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Pioneer Capacitors

Discussion in 'Pioneer Audio' started by SargentRicko, May 25, 2016.

  1. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

    Messages:
    21,894
    Location:
    Glen Burnie Md.
    RCTM; As this is a SX-780 specific thread, you would be best served by starting your own thread. Besides, it's considered threadjacking, Poor form.
     

     

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  2. USMC Spike

    USMC Spike Active Member

    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    Tejas, North Central
    How do you know that Larry?
    I wonder what the unit is smokin'?
    Smokin' in the boys room perhaps?
    For recreational purposes only?
    Prescription?

    I have fond memories of Irish Pennants.

    Once a "boot" it sticks with ya.
    Made OCS fun, cause I never had issues,
    but I still worked for it all for my buds who did.

    It was actually kinda nice at OCS
    after having been a boot...when our
    barracks was decimated after inspections
    you can imagine my surprise at seeing everything
    overturned except three things, my footlocker,
    my stand up locker, and my rack all intact, even
    the lower bunkies mattress and fart sack was tossed
    about...mine just stood there and gleamed among the chaos.
    Of course, that didn't stop me from pitching in and helping
    the rest of the company out in fixin' up their gear and
    putting everything together again quickly. I conducted
    some quick training classes about what to do and
    how to make it Marine Corps tight! We did good
    at Quantico as we tightened everything up so
    tightly that during the second round of follow
    up inspections we just got our own time
    to work on anything or just chilled out
    while we heard the tornado's happening
    in the other four companies, and we
    were all thankful that we didn't have
    to spend the rest of the day and
    night trying to get everything
    all squared away and tight
    again.

    Thanks,

    Spike
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    merlynski, larryderouin and Pio1980 like this.
  3. USMC Spike

    USMC Spike Active Member

    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    Tejas, North Central
    SargentRicko, Caution when replacing Ceramic Disc capacitors on tuner boards and in HF tuning circuits.
    It's quite possible these were specifically used and designed with this circuit in mind.
    Many times these capacitors were specified very carefully so that they would have the
    same thermal characteristic changes when warning up and cooling down, so that
    the transistors and resistors in the circuits would all change together and it would
    keep the circuit properly tuned. Hang on to those caps just in case you need
    them. I hope you marked them or noted where in the circuit you took them out.

    Hopefully you dodged a bullet on this. Maybe you'll only be
    the 2nd on this match. We all know about the third on a match,
    and that is never good.

    Good luck,

    Spike
     
  4. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

    Messages:
    21,894
    Location:
    Glen Burnie Md.
    Spike;

    I'm one of the Evil, Mean, Wicked, Nasty bastards, who among other things, lost your shot records, held public short arm inspections on COLD Mornings in front of the W.M. Barracks (to much giggling from the WM barracks), gave out UNWARMED WYCILLIAN SHOT's for the clap (non-specific foot problems) lined ya'all up nut to butt for Sick call, and generally gave you a poor outlook of the Medical Corps.:confused::naughty:o_O:jump: Just Kidding. Grandpa was a SSGT in the 1st M.A.W. Guadalcanal. Us grandkids called him Grandpa Jarhead. (Honest to CHESTY!) (This was back in the late 50's before he died in 1959).

    Yep! I was a FMF/ SS HM back in the Mid-Late 70's. I really liked Subs, but after 2 patrols I got sent to HM Submarine Medical School (18 months). I learned more in 6 months on 2 patrols on the boat than that whole 18 months. FMF School at the time was 10 weeks @ Pendleton. We didn't have to bounce quarters off the sheets, they just had to be wrinkle free. Uniforms were a different matter. I thought at the time heavy starch in whites was like cardboard. Have them done on a Marine base and they come back as stiff as 3/8" Plywood. Khaki's were the same. Everyone walked around like they all had telephone poles inserted rectally as they didn't want to have a wrinkle in the khaki's or whites for inspection. For the 1st two weeks everyone had rashes from the starch around their necks and upper arms from short sleeves. About the only other thing I remember about it was CARDIAC Hill. It was like Mt..Curahee in Band of "Brothers" only with packs and spare weapons for the 0311's in our platoon's we were atached to for training in the field. I went from "A" School to T.I., 6 months later to FMF School, then back to T.I. for the remainder of 2 years. I was detailed to the Security Co. / Brig HM. Lotsa Fun. Especially when the Co. went to Alameda Range and I shot 1 less than a perfect score (240 sounds about right for a possible) on the .45 qual course and pissed off the Capt and the Gunny as only 2 Marines shot Master and barely made that. I couldn't get the medal or ribbon, so I shot for practice, as I hadn't shot a 45 since I was in Jr. High and the qual course @ Pendleton (shot 236). I still shot in the high 230's as a Federal L.E.O. and used a .45 vs. a M-92 before I retired. After a PCS change I went to Subscol, and then to a boomer in Charleston. Once I finished the patrols, and Submarine Medical School, I had a year left, so I asked for Pearl Harbor. I ended up in San Diego @ Ballast Point on the Tender. Finished up and went home in 1979. Had a great time with the Marines, although I wasn't even close to being able to run (bad knee), they didn't cut me any slack except when I had a cast on my leg for a couple of weeks @ FMF school. And then I was made a driver and the car / jeep I got detailed to was a stick shift. I think the Col's and the B.G. there had the only cars with Automatics. Full leg cast on the clutch leg. Got real good at shifting without using the clutch. Sat toward the center off the seat and shifted my hips to use the clutch on starting and stopping. Gunny thought it was hilarious. NONE of the "O" ganger's would ride in my car/jeep so gunny had his own personal driver for a few weeks.

