Outdoor Antenna Performace Calcs

Discussion in 'Tuners' started by Whitehall, Jan 20, 2006.

  1. Whitehall

    Whitehall Super Member

    Messages:
    2,157
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
    I think the RadioShack is also called an FM6.

    Noise from a very strong signal is likely from overload. It is not multipath. One way to fix it is an antennuator in the RF path to your tuner input.
     
  2. Vitopanch

    Vitopanch Super Member

    Messages:
    1,072
    Location:
    Asbury Park
    Joe,
    This is a great thread. I read yours too CarlV. Both provided excellent information. It so happens that I will be sprining for an outdoor FM antenna soon.
    Thanks,
    Vito

    P.S. I think that I am going for the APS 9, based upon the information. Most of the stations that I pick up have so much static that listening to them is irritatating.
     
  3. skiroe

    skiroe Yep, thats the offspring

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    northern Cali
    I have the Winegard 6065 and it works pretty good. I broke an element on it when I moved taking it down from previous roof.. Now I have a roof that only requires a 9' ladder to reach which tickles me as its so easy to go up there now. I had to make repeated calls to Winegard to get them to send me an element. Initially they said it would be easier to fix with a splint. I did that. A nice one too but because of where the crack was it wouldnt hold. They finally sent me 2 elements ,,which was nice. The person at Winegard had said it would be too hard to repair.. I wonder where he got that idea. It was easy.. I have a APS-13 packed in the garage that has very minor damage on a the very end of the cross member or boom. I wound up getting it for free because DSL damaged it slightly in shipping.. The seller was able to get his money from DSL and DSL wasnt interested in coming to look at it because it fell under a price point. I bought it for $150 including shipping. Which of course was a good deal. Im waiting till I move out of the area to install it on a tower. FM in my neck of the woods is to die for. (S.F. bay area):banana:
     
  4. outlawmws

    outlawmws On the Run

    Messages:
    4,779
    Location:
    The Badlands

    I'd sure like to know what stations you are listening to.

    To Die for? :wtf:
     
  5. Whitehall

    Whitehall Super Member

    Messages:
    2,157
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
    KKUP - Cupertino 91.5 "eclectic" very high quality signal path

    KPIG - Watsonville 107.5 - blues and lots of it

    KDFC - Sausalito - 102.1 - classical

    KFOG - SF 104.5 and Los Altos 97.7 - good ol' rock 'n roll

    KCSM - 91.1 San Mateo - jazz

    to name a few.......
     
    florida71 likes this.
  6. skiroe

    skiroe Yep, thats the offspring

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    northern Cali
    Not half bad considering.

    Ive been through a variety of music over the years and the only thing that doesnt do anything for me is rap. Currently, this list will reflect a more alternative sound.. But,, Im sure others can fill in for some of the ones I missed. Actually the bulk of my listening is college stations these days.

    KFJC 89.7
    KUSF 90.3
    KZSU 90.1
    KALX 90.7

    PACIFICA station KPFA 94.1 has excellent blues and jazz on saturdays.. real country on sunday.. excellent radio drama sunday nite. and other music programs.. excellent classical early sunday am..(6a)

    KCSM 91.1 full time jazz station.


    There are full time classical stations although I think they are commercial..
    All the stations I have listed here are non-commercial with dj's that are interested in the music they are playing and not trying to sell you something and sound like regular folk, not like late nite tv info mercials shills... You cant do much better than this considering the state of FM and the take over of the airwaves by coporate interests.. There are other pockets around the country Im sure... Pacifica has stations in NY and Texas and possibly others..

    Good listening,, :music:
     
  7. skiroe

    skiroe Yep, thats the offspring

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    northern Cali
    compared to the wasteland out there fm is alive and reasonably well in Bay Area

    Outlaw,,
    whats your taste in music? Do you appreciate a non-commercial format where the dj's sound like regular people and not appliance sales reps? I assume you are in bay area although to fully appreciate what is here you have to run a rooftop rotateable. OR, listen online. That would be no longer a analog signal but you could hear what the station is like. Then again,, have no idea what you like. KPFA can be tuned in without a rooftop and offers a fairly diversified range of music programs. Not as cutting edge as years ago. The first punk radio show in the bay area got started on KPFA,, Tim Yohanon(sorry, likely mis-spelled) started it and who is now deceased. Think it was called Maximum Rock and Roll. At any rate, KUSF & KFJC figure big in offering a lot in varied musical formats. KUSF carries a metal show late wee sat mornings---early early am.. like 3a. Im at work and will put it on occasionally. It all depends on what you want to hear.. Its out there.:guitar:
     
  8. outlawmws

    outlawmws On the Run

    Messages:
    4,779
    Location:
    The Badlands
    Most of my FM listening is in my car, and commercial rock stations, are what I listen to. I’m old enough to remember what FM used to be like around here, that is what prompted my comments. Clear Channel has really ruined a lot of good stations...

