Pickering "original" V15 vs. P/AC-1: differences?

[beat_truck]

In Pickering nomenclature:

C = for record Changers (originally 3 - 7 gram tracking force)
T = for automatic Turntables (2 - 5 g tracking force)
M = for Manual turntables (1 - 3 g tracking force)

At some point the C styli were reduced to a 2 - 5 gram tracking force (same thing with the Stanton 500AL), when most record changers improved in design and no longer required such heavy tracking forces -- at least until the NP/AC cartridge was reintroduced in the early 2000s as a low-budget DJ cartridge with an extremely high 10 mV output; it then returned to the original 3-7g rating. (Same thing when it was rebranded as the Stanton 400.v3.)

The Pickering nomenclature doesn't mean a lot when talking about aftermarket styli.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

That is true, but when these cartridges were new, it was very important.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Most has been said already but the V15 had such a long run that they changed the angle of the mounting ears at one point. I have one of each.

This was done (along with the Pickering XV-15 range) and their Stanton siblings at the same time, due to changes in the record industry over vertical tracking angle in the late 1960's. The original proposed standard in 1964 was 15 degrees (hence the 15 designation in the model name). The standard changed to a nominal 20 degrees by somewhere around 1968-1969 and has remained constant ever since.

 

[vwestlife]

Here were Pfanstiehl's generic replacement styli for Pickering and Stanton in 1989. Rather than the wide ranges of the original styli, they listed a specific recommended tracking force for each one. (For the styli that come with a brush, the value listed includes the brush compensation, so you don't need to add an extra gram.)

 

[vwestlife]

This was done (along with the Pickering XV-15 range) and their Stanton siblings at the same time, due to changes in the record industry over vertical tracking angle in the late 1960's. The original proposed standard in 1964 was 15 degrees (hence the 15 designation in the model name). The standard changed to a nominal 20 degrees by somewhere around 1968-1969 and has remained constant ever since.

According to this article, American and British record cutters standardized on 15 degrees, while the IEC in Switzerland wanted 20 degrees (+/- 5 degrees) to become the official standard, so most record cutters in Europe chose 18 degrees as a compromise:

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/vinyl-lp/37-technology/73-vertical-tracking-angle.html

And this article from 1981 says "Our dialogue with cutting engineers indicates that VTA currently varies between 16 and 22 degrees, depending on the lathe system":

https://www.gcaudio.com/images/uploads/VTA_article.pdf

 

[tubeactive]

This thread began and grew with an assumption that the V-15, P/AC, NP/PAC, Stanton 500, 400 et al bodies were the same. While they were the same size and could interchange stylus assemblies, there really were a few varieties of differing internal coils.

The high output NP/AC, P/AC and P/AT types have their usual 400 to 440 Ohms per coil for each channel. Then, there are many varieties which measure 600-750 Ohms per coil, including some Stanton 500s and the famous, mid to late -'60s, V-15 blue bodies. There are also some varieties which read 800-900 Ohms per coil, including some Stanton 500s. Lastly, there are a few varieties which measure over 900 and up to 1200 Ohms per coil, including the Stanton 581 Calibration Standard.

Having owned, used and still owning way too many V15s and 500s, in my experiences, the higher the coil's resistance indicates the more high frequency detail, the brighter the upper highs seem. Some of the 1200 Ohm coil versions are often difficult to sound "sweet" like most V15s, unless certain styli are used and/or associated equipment is synergistically matched.

Like the earlier '60s, Pickering Stanton 380 family, with the chicken head stylus assemblies, the Calibration Standard #381 has the highest coil resistance readings and is tough to make its' sound cuddly, so is the situation with the Stanton 581 and other 1200 Ohm per coil V-15s.

One of the early posts in this thread mentions their V-15 and P/AC sound the same. My guess is the coil DCResistances of his two versions were similar.

Also, there are some cool, recent threads in AK concerning the various types of styli available when Pickering/Stanton made them...Be on the lookout for those nude mounted diamond tips in certain stylus assemblies...

One last note, important for 78 spinners. The original, factory blue styli used a .0027" nude conical stylus. The aftermarket 78 styli, including recent Swiss sourced styli, use a 3 mil conical, bonded tip.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

According to this article, American and British record cutters standardized on 15 degrees, while the IEC in Switzerland wanted 20 degrees (+/- 5 degrees) to become the official standard, so most record cutters in Europe chose 18 degrees as a compromise:

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/vinyl-lp/37-technology/73-vertical-tracking-angle.html

And this article from 1981 says "Our dialogue with cutting engineers indicates that VTA currently varies between 16 and 22 degrees, depending on the lathe system":

https://www.gcaudio.com/images/uploads/VTA_article.pdf

18 degrees nominal is most standard, in this industry, thanks to the Neumann SX 68 disc cutting system to the end of the Neumann lathes. The most commonly used lathe and cutting head and electronics in the recording industry by far.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

. Doesn't it seem that there are more Genuine V-15 and XV-15 Pickering Stylus around than Genuine Stanton 500 and 680/681,.... and lower priced too?

Pickering for years, was marketed much more to consumers and audio speciality shops. Stanton put much more of it's marketing efforts on broadcasting, the recording industry, other professional markets, universities and institutions, archivists, libraries, etc. Likely why Pickering cousins are so much more common, as Pickering was available from many more dealers.

 

[Empireman]

Pickering for years, was marketed much more to consumers and audio speciality shops. Stanton put much more of it's marketing efforts on broadcasting, the recording industry, other professional markets, universities and institutions, archivists, libraries, etc. Likely why Pickering cousins are so much more common, as Pickering was available from many more dealers.

Thanks KentTeffeteller. I am amazed at the seemingly LOW amount/HIGH $$$$ vintage NOS Shure Stylus, but the moderate amount /decent prices of NOS Pickering stylus available today.

 

[Rich K.]

Currently running my AT6 with the V15 cartridge and a conical stylus, through the Heathkit AR-29 tuner/amp my dad built in 1974, with a pair of Toshiba 30-watt 6 ohm speakers salvaged from a defunct home theater system (don't have room for bigger speakers, unfortunately). Put a virgin record (Harry Chapin, last lear's pressing, from a Barnes & Noble store) on it and to my 48 year old ears, it sounds great!