Package is stuck in China. Now what?

...So I take it I can't say 'it works now, but I can't guarantee that it will work when it gets to your house'? I mean, how else can you explain that 50 year old cameras sometimes stop working after long transglobal shipping? I wish I knew the right words to use to explain. Seems like it's a trap for the seller no matter what. If I don't say it works, people ask "does it work?" If I say it works, now it has to work no matter what?...

Well, the seller shouldn't be able to screw the buyer either, right? So if a seller has an item that he knows doesn't work, and in the listing says: "Works perfectly!", and then when the buyer gets it and it doesn't work, all the seller has to do is say: "Well, it worked fine when I shipped it.", and that's it? Go pound sand?

If the seller says it works, and the buyer paid for one that works, then the buyer has a right to one that works. If it was damaged in transit, then it's an insurance claim situation. If there's no obvious shipping damage at all, then what will probably happen is that the buyer will return it for a refund, which is the only fair resolution.

...And how long of a window does he have? The sale took place on November 11th, it's been six weeks, all in all.

You have 45 days from the day the listing ended. As of midnight tomorrow he's done.
 
Well, the seller shouldn't be able to screw the buyer either, right? So if a seller has an item that he knows doesn't work, and in the listing says: "Works perfectly!", and then when the buyer gets it and it doesn't work, all the seller has to do is say: "Well, it worked fine when I shipped it.", and that's it? Go pound sand?

If the seller says it works, and the buyer paid for one that works, then the buyer has a right to one that works. If it was damaged in transit, then it's an insurance claim situation. If there's no obvious shipping damage at all, then what will probably happen is that the buyer will return it for a refund, which is the only fair resolution.

You have 45 days from the day the listing ended. As of midnight tomorrow he's done.

Yeah, I see your point. However, I learned my lesson a long time ago with 'works perfectly', which was totally the wrong thing to say - nothing is perfect. I just said "This camera is functional. The viewfinder is clear, the rangefinder patch is visible and responds to focus tab movement as it should. Shutter speeds and aperture appear to be correct, although I do not have any way to verify accuracy. There is no built-in light meter in this camera, so no battery. The winding mechanism is on the bottom of the camera and is wound by the action of the left forefinger as the camera is held; it folds down to use and back when not in use. The camera back removes entirely to load and unload film. The camera body has some minor paint loss around the black painted metal trim, please refer to photos. The frame counter does not appear to work, unless there is some trick to resetting it that I am not aware of. It currently reads '36'."

So, out of curiosity, what SHOULD I have said, for future reference? Should I say it does not work, when I know it does? Should I refuse to state whether it works or not? I'm just curious as to how I can possibly describe the camera (or other item) accurately and not have it turned around and used against me later.

I really do my best to honestly and completely describe whatever it is I'm selling, and I'm not in the business of selling - this is my old camera collection that I'm slowly liquidating. I had my share of disappointments when I was buying them; many times they were described as working and were not, but it was frankly too much trouble to take the seller to task for such inexpensive items, and I generally fixed them up myself or used the parts for another camera. I don't want to misrepresent anything; but I admit total defeat here - it seems I cannot honestly describe what I am selling without giving any buyer clear leverage to get a refund, or to negotiate a 'discount' after-the-fact (which appears to be becoming a common tactic, FYI). I just want to do the right thing but not be ripped off myself.

Frankly, if I had the money, I'd send it to him right now, and he could keep the bloody cameras; he's clearly after something and he's determined to stick it to me somehow. I'd give him his money back just to shut his pie hole if I possibly could right now.
 
Sincerely, ebay/PayPal do (does?) a pretty good job of balancing between buyer and seller with the ebay Buyer Protection Policy and the PayPal Seller Protection Policy. Bitching and ranting from a lot of members notwithstanding. They can't possibly cover every conceivable possible combination of scammer and wingnut out there. But they try, because they're not stupid and they fully understand they need both buyers and sellers in order to survive.