    I’m OK with some of the new Indie stuff (SWMBO is heavy into Indie bands), and the occasional recent top 40, but god so many of these top 40 bands sound the same no matter what song they are playing.

    An example, I just listened to my daughters blink 182 album, and I swear, 10 out of 14 songs sounded the same (God, I sound like my father!). Afterwards I had her listen to The Doors, LA Woman, to demonstrate how diversified a band can sound if they actually work at it. This exchange all came about from the other night when I had her listen to a particular Dire Straits (Where do you think you are going? -I think) and you could actually feel/hear the drums as though you were in front of them. She really liked that, and claimed later that one song on the Blink 182 album had a similar feel on her smaller system and wanted to hear it on the big setup. Hence the session to let her hear the album.

    I kinda got side tracked… In any case, I do listen to a wider variety of music than rock. The only music I consciously avoid is rap/hiphop. Damn few of those do I like at all. Classical, CW, pop, rock, indie occasionally Blues or Jazz, even the big bands or the crooners aren’t bad to listen to sometimes. I even have a growing collection of early 78’s both victrola and electric recordings. I would probably listen to non rock more, but I’m in the minority around here willing to give the other types of music a listen, baring SWMBO likes classical sometimes. (Funny, the rest of the family accuses me of being stuck on oldies rock, when they freak if I bring out anything else… You should have seen the rolling eyes when I fired up a victrola the first time)

    Thanks (To both of you) for the lists, I’m actually trying to find them, but without an external antenna, it looks hard for the small college stations.

    I actually have a new antenna I picked up last year from RS, and have a rotor to use, once I get off my ass and get it put up and the wire run (the larger hassle, I have a two story, so getting it put up high is pretty easy, running wire is not).

    I'll do some poking around and see what I can get.
     
  9. skiroe

    skiroe Yep, thats the offspring

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    northern Cali
    get that RS up there

    The rooftop rotateable makes such a difference that you wont believe it. IMHO It was never really made a point of how much difference there is re/indoor vs. outdoor antenna. The college stations will especially be revealed with a sonic presence that rivals top 40 mega power stations.

    A very different dynamic also will be appreciated concerning how the college, non-commercial stations conduct themselves on the air. The 'we have something to sell you' attitude will be absent from the playing format on college stations.

    The type of music being played on the college stations is very decidedly non top 40 in many respects.

    When you install that rooftop you will discover a very different FM out there. Maybe not to die for. I get a little carried away sometimes. My gf said that doesnt sound like me using that expression. But , I guess Im just a fan of this type of radio and it seems to have a vibe of freewheelin 60's underground radio on some level.

    Im listening to KUSF which is out of SF right now. This is affliated with USF I think. Its a mixed format.. Playing some Tom Waits right now.. which is not exactly underground.. He's relatively well known.. But, this dj is mixin it up and I dont have to listen to any commercials.
    The station I listen to the most is KFJC out of Los Altos Hill community college.. They've added a little more Jazz to their airtime. The dj is playing a lot of free form jazz right now.. which I dont really care for .. Lot of squalling.. so I tuned in KUSF 90.3 which required a bit of antenna rotation to even get it in.

    AT any rate.. all these stations have varied formats.. KPFA out of Berkeley 94.1 can likely be picked up without a rooftop as it has more power. You might check their schedule online to see if there are any programs that appeal to you.. But,, in the meantime get in touch with what helps you get motivated and install that rooftop.. If you require any suggestions Im more than happy to help out and can talk by phone if you need to.. Just send me an email.. I know you will be amazed at the results of the rooftop..

    Although,, the other aspect that counts some is the tuner.. But for the most part..,,,it doesnt matter what tuner one uses.. The antenna is paramount in achieving decent performance no matter what tuner is used. Thats a bit of a sweeping, general statement. It can matter ultimately when one is going for near perfection in sound, selectivity/sensitivity etc.. But, for just getting started purposes.. the rooftop is going to take most any basic tuner and help it bring in stations it never could receive or recieve very poorly with a dipole.

    Once one realizes just how performance is improved w/rooftop then one can decide whether or not to upgrade on the tuner deal.. But,, thats a whole another topic..

