Walnut,so its highly likley,same as my pair.

The above mentioned Noresco,were located out West in Vancouver(Canada),when I was a teen.
The TT was a Dual,and was attached,came with the unit.


The above Isophon/Noresco's I mention sound somewhat colored,but in my opinion really great with tubes,or low watt SS.

....I own above Coax version,with single cap,tweeters are alnico, with closed in back,& sounded 'Exceptional' for vintage,in my opinion!
And ...I only paid $10.00pr,minty Walnut cabs,so price was right.
Later,paid like $2.35 for 2 new caps,and it was like a night/day improvement,cheapest 'tweak' I've ever tried!

..I still don't want to give them up,as years ago scooped a 3-way Telefunken console pull,6 inch mids that Sound Absolutely Amazing,but was odd that their matched Telefunken tweeters sounded only so-so,and as far as I'm concerned the Isophon tweeters Totally blew them away,but hey was a 60's console,please keep that fact in mind,and would you want somebody else's tweeters to sound better than yours,so kinda makes sense in that respect,if Isophon made the drivers....

At the time was told woofers were made by Isofon,and are also 12 in Ovals,so this time,I want to mount one 12 Oval vertically,with 6 in Tele mid,then 12 in Tele oval woofer below,or just Dual 12's Coax on top,I'll try card board mock up,might use Mini dsp,and bi-amp..oh,oh,another retirement project!...O.M.G!

I ended up selling their Pine diy baffles,,and keeping above components..

I especially liked their sound using the Loudness(properly modded) switch on my re-capped Eico ST-70,(tube integrated)which gave sweet Phat bass,but you really have to 'watch your Volume',because,you could blow them,they supposedly sounded good in an apeirotic,box(aka Dynaco A-25)and with rear backs removed off speaker box cabs they came in.

Pretty sure I have participated in an AK thread,regarding above co-axials,years ago,another member mounted 1 per baffle vertically in an absolutely massive Wide/Tall OB plywood baffle,think it was like 5 ft across,so HUGE!....I think the bass was good,so may be worth pursuing....or not?.

I'm not a fan of Loudness switches,at all,consider them 'Distortion generators'....but for some reason the Eico sounded exceptionally good engaged at lower Listening levels,Jazz,so it suited lower listening nicely in my opinion.

EP Concert Kenny,tonight's movie/concert...Grand Theft Parsons,and 'Return to Sin City'....a Tribute to Gram Parsons...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions... I'll be looking for some of those you mentioned.
 
Poultrygeist said:
Check out big organ speakers like Conn, Baldwin, Hammond etc. pulled from tube organs, also Magnavox from tube consoles which look similar to the Zeniths.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions. Do you know of any way to tell if these speakers are full range/wide range?
 
hnash53 said:
Thanks for the suggestions. Do you know of any way to tell if these speakers are full range/wide range?
Click to expand...

My 12 inch Zenith 49CZ802's were pulled from a console which also contained 8 inch mid range speakers as well as tweeters. The old console crossover limited the Zeniths to the lower frequencies. Since I don't use a crossover that restricts their frequency they not only play low but they play high as well. I was totally shocked to discover how well they cover the sonic spectrum. I suspect this might be the case with many of the big alnico drivers from the 1950's and early 1960's.

I've never tried the 8 inch alnico speakers that came in the Zenith console but I plan to do so. For whatever reason they have no Zenith markings and the markings they have are blacked out (?).
 
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