Phono on Yamaha RXV3900 = PAINFULL!!!

pas8

New Member
Hi guys,

Looking for a little help, or advice on what I should do, I like listening to Vinyl on classic solid state gear, but I don't have the room to have 2 separate systems in my lounge room where I do most of my listening, and the AV receiver has to stay, so the old Pioneer SA-508 and Marantz speakers get the flick.

Problem! Vinyl on the Yamaha RXV3900 sounds like I'm under water, it's flat, it lacks base, it lacks treble, it lacks everything I love about vinyl and amplifies everything I hate about it!

I have room for a preamp so tried running the SA-508 as a preamp via the Phones output on the front, but the Yamaha didn't like that, it sounded great! but the Yamaha cracked it and shut down into overload protection mode, so I'm guessing it was not a good idea to try?

so to re-cap
Looking for better sounding vinyl using a my Yamaha RXV3900, possibly preamp needed?

what would be the best solution for me?
 
Not sure about your 3900, but my 367 doesn't have a phono pre-amp, so that's an absolute necessity. Without a pre-amp and its RIAA equalization, even the best vinyl will sound like crapola.

I'm assuming you used the video aux jacks on the front, rather than the headphone jack? I hope? If so, you should be able to play just about any line-level source.
 
I use a RXV-1300 as a preamp in my system, but haven't ever tried the phono input. The way my system's set up the turntables aren't close enough for the cables to reach.
There are some fairly nice cheap phono preamps out there to choose from depending on your budget:
ART DJ Pre II
TCC TC-750 or TCC TC-750LC
Cambridge Audio Azur 540P
DB Systems DB-8

or if you want one that will handle MM and MC carts:
Musical Fidelity VLP-S
TCC TC-760LC
Cambridge Audio Azur 640P

I've owned the last two and they do a nice job for the cost, but all of the others have gotten good reviews here at AK too.

BTW, what's a SA-508?
 
Thanks for the help, looks like I need a decant preamp

This is an SA-508

pionee10.jpg
 
Maybe it just has something to do with the way you hooked things up? Did you try going from the pre-outs on the SA-508 (if it has pre-outs) to any of the line-ins on the back of the 3900? If you don't have pre-outs you could use tape-outs, but either way I would imagine you'd have to be careful with the volume control of the SA-508 or you'd have too much gain going into the 3900.
 
I like listening to Vinyl on classic solid state gear
What type of cartridge is yours, MM or MC?
…Vinyl on the Yamaha RXV3900… it's flat, it lacks base, it lacks treble, it lacks everything I love about vinyl and amplifies everything I hate about it!
Strange to hear… On Pioneer SA-508 it’s O.K., and on Yamaha, “everything I hate”…
The “Phono” terminals on your Yamaha RXV3900, are they for MM only, or switchable between MM and MC? And if two, have you connected your TT to the right terminals or switched to the right type?
 
I too have a great receiver with a crappy phono section. So I hooked up an outboard phono amp, and my troubles are over. For a great inexpensive one, look at the HypnoToad DIY phono amp in the Turntables section.
 
Are you making sure all the Yamaha digital enhancents are "off" and the mode is set to "straight" therefor bypassing the DSP's.
 
Hi,

I'm surprised the Yamaha's phono input sounds poor, usually they are not
great, but hardly ever next to unusable, whats the turntable / cartridge ?

Preamps start at $25 and go up from there, need matching to the source.

rgds, sreten.
 
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Turntable is a Pioneer PL-15R
Cart is a Audio-Technica AT15S

I ran it through Straight, Pure Direct, and the best sound I could get was from PLII Music, but it was over enhanced base, and volume had to be right up around -10 fro some room filling sound, and the 3900 doesn't like going up that high in my experience.
 
Turntable is a Pioneer PL-15R
Cart is a Audio-Technica AT15S

I ran it through Straight, Pure Direct, and the best sound I could get was from PLII Music, but it was over enhanced base, and volume had to be right up around -10 fro some room filling sound, and the 3900 doesn't like going up that high in my experience.