    This is the other aspect , In my experience anyway, of tuner performance that is not talked about in the info from a dealer or manufacturer of tuners.. They always make a point of rattling off specs but it doesnt seem like the makers or sellers really emphasize the difference one will experience when using an indoor (dipole or such) versus an outdoor rooftop. I just dont think they are adamant about the difference in performance. I've been listening to FM in the bay area since about 69 and only installed a rooftop about 5 yrs. ago. I just was not aware of what a big difference it could make. Maybe I was oblivious. I suspect I first became more aware from reading about it antennas online.. on now>>>. :grnbounce A bit of Lou Reed ,, White Light,,sounds like a live recording not a studio album.. :zoom:
     
  10. Whitehall

    Whitehall Super Member

    Messages:
    2,157
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
  11. RxDx

    RxDx Speaker collector Subscriber

    Messages:
    882
    Location:
    Virginia, the colonies
    Antenna comparisons

    I've put together a list here of antennas available in the US that I think qualify for good FM reception.

    These include combination VHF/FM and VHF/UHF/FM antennas, too, since OTA television (digital, mainly) is becoming more popular. I use a Philips/Magnavox MANT901 (the older, 51 element piece, not the newer 43 element). Mounted on a rotor on the roof, it does an excellent job. Stark and Lowe's both sell this as a Philips SDV7700K/17 now.

    There are mileage and signal strength ratings listed, but I think they're only good for comparison, not actual performance. I'm positive this is true for the antenna I'm using.

    Numbers are listed as VHF/FM/UHF ratings.
     
  12. Whitehall

    Whitehall Super Member

    Messages:
    2,157
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
    The Winegard HD6065 has been discontinued with a shorter 8 element replacement, the HD6055 for about the same money.
     
  13. RxDx

    RxDx Speaker collector Subscriber

    Messages:
    882
    Location:
    Virginia, the colonies
    Noted. The replacement won't be listed, as it's easily outclassed on the list. The 6055 is good for about 40-50 miles.
     
  14. Yamaha B-2

    Yamaha B-2 registered user

    Messages:
    8,317
    Location:
    NJ Shore
    There are few HD6065s hanging around, but not many. You have to check with the various sellers when you google HD6065. Most will list it as replaced, but a few have told me they will no longer ship, either.

    On another point, do not use a signal amp until you tried about everything else first. They amplify the noise just as much as the signal. If you are using splitters, then replace them with switches (under $10). Splitters 'split' the signal so only half is available on each output. Or, if a 3-way splitter, only 1/3 on each output. The loses through a switch are only about 0.3db, or less, to each output.
     
  15. centralflori

    centralflori Super Member

    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Orlando
    What is the best omni directional (saucer) type of antenna? Is the Winegard ms2000 good if you are in the sticks about 40 to 50 miles from tv stations?
     
  16. Whitehall

    Whitehall Super Member

    Messages:
    2,157
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
    FM would require a saucer about 8 feet in diameter due to its longer wavelenght.

    Saucers are used for higher frequency signals like those broadcast from satellites.
     
  17. Having lived through a plethora of Fm antennas from the Finco 4m & 5 and Winegard 6065 and numerous omni's. I have found the one and only absolutely the best FM only antenna, that is the Antenna Specialists APS-13. Case closed period, end of story.

    I live within 15 air miles of the Empire State bldg on Long Island NY. With more multipath than Chicago, Detroit and San Fran combined. I am also on the take off and landing glide path to JFK airport. Yet I can pick up strong signals from the north= Connecticut, Mass.--- From the south, philly, New jersey.

    This antenna, while expensive to some has yet to be beaten! I wished I lived in a place where I could double it up and mount it on a 50ft tower!!!

    With its very narrow lobes it almost acts like the "sniper rifle" of antennas.

    This is one antenna that I will be taking with me when I move to Colorado!
     
  18. Tullman

    Tullman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    565
    I have an APS-13 as well and it made my FM listening experience very enjoyable. I get at least 120 stations clearly.
     
  19. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights" Subscriber

    Messages:
    35,190
    Location:
    Fort Dodge, Iowa
    Hmm..I have a 50' tower..:scratch2:
     
  20. EscapeVelo

    EscapeVelo Charleston, SC

    Messages:
    439
    Location:
    Charleston SC
    Hello again, I have been working on a new guide to FM & HD Radio (IBOC) antennas. Its just starting out and little basic but the intent is to gather information available on the web and to help direct newbies in the right direction, if nothing else. I plan on doing extensive testing in the future, as well.

    EV's Best Top Rated FM and HD Radio Antenna Guide & Reviews

    Im also trying to collect information and a directory of FM antennas that have been discontinued, vintage FM antennas, and designs, etc.

    Anybody know where Id most likely find a Finco FM 4G or FM 5 for sale?

    Thanks! Hope you like the guide.
     

Share This Page