I am using a vintage Marantz TT-2000 turntable with a Pickering xv-15 cartridge. Before you ask, yes it came that way, yes I got it for free. I was wondering if anyone would volunteer any information about this cartridge or turntable as I have limited knowledge of them and cant seem to find much definitive information on them, although I do have the manual/ original receipt for the turntable. Once again, any information/advice would be helpful.
Pickering XV-15
- Thread starter Dirkjr
- Start date
1) Vinyl Engine has all sorts of cartridge info.
2) When not covered in white paint, it's called a Stanton 680.
2) When not covered in white paint, it's called a Stanton 680.
ETI_5000
Super Member
The Pickering XV-15 was around for a very long time, since the late 60’s, and as Sam said, is identical to the Stanton 680/681 in its body – there were many variants, each with different styli. It is a moving iron cartridge, and the best variants were Pickering’s best for some time (late 60’s to mid-70’s) until the XSV-3000 moving magnet cartridge took over the crown. A moving iron cartridge uses a light piece of moving iron, attached to the opposite end of the cantilever from the stylus tip, to vary the magnetic field from a large fixed magnet, and so produce a voltage in the coils of wire in the body.
There are quite a number of styli that fit the body, with tracking weights ranging from ¾ to 5 grams – the better they are, the larger the number, ranging from the best 1800S stereohedron (roughly similar to the Stanton 681EEE-S) and the nude elliptical 1200E (similar to the 681EEE). In general, the more expensive the stylus, the better. The more expensive variants, which are more compliant and have lower tracking weights, will work best with your tonearm, which has a fairly light effective mass. You can find more info on the XV-15 here http://www.vinylengine.com/library/pickering/xv-15.shtml , and there’s a 1974 review of several XV-15 models, including the best elliptical XV-15 1200E here http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=36172 .
The turntable was probably made by a Japanese original equipment manufacturer for Marantz – possibly CEC, who made many Marantz (and other brand) turntables. It is a direct drive, and was Marantz’ cheapest direct drive from the early 1980’s, costing AUD$220, according to my 1981 Stereo Buyer’s Guide. That placed it squarely in the most contested part of the market, with many competitors such as the Akai AP-D40 ($229), Dual CS-505MkI ($229), Technics SL-D2 ($210) or SL-D3 ($225), or the Pioneer PL-300 ($249). It was superior to the lowest priced turntables, which cost about $120-150 at the time, and would have been a common upgrade turntable for people wishing to move up a level or two from the cheapest models. I'd expect it to be a competent turntable that should give years of reliable service.
There are quite a number of styli that fit the body, with tracking weights ranging from ¾ to 5 grams – the better they are, the larger the number, ranging from the best 1800S stereohedron (roughly similar to the Stanton 681EEE-S) and the nude elliptical 1200E (similar to the 681EEE). In general, the more expensive the stylus, the better. The more expensive variants, which are more compliant and have lower tracking weights, will work best with your tonearm, which has a fairly light effective mass. You can find more info on the XV-15 here http://www.vinylengine.com/library/pickering/xv-15.shtml , and there’s a 1974 review of several XV-15 models, including the best elliptical XV-15 1200E here http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=36172 .
The turntable was probably made by a Japanese original equipment manufacturer for Marantz – possibly CEC, who made many Marantz (and other brand) turntables. It is a direct drive, and was Marantz’ cheapest direct drive from the early 1980’s, costing AUD$220, according to my 1981 Stereo Buyer’s Guide. That placed it squarely in the most contested part of the market, with many competitors such as the Akai AP-D40 ($229), Dual CS-505MkI ($229), Technics SL-D2 ($210) or SL-D3 ($225), or the Pioneer PL-300 ($249). It was superior to the lowest priced turntables, which cost about $120-150 at the time, and would have been a common upgrade turntable for people wishing to move up a level or two from the cheapest models. I'd expect it to be a competent turntable that should give years of reliable service.
beatcomber
AK Member
Do a forum search for "Stanton 681" and you'll get lots of info. The 681 is identical to your Pickering.
Also, while the plastic carrier assembly and brush look very different between the Stanton and Pickering cartridges, they're interchangeable.
sKiZo
Hates received: 92644 43.20°N 85.50°W
Xv15 625e
Yes - it's GOLD!
All of which brings to mind the question ... which is better, an OEM Pickering stylus ($80) or something like the ones sold by LPGear ($35)?
Reason I ask - it IS a unique design cartridge, and I also see that the cantilever on the newer styli is quite a bit smaller. Better materials, newer composites, blah blah ... I could care less - it's all about the SOUND, and I've always been a fan of this particular cartridge's tonal strength. Never had any complaints about trackability either.
