Philips ga 212 vs Pioneer pl-15d II

[mltl]

Hello everyone,
I own a Philips ga 212 (w/ an at95e) and it plays records, although the auto-lift at the end of a record does not function and a couple of the button bulbs are burned out. I recently located a near immaculate Pioneer pl-15d II (w/ Shure m97xe i think) on CL and have been mulling over the idea of replacing my philips, which has proved a bit delicate in the past. From what I've read, the Pioneer is a reliable workhouse of a table, and seems to be of decent sound quality. My question is, would the Pioneer be a step down, near equivalent, or step up sonically from the Philips? Is my feeling that the Pioneer may last longer and be more reliable based in truth? I feel pretty confident that the Pioneer is a fine deal, so I'm mainly looking for advice to whether it would be an improvement in any way to the Philips. I am not super attached to the 212, but I am pretty satisfied with the sound it produced through my system and its certainly a unique table functionally. If it's useful, I have a Kenwood KRV-7030 receiver and Pioneer sp-bs22 bookshelf speakers.

Your insights are greatly appreciated!

 

[kirk57]

I had the 212 and a Pioneer PL10, which is the predecessor to pl-15d II. Sonically it's a wash. The Philips has the cool touch-sensitive lights. The problems with the Philips are common and fixable, if you are inclined to do such things.

I'd say keep the Philips.

 

[stratmel]

Welcome to AK mltl. Your 212 does not have the auto-lift function. IIRC, it was first introduced on the Philips 312.
I'm still using my 212 I've had since new. With standard belt and bulb maintenance it can be very reliable

Enjoy the music,
-Mark

 

[BilboBaggins]

Agree with above. Any philips table I've tried sounds better than the pl15s I've had. I've had the 202, 212, 312, and still have a working 312 and 427. If you can find an adc Xlm or qlm cartridge/stylus it sounds great with that combo.

Btw, it has a removable cartridge sled. You pull it out from the front. If you order a spare, you can switch cartridges around very easily.

 

[mltl]

Thanks for your responses. When I bought the turntable 3 years ago, it had an adc qlm (i think - it was gold) cartridge, but was in need of a new stylus. I could only find a cheap replacement stylus at the time, but the cantilever came bent, so instead of risking another one, I decided to go with the at95. I think I still have the adc somewhere, I'll have to dig around. Does anyone know of an online dealer of quality adc styli?

Agree with above. Any philips table I've tried sounds better than the pl15s I've had. I've had the 202, 212, 312, and still have a working 312 and 427. If you can find an adc Xlm or qlm cartridge/stylus it sounds great with that combo.

Btw, it has a removable cartridge sled. You pull it out from the front. If you order a spare, you can switch cartridges around very easily.

 

[mltl]

Concerning the auto-lift, I meant to say auto-stop, which to my understanding, is due to a burned out bulb internally? Its not a real annoyance, but I do like the idea of not rushing over to lift the needle all the time. The ga 212 does have auto-stop, right?

Something I forgot to add: There is a Philips af-829 on CL as well, that is only $25. Seller says cosmetic wear only, pictures show some oxidation(?) of metal accents and sides of the platter and some scuffing. They do not seem very knowledgeable about turntables- estate sale of sorts. Would this be worth picking up? If fully functional, would it be a noticeable improvement over the older Ga 212? If it works, the stop/lift function would be useful to me.

Thanks

 

[BilboBaggins]

I did some quick research on this. Not sure if you would end up with a better table. It looks like the fr-829 may be a more modern, technically more complicated unit using more plastics. Best thing to do is to go there and try it. Many people say something works fine and you get it and it is broken or missing some critical part. Better would be to get that Led fixed for the auto stop. It isn't quite as elegant as auto stop and lift up, but it works, and the 212 is a really nice table when working.

 

[Blue Shadow]

The AF line replaced the GA tables and that AF-829, I'd be all over it. Headshell is specific for those turntables, though so it needs to have one with it. Although it is a plastic table, the unit was nice when new. Cosmetics, not a problem if it works right.