    One night some of the platoon decided to go to San Diego to hit some bars. I was a designated driver. So sitting at the bar drinking a Coke (I was almost 19) and this nasty drunk Chief sits down next to me. Gunny is sitting on the stool on my other side. This chief is getting nastier the more he drank, and was getting beligerant to boot. All of a sudden I see this haymaker coming out of nowhere and I ducked, the haymaker hitting the Gunny above the eye cutting his eyebrow. FIGHT's ON!! 1/4 Marines (about 25) and 3/4 Carrier Sailors. Gunny tells me to sit on the bar and stay out of the fight, so I did. Eventually the S.P's show up and a Lt. comes up to me and asked me "What the Hell is going on here". "See that Chief laying right under my feet?" He threw a haymaker at me (bad drunk), missed me, and it hit the gunny hard enough that I'll have to sew up his eyebrow, and the fight was on". "Get'em outta here, Doc!" "Aye Aye SIR!. GUNNY! Saddle up! Get'em outta here". 30 Seconds later there wasn't a Marine in the Joint. The only injury was the Gunny's eyebrow. 3 stitches and he was good. Later heard the Chief was busted back 2 stripes and went to Alcohol counseling in the psych ward @ Balboa Hosp. Plus a bunch of Capt. Mast's for the rest of the sailors. Officially Gunny slipped in the shower. Had a couple of privates paint non-skid on the shower deck in the NCO bks.

    Moral of the Story?...................................don't F*#$ with the GUNNY or the DOC!
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    merlynski likes this.
  5. USMC Spike

    USMC Spike Active Member

    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    Tejas, North Central
    OH, Chit Larry I couldn't stop laughing....it hurts.

    I just happened by here and caught your comment to Rectum,
    "you would be best served." you really are a nice guy and
    you learned something useful being a squid.

    I won't comment on the "other" aspects of sea service, other
    then pity the poor bastard who thought he'd never get to meet
    Neptune when the boat crosses the International Date Line
    and why the Navy needed so many grease application device
    kits, complete w/extension fitting?

    I just know that any corpsman always got treated better attached
    to the Marines then they ever did in the Navy. Funny thing, we
    learned the difference between Aye Aye Sir, and Yes Sir.
    PFCs (poor f-ing civilians) never learned the subtleties.
    I'm sure you see it too in TV/Film... and thinking and
    saying along Aye Aye Sir and the actor blurts out
    a mile yes sir. ????????

    It's not quite as late here as there but my little 3-1/2
    year girl wants something to eat so she doesn't have
    to go back to bed and can hang out with her dad, Spike.
    I've got to enjoy this time while she still wants to hang,
    cause we all know it won't last long.

    Remind me to tell you my shot card story.

    Duty Calls,

    Spike
     
  6. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

    Messages:
    21,894
    Location:
    Glen Burnie Md.
    My 4 year old Grandson does the same thing when he visits Pop and G-Ma. I'll shoot you something that a Radioman friend of mine wrote a long time ago about dating and Daughters. I think you'll get a kick out of it. It's on my desktop where all the important things like DD-214's and awards are kept.
     

     

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  7. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

    Messages:
    21,894
    Location:
    Glen Burnie Md.
    Spike;
    To answer your original question. The SX-780 power packs (STK-0050) are highly susceptible to shorting transients. Which means using soldered spkr wire ends or soldered pins on the ends of the wire. Even a 1/2 second short will blow a pack. Especially the crap that is being sold today as STK-0050's. Sanyo stopped making them 20+years ago and no original stock is available. So any stock available are generic knockoff's which have undersized dies, and bias' that are all over the place. NOT a good replacement in most cases. Some dealers have better packs, and they back them. But they are all chinese made now. Luckily my SX-790 (black dial face 780) has the original packs and see's limited use. I plan to keep it until I get a Pine Peacoat (can't afford a Teak wood Peacoat). My Granddaughter or Grandson will inherit it.
     
  8. USMC Spike

    USMC Spike Active Member

    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    Tejas, North Central
    SargentRicko - By the way some nice work here.

    That is nice DOC Larry. Wow in this day some might think you have a Microsoft prefix
    to your name. Nice to know about the power packs if I come across and old SX-780 or SX-790.
    I'll have to go see what they look like?

    What do you call the Chief Medical Officer that is or would be in charge
    of a battlefield unit that's attached to the Marines? I'm looking back to
    the MEUs from the WWII era.

