PayPal doesn’t protect the seller when the item is picked up

[KingBubba]

Face to face cash transactions don't do well in Central Florida. The news are always reporting people who were robbed, shot or killed doing cash CL transaction. Local police and fire companies are making their parking lots available for these type of transaction with particular areas under multiple camera screening. Cash transactions are just plain dangerous these days.

 

[BilboBaggins]

I do cash transactions of over $1000 about twice a year on average. When I’m buying, I want to go to his house. That way I know where they live. If it needs power to use, I test it. Unless I’m buying at assuming broken prices. Then I’m perfectly fine meeting for a car transaction at some safe visible location.

I did call off a sale once because the guy insisted I take possession of it right away, oh, and he was dropping it off. At 2 AM! It didn’t feel right.

Another time, I did do just that, and it was a straight trade. An Apple eMac and an iPod for a Nikon digital slr. My gut told me go ahead, and it was a good transaction. We were just both awake at that time and the timing was better than any other. Fastest deal I have ever done. I think he was more nervous than I, but after we talked it over on the phone, there was just travel time.

 

[Archguy]

So, you do those kind of risks often where you live, or is it just rhetorical?
Cause frankly, I have not seen many thousand dollars record or CD collections offered for sale in the dangerous parts of DC ...

Or expensive high-end componentry, and when there is, it's likely stolen. One guy I bought (non-audio valuables) from on eBay made me nervous so I looked him up and his FB page was full of fanatic Anti-American raving along with photos of him posing with his collection of firearms. The stuff he was selling was really a bit unlikely for him ever to have owned. Of course eBay doesn't let you know their identity until after the deal is already done.

Paypal sucks.

I too dislike being at their mercy so I hope someone will dare to compete with them. Effectively I mean.

 

[JamVal]

I sold a turntable (craigslist) for cash this evening. The buyer didn't want to come to my house for an audition, said he trusted me, although we've never met. He suggested we meet in the parking lot of an Immediate Care Center about 2 minutes from my house.

Perfect, if I got mugged it would only be a few steps for medical attention. The buyer came out in scrubs, turns out he works there.

 

[MannyE]

Sorry, just haven't seen that kind of need locally. My $800 Integra HT Processor came off AudioGon MANY years ago - PayPal. The Heaths I bought and reworked this spring were $1200 from eBay - PayPal. The Jolida 501CRC amp was $800 from Bartertown couple years ago - PayPal ... Lots of purchases in the $500-1000 range. But I guess I simply don't buy and sell as often as you do, and I've not had any big risks.

Call it an avoidance policy if you like, but I have not been ripped off by taking stupid risks. I call it common sense.

There used to be a british show on TV called Hustle - the basic theme was- You can't cheat an honest man.
Most folks get scammed when they go after a deal thats simply too good to be true - and then (sadly) find out that it was.

And - I don't live IN DC. As my profile shows, I'm in VA near DC. Actually, I'm about 30-40 minutes away, depending on where in DC, and the time of day. But with CL and similar media, the metro area covers a pretty BIG area ...

There's no problem with regular paypal for the buyer. It's Paypal "friends and family" that's the issue. Sellers will ask for that to avoid the 3% (or whatever it is) charge. I usually say that I will make up the 3% to get the protections it affords the buyer.

 

[MannyE]

I too dislike being at their mercy so I hope someone will dare to compete with them. Effectively I mean.

Venmo

 

[soundmotor]

Perhaps some sellers here know this fact already, but it finally happened to me. I listed two vintage chairs on CL about a month ago. The next day I get a call from a northern MN area code. The buyer said she wanted them and would be coming to the Twin Cities the next day to visit relatives and would come by to get them over that weekend. We agreed to close the deal right away through a PayPal payment. I sent her an invoice and it was paid for asap. A day and a half later she sent her teenage “nephew and son” to pick them up.


All was good until yesterday, almost 6 weeks later, when PayPal notifies me that the seller filed a claim for an unauthorized purchase. I called PP right away to learn that the seller’s financial institution charged back the sale because the buyer’s credit card info was stolen. And was also told that PP doesn’t protect a seller when an item is picked up (it’s in the fine print, of course!). It kind of makes sense to me but it still stinks.


I’m not out a huge chunk of change, I have reasons to believe that this the buyer is actually scamming the system and has pulled the same trick on perhaps many others. I gave PP some additional info to back up my beliefs.

Textbook paypal scam and there is really no way to counter it. F&F payment yields the same result if a stolen CC claimed. One way around all this is only allow the person named on the paypal account to pick items up and only if you can take a pic of their license showing same name. You then have physical proof that the actual buyer showed up in person.