As to your question, the best possible strategy is to say the minimum. If you start using words like "minty", or "museum quality", or, even worse, "perfect", then you're just setting yourself up. You're absolutely on the right track: "All functions work properly. The item does not have significant cosmetic issues. Please look closely at the photos. I have done my best to make them well lit and well focused so you can clearly see the item. If you have any questions please ask." You get the picture.

You want to make sure you get the best possible price, so you don't want to badmouth your own item, but you don't want to, in the buyer's eyes, over promise and under deliver.

I would also suggest putting something like the following statement down in your "fine print": "I do NOT, under any circumstances whatsoever, give partial refunds. You know who you are. Don't even bother." This is for the scammers who get the item, find fingerprints, dust motes, etc., and want you to knock $50 off the price. **** 'em. Trust me, ebay is fully aware of such clowns and WILL tell them to pound sand.

As far as your auction(s), if you've still got your money, another 36 hours and you're home free.
 
As far as your auction(s), if you've still got your money, another 36 hours and you're home free.

Last chapter in this saga (I think). I went to my open cases today and it says that the user is no longer a registered user. I don't know if they canceled their eBay account or if eBay cancelled it for them, but his account apparently is closed. So I guess that's it.

Thanks for all the excellent advice!
 
Glad it all worked out!

Me too! Now I have to turn my attention to another auction. A woofer I sold which the buyer says has several splits in the cone. Well, it didn't when it left my house and I packed it to survive anything. Sigh. He left a message on my voice mail and called me Wiggy. Hmmm. That's not my eBay name. Oh well, different issue, so I'll drop that in this thread.
 
Hey, Bill, sorry I didn't see this last night. You've essentially received all the advice and suggestions you need, but I'll toss in one piece of too-late advice, separate from what you're learning about selling internationally. Andy mentioned that selling internationally isn't the problem, selling to assholes is the problem, and you replied that you can't tell who the assholes are. Actually, you can. This is where you went astray:



At this point you simply contact ebay, tell them the buyer is flat refusing to pay the agreed upon shipping charges, you want to cancel the sale, and you want a refund of your fees. They would have done it without question. Worst case scenario you simply refuse to ship to the asshole and eat the fees. The cameras would still be on your kitchen table.

As everyone has stressed, you MUST be fully and cooperatively engaged with ebay throughout this process. At this point I would call them and talk to a live person. Every time I've done this it's been great. Explain that you'll be happy to refund the purchase price as soon as you get your items back, otherwise, since the USPS shows the item has been delivered, you have fulfilled your obligations. Additionally, since the buyer was uncooperative from the beginning, you have doubts about the truth of his statements that he does not have the items, since the USPS tracking shows them as delivered, and the China PO says they no longer have them.

Keep us posted, bud.

This is excellent advice. I had a Korean buyer try to the same deal. Won the auction and then proceeded to tell me that I was charging to much for shipping and he would only pay half of what was quoted. It was a heavy amp so is wasn't a small sum. Just called a halt to the deal and even if he would of payed I would have refunded the payment. You don't put up with weasels that are overseas it will only give you grief.
 
This thread was interesting to follow. Now, with all due respect to Andy, block those foreigners. I once had a 400.00 buyer from France. With a negative 3 rating. I don't need the stress.
 
Ricoh Five-One-Nine and Mamiya Super-Deluxe. The Super-Deluxe had a frozen shutter, which I stated, and the Ricoh worked, at least it did when I shipped it.

I love those Ricoh's. I've restored at least a dozen by now. No lights seals to piss with but the leaf shutter may indeed be stuck. He could do this himself if he has any skill.
 
I love those Ricoh's. I've restored at least a dozen by now. No lights seals to piss with but the leaf shutter may indeed be stuck. He could do this himself if he has any skill.

Well, he is apparently longer a registered eBay member, so I guess he's on his own now. I'm just glad this nightmare is over. No more international sales.
 
Glad this one worked out for the best. Just a bump in the road it seems. I might loose out on money by not selling outside the USA. But not having to worry about what or when is priceless!



Barney
 
If you don't send outside the U.S., fine! If you are willing to send to one foreign country, make it Canada! Sending stuff abroad is not hard, but honesty with
paperwork is a must. Good luck, sincerely hope it gets resolved.
 
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