Something is wrong then. Your description makes it sound as though you've plugged the turntable into a different input than phono. This would result in:
A) flat, lifeless sound due to lack of RIAA EQ, and
B) very low output

...either that or there's a malfunction in the phono section itself.
 
Before building a hybrid HT/2-channel rig, I ran my TT (Technics SL1200mkII w/ Denon DL-160 HOMC) to my Yamaha RX-V1800 phono input.

It did an adequate job - not stellar but certainly not 'painful'. However, the gain levels were noticably lower compared to other source inputs such as CD, and required the volume to be turned up to -10 or higher, but not a big deal - not sure why a 3900 would not 'like it'.

Don't expect stellar 2-channel sound from any AVR as they are a 'swiss army knife' of features - doing alot, but none as good as dedicated components.

If the OP is set on keeping the AVR, then at least consider an external quality phono preamp.
 
Well there is only one phono input, and that's were the plugs are attached, I have had problems with this amp from day one, and eventually got a new one sent to me from yamaha, I haven't had a major problem since, but little annoying problems keep happening, like if I'm driving all my cerwin vega's watching a movie at around -20 (this is just silly loud) the amp will shut down into overload, and fair enough! if I'm listening to a record on PLII music at -10 I assume the amp is working just as hard?

I will invest in a proper phono preamp as it seems its the only solution
 
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Well there is only one phono input, and that's were the plugs are attached, I have had problems with this amp from day one, and eventually got a new one sent to me from yamaha, I haven't had a major problem since, but little annoying problems keep happening, like if I'm driving all my cerwin vega's watching a movie at around -20 (this is just silly loud) the amp will shut down into overload, and fair enough! if I'm listening to a record on PLII music at -10 I assume the amp is working just as hard?

I will invest in a proper phono preamp as it seems its the only solution

You may want to check the wiring of your speakers - just to make sure no stray strands are touching between the binding posts.

Also, what are the Cerwin Vega's rated as? 4-ohm or 8-ohm - you may have to check for that on the 3900 as well.

You can also check what your "Max volume" setting is - the X900 series have a setting in 5.0db increments - your avr may have been set to limit the max volume.

Just tossing out some ideas on things to check...good luck!
 
checked all those things already, apart from the max volume, but don't really understand how that can effect sound quality on Phono input and not any other input, thanks anyway ;)
 
checked all those things already, apart from the max volume, but don't really understand how that can effect sound quality on Phono input and not any other input, thanks anyway ;)

The things I suggested to check only address suspected problems/settings on your 3900 for it shutting down.

On my own upgrade journey, I came to realize that my AVR (and any AVR, imo) was holding back that step up in sound quality to the next level for 2-channel listening.

So, I put together a hybrid HT/2-channel setup by incorporating an integrated amp with HT Bypass. My TT and SACD player go directly to the Int Amp instead of the AVR for *much improved* sonics (imo).

But, I can still watch cable movies and bluray to get 5.1 and bass management for all the speakers and sub.

You may want to start thinking about either separate systems or building a hybrid.
 
I have room for a preamp so tried running the SA-508 as a preamp via the Phones output on the front, but the Yamaha didn't like that, it sounded great! but the Yamaha cracked it and shut down into overload protection mode, so I'm guessing it was not a good idea to try?
This had the real potential to kill both units...don't do it again.
Connect one of the SA-508's Tape out jacks to your front-panel input.
Yes, use the tape-out jack(s) of the 508 and feed them into some unused line-level input on the Yamaha.
Maybe it just has something to do with the way you hooked things up? Did you try going from the pre-outs on the SA-508 (if it has pre-outs) to any of the line-ins on the back of the 3900? If you don't have pre-outs you could use tape-outs, but either way I would imagine you'd have to be careful with the volume control of the SA-508 or you'd have too much gain going into the 3900.
If the tape out jacks of the 508 are used, the volume control of the 508 isn't in the signal chain.
 
I had a similar experience with my old RX-V995 I bought in 2000. I moved to an apartment and used it there because it has more inputs than my McIntosh C504. The Yammy basically went kaput, so I unpacked the Mac. The difference was almost like night & day. And the Mac boasts about the phono section consisting of just a couple of ICs. :dunno:
 
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