This is a big issue for both paypal and ebay. They allow in-person pick-up with this open loophole for fraud. Why not implement a unique code generated at the time of sale for the buyer to provide the seller as proof of pickup? If the seller has that number, checked before releasing the item, there would be no way for a fraud claim to arise later. What would that take, 10 lines of code?

I'm a USPS money order fan for anything of high $$$ & off ebay as an aside.

 

[sixthday]

Remember, if you do the EBay with Pickup, Ebay wont protect you either.

 

[SoCal Sam]

And we wonder why ebay is falling further behind Amazon every day. Next time I call ebay, this will be a topic of conversation. How to document local pick to the satisfaction of ebay.

 

[SoCal Sam]

Textbook paypal scam and there is really no way to counter it. F&F payment yields the same result if a stolen CC claimed. One way around all this is only allow the person named on the paypal account to pick items up and only if you can take a pic of their license showing same name. You then have physical proof that the actual buyer showed up in person.

This is a big issue for both paypal and ebay. They allow in-person pick-up with this open loophole for fraud. Why not implement a unique code generated at the time of sale for the buyer to provide the seller as proof of pickup? If the seller has that number, checked before releasing the item, there would be no way for a fraud claim to arise later. What would that take, 10 lines of code?

I'm a USPS money order fan for anything of high $$$ & off ebay as an aside.

Ebay does not want the buyer and seller to meet in person. The transaction becomes cash for convenience and ebay is out their 20%. They are policing the messaging system to catch sellers.

 

[soundmotor]

Ebay does not want the buyer and seller to meet in person. The transaction becomes cash for convenience and ebay is out their 20%. They are policing the messaging system to catch sellers.

Local pickup is an ebay option though so meeting and paying cash is already on the table. The seller can paypal refund the buyer on the spot and accept their cash.

/i've heard...

My comment on a code is that it would be generated by ebay, not the seller .The seller would not release the item until the code is given to them by the buyer and entered into the transaction by the seller like a USPS tracking number. Ebay then has verification that the pickup took place. A code provides chain of custody for the item.

 

[EngineerNate]

Ebay does not want the buyer and seller to meet in person. The transaction becomes cash for convenience and ebay is out their 20%. They are policing the messaging system to catch sellers.

IF the sale goes through on eBay, I think even if they pay cash eBay will charge you for the transaction.

As a funny side story, I bought a barbecue off of craigslist. Met the guy in front of a local grocery store, he told me, "I'm in the white impala." I pull up, and the only impala in the lot is a police car, so I very nervously pull up. He gets out, pops the trunk, and pulls out the barbecue as I walk up. I was wondering if BBQ was some sort of craigslist slang for something illegal and I'd fallen into a sting by mistake.

White impala... how about, "I'll be in the police cruiser."

He ended up giving it to me for free AND the donut place next to the grocery store brought us both free donuts while we were sitting there chatting so I guess I can't complain too much.

 

[soundmotor]

He ended up giving it to me for free AND the donut place next to the grocery store brought us both free donuts while we were sitting there chatting so I guess I can't complain too much.

I've bought & sold many items from both police and state troopers here in MA. They tend to be comicly normal.

 

[EngineerNate]

I've bought & sold many items from both police and state troopers here in MA. They tend to be comicly normal.

My family's worst experience with a police officer was with a MA state trooper in a Boston suburb. We'd driven there all the way from California in my dad's shiny new truck, which hadn't even gotten plates yet (California gives you a window sticker registration/license until the plates get mailed to you, and at the time there was quite a backlog). He pulled us over for not having plates. We told him, "This is how California does it" and pointed to the sticker, he then kept us waiting for a good half hour while he, "Called the CHP", then made us REMOVE the window sticker so he could inspect it (You can read everything you need from it through the glass...), told us that, "I've never been to California, I never want to go to California, but in Massachusetts you need a license plate, and every Trooper you pass while you're here is going to pull you over and tell you the same thing." and then finally let us go because he realized he didn't have anything legitimate against us, a good 45 minutes after he first pulled us over.

We counted MA state troopers the rest of the duration of our visit... we got up past 10 before we got tired of commenting to each other how we miraculously weren't getting pulled over. We think he was just bored that day and felt like taking his boredom out on someone, and that unfortunately that someone was us.

 

[electronjohn]

Perhaps some sellers here know this fact already, but it finally happened to me. I listed two vintage chairs on CL about a month ago. The next day I get a call from a northern MN area code. The buyer said she wanted them and would be coming to the Twin Cities the next day to visit relatives and would come by to get them over that weekend. We agreed to close the deal right away through a PayPal payment. I sent her an invoice and it was paid for asap. A day and a half later she sent her teenage “nephew and son” to pick them up.