Anybody ever run a test head to head on new vs old? I'm a big fan of saving money where I can, but I'm not much for "settling" because it's cheaper.
Yes - it's GOLD!
All of which brings to mind the question ... which is better, an OEM Pickering stylus ($80) or something like the ones sold by LPGear ($35)?
Reason I ask - it IS a unique design cartridge, and I also see that the cantilever on the newer styli is quite a bit smaller. Better materials, newer composites, blah blah ... I could care less - it's all about the SOUND, and I've always been a fan of this particular cartridge's tonal strength. Never had any complaints about trackability either.
Anybody ever run a test head to head on new vs old? I'm a big fan of saving money where I can, but I'm not much for "settling" because it's cheaper.
sKiZo
Hates received: 92644 43.20°N 85.50°W
Been doing some research - wasn't aware that all the styli were interchangeable.
If the LPGear is any good, was also pondering upgrading to the D1200 stylus, but it might be overkill for my table. That's listed for transcription turntables and tracks a whole bunch lighter than the D625. Same price as the OEM D625 ... They also have the D750 clone in the middle of the range.
(I'd be interested in what Pickering had in mind with the whole "transcription table" thing. Seems to me they haven't built those since the '30s to play 16" disks ...)
Just to confuse the issue ... JACO makes a shibata tip (D4555Q) that fits and is supposed to be an excellent upgrade. Hmmmmmm ... I do have a lot of quad disks laying about. I've got an Audio Technica AT15S that I usually use for that, but I recently replaced that with (you guessed it) an LPGear shibata that I'm not all that happy with.
Hence the dilemma ...
Just reread this post and now I'm kinda sorta leaning towards the JACO shibata for the XV15 ... kill a couple birds with one stone maybe?
Might help to know my tables ... Primary is a Mitsubishi DP-EC10 direct drive and my backup is a Technics SL-23A servo belt. I usually run around a gram tracking force, and the D1200 is listed for 3/4 - 1 1/2 grams, so that's definitely in play ...
If the LPGear is any good, was also pondering upgrading to the D1200 stylus, but it might be overkill for my table. That's listed for transcription turntables and tracks a whole bunch lighter than the D625. Same price as the OEM D625 ... They also have the D750 clone in the middle of the range.
(I'd be interested in what Pickering had in mind with the whole "transcription table" thing. Seems to me they haven't built those since the '30s to play 16" disks ...)
Just to confuse the issue ... JACO makes a shibata tip (D4555Q) that fits and is supposed to be an excellent upgrade. Hmmmmmm ... I do have a lot of quad disks laying about. I've got an Audio Technica AT15S that I usually use for that, but I recently replaced that with (you guessed it) an LPGear shibata that I'm not all that happy with.
Hence the dilemma ...
Just reread this post and now I'm kinda sorta leaning towards the JACO shibata for the XV15 ... kill a couple birds with one stone maybe?
Might help to know my tables ... Primary is a Mitsubishi DP-EC10 direct drive and my backup is a Technics SL-23A servo belt. I usually run around a gram tracking force, and the D1200 is listed for 3/4 - 1 1/2 grams, so that's definitely in play ...
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boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
The original Pickering D1200E is a .2 x .7 mil elliptical and the D625E is a .3 x .7 mil elliptical. That's the primary difference. Both track at pretty similar weights, .75 to 1.5g for the D625E and .50 to 1.25g for the D1200E (plus 1g for the brush). There is a D625DJ that tracks at 1.0 to 4.0g. (I don't think it even has a brush.) Maybe that's what you had in mind.
John
ETI_5000
Super Member
Pickering used to try and simplify things by saying which types of turntables cartridges were suitable for. You wouldn’t necessarily put a top of the line cartridge on a cheap BSR or Garrard automatic record changer, which is more what Pickering were trying to guard against with their advice. Their use of the term “transcription” really dated back to earlier eras. However, it’s not really relevant these days – most turntables with tonearms which have adjustable counterweights, and oil-damped cueing, will be suitable for their best cartridges, and the replacement styli for them.
Both of your turntables will be suitable for all of the XV-15 styli available, right up to the top of the line elliptical, the D1200E. There was a later, even better stylus, the stereohedron (Pickering’s name for their version of the Shibata) D1800S, which took over from the D1200E as Pickering’s best XV-15 stylus. The ones to look at buying include the D625E or D750E, which are 0.3x0.7 ellipticals, or the D1200E, which is a thinner (better) 0.2x0.7 elliptical, or best of all, the D1800S stereohedron (or aftermarket Shibata replacement). They are the only ones you should buy, although there are also some cheaper models which fit, but in the words of Pickering, really aren’t suitable for your turntables (they deserve better).