    -- Spike
     
  9. Oldsansui441

    Oldsansui441 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,771
    Location:
    Victoria, Australia
    Nice post SargentRicko, you have done a lot of work to put all that info into one thread, l am sure it will help a lot of others out :thumbsup:.
    All the best with your build.
     
  10. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

    Messages:
    21,894
    Location:
    Glen Burnie Md.
    SIR! With exceptional VIGOR! Senior Medical Officer or Whatever his actual rank is. Probably a LCDR or CDR at least. If they were stretched thin, a LT.
     
  11. AlgoPop

    AlgoPop New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Hi
    Thanks for your post on PIONEER CAPACITOR PART NUMBERS. I need to replace two capacitors in a Pioneer XC-L11 system -- part numbers CEAL470M35 and CEJQ470M25. From your note I get they are 47uF 35/25v and the CEA is Al Elec, not sure what the "L" is, and I don't what "JQ" signifies in CEJQ470M25.
    Is this something special. I'd be grateful for help.
    Thanks
     

     

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  12. markthefixer

    markthefixer On Hiatus, dealing with Dad's estate full time Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    CEAL470M35 (C5612)

    CEJQ470M25 (C5610, C5611, C5613-C5617)

    pictures needed of the caps in-situ, this is a newer unit, so the codes may not be in the tuning fork data. I couldn't find them and I LOOKED (and looked)!!


    If no further info is forthcoming, I would use a Nichicon UKL 47uf 35v cap for ALL, it is low leakage,
    so if it physically matches the originals, it is the best possible to pop in there just to be safe.

    I don't understand, are they bad? This unit is new enough that I wouldn't expect a recapping to make a discernible difference.

    hmmm... downloading the service manual......
    ah hah, they are in the FLAC assembly, and are parts of a high(er) voltage doubler type chain!! Fluorescent AC oscillator and "doublers" to "make" display voltages.

    Heck, that could just use Nichicon UPW caps... Using the UKL wouldn't hurt....

    I can assure you - NO program audio travels through THOSE caps.
     
  13. AlgoPop

    AlgoPop New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Hi,
    Thanks for looking into this! I found this on the internet, apparently taken from a Pioneer service supplement (?)

    PIONEER PRODUCT TYPE: AUDIO MODEL: XC-L11
    REPORTED SYMPTOM: CUTS OUT TO STANDBY IMMEDIATELY AT POWER ON (IN PROTECTION MODE).
    CURE: REPLACE C5610, C5611 AND C5612 ON THE FLAC (DISPLAY SUPPLY)

    Seems to match my symptoms. The capacitors are inside the metal "shield case" soldered to the board, so I can't get a photo until I take that off. I was hoping to get the capacitors first and then do the unsoldering/resoldering. Your suggestion looks good. I'll go for the overspecified capacitors.

    I'm very grateful for your help,
     
  14. markthefixer

    markthefixer On Hiatus, dealing with Dad's estate full time Subscriber

    Messages:
    21,122
    Location:
    Bensenville,Illinois
    Ok, with Pioneer putting out a bulletin, about failures, in this circuit (voltage step up with oscillator) I would DEFINITELY go to a 50v (UKL) capacitor!!

    original capacitors:
    c5610 47uf 25v JQ-TS dc blocking, ac pass through
    c5611 47uf 25v JQ-TS dc blocking, ac pass through
    c5612 47uf 35v AL-TS dc blocking ac pass through

    Examining the UKL caps, only the 25v caps are 6.3mm x 11mm with 2.5mm lead spacing, while the 35 and 50v caps are 8mm x 11.5mm with 3.5mm lead spacing. Since this is a newer unit (the database seems to lack data like the years it was sold) the cap space allocated may be tighter in that shield, thus the request for pictures.
    The cost is $0.43 for the 35v caps versus $0.51 for the 50v caps - literally pennies with NO size differential.

    The failures that Prompted Pioneer to put out the bulletin could only have been leakage based,
    since they do not pass enough energy through them to boil them dry (hey - caps heat up TOO!!) thus causing a loss of capacitance.

    So going to 50v is cheap insurance.

    647-UKL1H470MPDANA
    47uf 50v low leakage 105 degree C, low leakage UKL capacitor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
    merlynski likes this.
  15. AlgoPop

    AlgoPop New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Thanks again. I'm not going to have time to do this until later next week. I'll report back then.
     
  16. AlgoPop

    AlgoPop New Member

    Messages:
    4
    @markthefixer

    >> pictures needed of the caps in-situ,
    Yes, good advice! When I unsoldered the shield case I could see they are *low-profile*.

    CEAL470M35 (C5612) -- this is a 47uF 35v Elena capacitor
    CEJQ470M25 (C5610, C5611) -- these are 47uF 25v SRG capacitors

    The best match I could find is United Chemi-con (I went with 35v, the max voltage for 47uF in that range)
    661-EFL-350ELL470MH0 (@mouser)
    EFL-350ELL470MH07D

    I'm new to this and couldn't find a UK supplier, so went ahead with mouser (shipping charge 12 UKP + 20% Tax on shipping charge :-( ).

    Anyway, all is well now.

    Thanks again for your help.
     

     

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