All was good until yesterday, almost 6 weeks later, when PayPal notifies me that the seller filed a claim for an unauthorized purchase. I called PP right away to learn that the seller’s financial institution charged back the sale because the buyer’s credit card info was stolen. And was also told that PP doesn’t protect a seller when an item is picked up (it’s in the fine print, of course!). It kind of makes sense to me but it still stinks.


I’m not out a huge chunk of change, I have reasons to believe that this the buyer is actually scamming the system and has pulled the same trick on perhaps many others. I gave PP some additional info to back up my beliefs.


I will answer questions if anyone wants to inquire or comment.


The moral here is CASH ONLY.

Do you still have that phone number? Might want to pass it along to the po-leece.

 

[soundmotor]

My family's worst experience with a police officer was with a MA state trooper in a Boston suburb. We'd driven there all the way from California in my dad's shiny new truck, which hadn't even gotten plates yet (California gives you a window sticker registration/license until the plates get mailed to you, and at the time there was quite a backlog). He pulled us over for not having plates. and pointed to the sticker, he then kept us waiting for a good half hour while he, "Called the CHP", then made us REMOVE the window sticker so he could inspect it (You can read everything you need from it through the glass...), told us that, "I've never been to California, I never want to go to California, but in Massachusetts you need a license plate, and every Trooper you pass while you're here is going to pull you over and tell you the same thing." and then finally let us go because he realized he didn't have anything legitimate against us, a good 45 minutes after he first pulled us over.

We counted MA state troopers the rest of the duration of our visit... we got up past 10 before we got tired of commenting to each other how we miraculously weren't getting pulled over. We think he was just bored that day and felt like taking his boredom out on someone, and that unfortunately that someone was us.

I've heard the following over the years from other police as well as a few troopers. For any traffic stop not involving speeding, obvious DUI, or driving to endanger, you are in a discretionary bubble for the first ~30 seconds. How it proceeds from there is based entirely on the occupant(s) of the vehicle. Were I a wagering type I'd put my money on We told him, "This is how California does it" as the dialog fail.

 

[EngineerNate]

The actual wording would have been more like, "We drove here from California, we just bought the truck, and that sticker in the window (points) is what they give you. You don't get a plate for a couple of months and we left the state two weeks after purchasing the truck."

Giving a direct and honest answer to his query shouldn't be considered a fail by any metric.

In any case, he had no legal grounds to hold us as soon as the 100% legal documentation was indicated, so his behavior is on him. I was 15 at the time and my dad isn't one to be rude to an officer, so scrutinizing my word choice in storytelling nearly 15 years later doesn't get him off the hook. He was an ass from the moment he walked up to the car and continued to be so throughout the exchange.

Maybe he just didn't like California. That is a thing here in the East.

Most other cops I've personally dealt with have been rather pleasant aside from the whole costing me money thing, so I'm not trying to satisfy a grudge with this story. My solitary bad cop story just happened to be in MA.

Now that we're well and truly off topic-has anyone used any of the other money transfer services for Craigslist purchases or sales? Square? Venmo? Google Pay? How'd it go?

 

[usedto]

....and ebay is out their 20%.

How come you pay 20%?

 

[Wildcat]

There is no way in hell i'm going to pay f&f for something I buy on the internet.

Agreed! On another forum I am part of, we set up our rules for on-site sales where we do not allow F&F for any transactions. We also state that we do not get involved in resolving problems. Bad deals are very few but, when they happen, there is no recourse for a buyer that got screwed out of their money when they used F&F. (It's been a while, but I think we even discouraged sales using money orders.) We also tell sellers to build it into the price of what they are selling--nothing annoys me more than sellers who ask us to pay 3% to cover the PayPal fees. Just build it into the selling price, like we did for over a dozen years. Even if someone insists I send money F&F anywhere else, I will pay the extra fee myself, so that they net the amount they are asking for. I'm keeping my protections, thank you.

 

[Wildcat]

Ebay does not want the buyer and seller to meet in person. The transaction becomes cash for convenience and ebay is out their 20%. They are policing the messaging system to catch sellers.

I bought a power amp that way--the seller had it listed on eBay, I wanted to buy it, so we agreed I would pick it up at his house, so he cancelled his eBay listing and saved the money. I still paid through PayPal though. Probably can't do this anymore--pretty sad that they are now monitoring messages so closely. Many sellers are happy to do a local sale for cash.