Philips 312 Tonearm Twisting Movement

[garends]

Hello everyone,

I recently bought a used Philips 312 used on CL for $60. I am thoroughly enjoying the sound it makes through my Pioneer SX-750 and Elac B6s.

One concern is the tonearm and headshell seems to have a bit of rotational movement that is noticeable especially when pulling the tonearm out of the tonearm holder. Is this the tonearm bearings gone bad? Do I need a new tonearm assembly?

Also, Any cartridge recommendations? Currently I think it has an AT-11e, but I haven't pulled it off to see what it is for sure.

 

[NoTransistors]

Determine whether it is from the support stem or the bearings, or even the glue between arm tube and rear arm assembly. This arm has knife bearings. Someone here will let you know if they are adjustable. With so much play, one might be broken. There is always an arm or two on ebay for cheap, if needed.
Great-sounding turntable. I own a GA-212 fitted with a Shure V15III and it does sound good.

 

[garends]

Determine whether it is from the support stem or the bearings, or even the glue between arm tube and rear arm assembly. This arm has knife bearings. Someone here will let you know if they are adjustable. With so much play, one might be broken. There is always an arm or two on ebay for cheap, if needed.
Great-sounding turntable. I own a GA-212 fitted with a Shure V15III and it does sound good.

The play is coming from where the arm tube meets the rear assembly. To try to illustrate, the whole arm including the headshell can rotate from a vertical 12pm to 12:30 and back to 12pm.

I am thinking of finding a 312 arm or 212 replacement arm

Thanks again.

 

[NoTransistors]

While I have had my GA-212 for a very long time, I have never taken it apart. So, we still need to get the perspective of an AK'er who has done so.

 

[garends]

Did a bit more investigating behind the tonearm pivot. I found some old glue where the tonearm spindle is moving/rotating. Not sure if this is the problem.

 

[NoTransistors]

Well, you need to take a wild guess here. Is the play in the edge bearings, or in this blob of glue drying out. Funny, the arm of the Dual 1219 seems to be glued the same way. Same problem.

 

[Nat]

I hadn't realized that the bearings were knife edge - I assumed that they were just sloppy. But the round shaft does rest in a diamond shaped hole, so the shaft touches the plastic bearing only on two thin lines, so I guess that is sort of a knife edge. In play, of course the arm should be functionally quite rigid, just as knife edges are. And the top edges of the square hole will keep the arm in place even when handling it, which is reassuring.
The 212 was highly regarded in its day for the combination of good sound, convenience, and nice looks. The alternative was the AR table, which was potentially better (as long as the arm pivot pins were still exactly in the correct place (which, in tables that had been in use for a while, wasn't always the case - I saw many where the pins had unscrewed themselves, sometime to the point where the arm rested on the pivot block (not a good thing for the sound) and the headshell threads still existed), but was much, much less convenient. The separate and really too small and too tight dustcover, the weird overhang adjustment method and the tracking force setting system were real issues for the uninitiated.
The 212, on the other hand, was pretty straightforward and easy to set up and use (with the excepting of the ambiguity of where the tracking force weight was supposed to be when balancing the arm).

 

[garends]

I found this thread on Vinyl Engine where several members say that this kind of play is normal.

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20551

Does anyone else with a 212 or 312 have play in their tonearm?

Also, do you have glue behind your pivot point where the tonearm meets the plastic ball? Thanks!

 

[olddude55]

One of my best friends had 312 back in the day. He bought it mainly because he liked the touch controls, but later on we found out that it was a pretty good turntable. Well thought of by the local audio store who's opinions mattered most to us.
And no, the store didn't sell Philips. Dual was their main line of turntables, but it was the kind of place where they were pretty honest. Fer instance...I wanted to buy a set of Boston Acoustics speakers, which they had just started selling, and they told me not to bother because the speaker I was looking at wasn't any better than the Advents I was using at the time. True story.
Of course, they're no longer in business.

 

[Balifly]

I found this thread on Vinyl Engine where several members say that this kind of play is normal.

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20551

Does anyone else with a 212 or 312 have play in their tonearm?

Also, do you have glue behind your pivot point where the tonearm meets the plastic ball? Thanks!

I have had the Philips GA 212 since new.

Yes, there is a little "play" in the tone arm since new.

Some users are not familiar with tone arm designs and often mistake "play" with worn bearing.

They like to tighten the "bearing" beyond the factory setting.

 

[garends]

Thank you Balifly and for everyone's input! It was driving me crazy, thinking that something was wrong with the TT.