The Pioneer is as you say a workhorse. The Philips GA is sort of the poor man's Thorens with the floating suspension. Better for a light tracking cartridge (high compliance cartridge for low mass arm) compared to the medium mass arm of the Pioneer.

 

[Bobsblkwax]

I would definitely keep the 212. I have several, and they sound amazingly good with the right high compliance cartridge. The Ortofon 2M Bronze really sounds terrific on it. I don't have any experience with the 829, but I'm not a big Pioneer turntable fan.

 

[mltl]

I would definitely keep the 212. I have several, and they sound amazingly good with the right high compliance cartridge. The Ortofon 2M Bronze really sounds terrific on it. I don't have any experience with the 829, but I'm not a big Pioneer turntable fan.

What about the Pioneer tables are you not a fan of?

 

[mltl]

I do have an adc cartridge somewhere, which came w/ the turntable when I bought it 3 years ago. I'll have to dig it up, but would you recommend that I switch it w/ the at95e that I'm currently running? The 95e is basically new. The adc dosn't have a stylus, so I'd have to locate one. THere's also an adc vlm nos on ebay for $75 right now, which might be a good option.. Any thoughts?

 

[Bobsblkwax]

What about the Pioneer tables are you not a fan of?

This is going back a long time, but I never heard one that I really liked. That includes store demos and hearing them at friends houses. I guess some of the belt drives may be OK, but I haven't heard all of them. Not a fan of direct drive. The Philips however just sings.

As long as your Philips still works well, I would suggest getting a better high compliance cartridge. I am using NOS Shure M91ED, and V15 III, as well as an Ortofon 2M Bronze. You could also use the older Ortofon OM 20, 30. Your AT may work well - I'm just not a fan of their sound in general.

The Pioneer has the edge on reliability though.

 

[BilboBaggins]

What about the Pioneer tables are you not a fan of?

I know you didn't ask me, but I'll tell you my thoughts regarding the two pioneer pl15ds I've had. I found they didn't sound as transparent or three dimensional as the philips does. I tried different cartridges with them and that was the case across the line. Yes, they are simpler and easy to maintain, but almost muddy sounding. I have had a few other pioneers and still have a pioneer pl-l1000, and that wasn't an issue with them.

No matter what turntable you get, you will have to invest in them. On maintenance, and any hidden or pending problems. Or you would have to spend some pretty good dollars on new just to get back to where you are right now. I recommend you download the owners guide and go through the 212 first before changing anything. Also, if you have some contact cleaner, pull out the sled, spray it into the headshell and on the contacts of the sled and push it in and pull it out a few times to clean the contacts. Careful, it is a tight fit!

 

[mltl]

Thanks for the detailed response. Muddy sounding is not my cup of tea. After reading your responses and listening to a few records tonight, I've decided to stick with the Philips. I'll definitely clean the headshell contacts. The headshell carriage on my philips doesn't fit all too tight, but tight enough I suppose. I found my old adc cartridge tonight, and will be searching for a replacement stylus. I do have a question about the cart - it does not have any labelling of which model it is (the body is gold metal). If I'm remembering correctly, the original stylus was a qlm, but given the stylus interchangeability between these "lm" models, I can't be sure the cartridge is the qlm. The cart says "ADC", and a serial number. Anyone know how to ID between the qlm, xlm, vlm etc. ?

Again thanks for your responses.

 

[ARJohn]

It's hard to get a good ADC stylus these days , I have bought some and not up to snuff ! I did spend $125 on a NOS stylus and it works fine . But I would look for a newer cart that you can still buy stylus for . I had a AT110E on my 312 and it sounded great but had the counter weight at the very end to balance it so might be a bit heavy . Grado's might be an option or another AT cart , I wonder is those Ortofon 2m's would fit on the Philips as they might be too high ? Try to find some bulbs right away , as once they blow the touch switch and the auto stop don't work , if I remember correctly .

 

[melofelo]

Something like an AT-110E would be a good match for the low mass tonearm fitted to the GA-212. Heavy cartridges can be balanced to a floating zero with some extra mass added to the counterweight ( bluetack) to keep it close to the pivot .