You need to be very careful about buying them from either Jico or LPGear, not because they don’t sell good styli, but with the Pickering models, they get confused between Pickering’s XSV/XUV series, which are moving magnet cartridges, and their XV-15 models, which are moving iron models. I suspect the reason LPGear have it wrong is that they’ve copied Jico – or maybe it’s the other way around!
Other styli, including the model you quoted (D4555Q) are NOT suitable for the XV-15 cartridge, and reflect Jico/LPGear’s confusion between Pickering’s MM and MI cartridge models. They don’t know what they are doing! MM styli won’t work properly in your MI cartridge, so just ignore their list of models that are suitable for the XV-15 – many are not.
The following styli fit Pickering's MM cartridge models, and NOT the XV-15: D4500Q, D3000, D4555Q and XV15/4500AME (oh, goodness – I know there’s a language barrier, but all they’re doing is confusing people with models that have NEVER existed).:screwy: So ignore all of those ones, which according to Jico, fit the XV-15 – they don’t, as they fit Pickering’s XSV/XUV/LZS cartridges, which are MM models. They also even get the (MI) V15 models in there, which are quite different from the later XV-15 models they confuse them with – grrrr!:bash:
beatcomber
AK Member
FWIW, I visited the Louis Armstrong House Museum last summer, and Satchmo spun his records on a Dual 1019 with a Pickering XV-15.
So, if the Pickering is good enough for the King of Jazz, it's good enough for you!
So, if the Pickering is good enough for the King of Jazz, it's good enough for you!
silvernutsaq
Visiting Martian
I have two original XV-15 stylus, a PDO7-C and PDO7-T. Anyone know about either of these? I know one came with a Pioneer PL-630 TT.
ETI_5000
Super Member
The PD07T and PD07C are for the Pickering NP/AC and NP/AT cartridges, which are versions of their V15 cartridge, not the XV-15. Different cartridge. The V15 is an earlier design, and is the Pickering version of Stanton’s 400 and 500 cartridges.
The PDO7-C is a 0.7mil conical stylus and has a tracking weight of 3-7g, while the PD07-T is also a 0.7mil conical, with a tracking weight of 2-5g. They are designed more for BSR and Garrard record changers than hi-fi turntables – ruggedness was the main criteria. More info can be found here on those cartridges and styli http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridg...chi=&stid=&masslo=&masshi=¬es=&prlo=&prhi= .
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
I couldn't really come up with anything useful about these so here's some pure guesswork. I think these may actually be for a member of the V-15 family instead of the XV-15 but, as with all the other guesses, I'm just going by the number. (A photo might help.)
The Pickering PDE stylus is an elliptical V-15 type stylus. "PDE" probably stands for "Pickering Diamond Elliptical". If we go on that assumption, the "PD07" part of those numbers would stand for "Pickering diamond 0.7 mil" (conical). If I recall, the letter "C" is often used to denote styli intended for changers and the letter "T" for single play styli. ("T" probably stands for transcription.)
So, if this is right, these are both 0.7 mil conicals for a V-15 cartridge, one for use on changers and one for use on single play decks. The difference would be in compliance and recommended VTF with the "C" being less compliant and needing more VTF.
John
beatcomber
AK Member
The PD07 is for the Pickering NP series (ie: NP/AC) and can be used with a Stanton 400 or 500.
silvernutsaq
Visiting Martian
Thanks for that info guys. I guess it was a V-15 cart on one of them and the other is unmarked, but it does look like a Stanton 500 body. I have a XV-15 on a Dual 1019 already and thought these might plug into it, but apparently not? I`ll just get a better one when the time comes for it. I`ve also got a 680, 681, and 81S (stereohedron).
I suppose these PDO7s would make good testing styli for a 500, which has given good listening results in the past. I had heard years ago that the 500 was very popular with many FM stations playing album-oriented rock. I`ve tested the 500 against a Shure M70, M75, and M91ED and it bettered the first two and came close to the 91 in listening characteristics.
I suppose these PDO7s would make good testing styli for a 500, which has given good listening results in the past. I had heard years ago that the 500 was very popular with many FM stations playing album-oriented rock. I`ve tested the 500 against a Shure M70, M75, and M91ED and it bettered the first two and came close to the 91 in listening characteristics.
flavio81
Turntable technician
And sounds pretty musical, punchy and enjoyable, despite the top end not being too refined.
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
That's my impression of the 5107AL which, I suppose, is the Stanton equivalent to the PD07-T. Pretty bullet-proof stylus too.
John
