harleyrider
Super Member
Ive been searching here for upgrades for my Pioneer CS 99As. Does anyone know any details about this type of upgrade ? Or can point me in the right direction ? Is it even worth doing ? Thanks any input is appreciated.
Pioneer CS 99a crossover upgrades
- Thread starter harleyrider
- Start date
nrenter
Active Member
I replaced all the caps in my CS-99a speakers. The downsides include 1) there are a lot of capacitive elements in the crossover, 2) the capacitive elements are "odd" sizes, which forces you to use multiple capacitors per capacitive element, which increases the capacitor count, and 3) if you use "boutique" caps it gets expensive fast.
This is shown in Cut-Throat's post over in the Speaker forum:
Finally, and I'm not sure why, but it seemed to take *FOREVER* for the sound of my new caps to quit changing. Granted I just had my SX-1250 restored, so there was a lot to "break in" at the same time (including my ears).
That being said, if you like your CS-99a speakers, then I think it's worth doing. IMHO, it will help bring out the best of your speakers.
This is shown in Cut-Throat's post over in the Speaker forum:
Finally, and I'm not sure why, but it seemed to take *FOREVER* for the sound of my new caps to quit changing. Granted I just had my SX-1250 restored, so there was a lot to "break in" at the same time (including my ears).
That being said, if you like your CS-99a speakers, then I think it's worth doing. IMHO, it will help bring out the best of your speakers.
Thanks for posting this!
What caps did you use? I was looking at using the 1% Dayton Metallized 1% Polypropylene caps. Which if I have not missed anything should run abt $41 per speaker. Where did you mount the additional board? Also any problems on removing the cabinet back? One post I read said that you had to remove the speakers and knock out the back do to some staples being used in assembly of the cabinet.
What caps did you use? I was looking at using the 1% Dayton Metallized 1% Polypropylene caps. Which if I have not missed anything should run abt $41 per speaker. Where did you mount the additional board? Also any problems on removing the cabinet back? One post I read said that you had to remove the speakers and knock out the back do to some staples being used in assembly of the cabinet.
nrenter
Active Member
What caps did I use? That's a great question, and one that I've often asked myself, but quite frankly, I've always been afraid to seek the answer. See, I bought these speakers and immediately turned them over to a tech to have them re-cap'ed. I've never opened them up to see what was put in there....until today.
And the answer....nothing special, nothing boutique.
And the answer....nothing special, nothing boutique.
nrenter
Active Member
Well...I just ordered a set of Dayton Precision 1% Metallized Polypropylene Capacitors to re-cap my crossovers. I'm interested in hearing the differences.
While checking out the current capacitor configurations, I noticed the values were created (IMHO) in very round-about ways - not simple parallel sets. This leads me to my questions...
Cost, physical space, and parts availability notwithstanding, what is the difference arriving at a capacitance value through parallel sets vs. serial sets? A 10 uF capacitor in series with another 10 uF capacitor will give you the same capacitance as a 2 uF capacitor paralleled with a 3 uF capacitor. Why would one choose one approach over another?
While checking out the current capacitor configurations, I noticed the values were created (IMHO) in very round-about ways - not simple parallel sets. This leads me to my questions...
Cost, physical space, and parts availability notwithstanding, what is the difference arriving at a capacitance value through parallel sets vs. serial sets? A 10 uF capacitor in series with another 10 uF capacitor will give you the same capacitance as a 2 uF capacitor paralleled with a 3 uF capacitor. Why would one choose one approach over another?
As you Stated "Cost, physical space, and parts availability" are the only things that would guide your selection. No advantage electrically of one over the other. I also ordered the same Dayton Precision 1% Metallized Polypropylene Capacitors as you did. We will have to compare results.:yes:
nrenter
Active Member
Here's what I ordered...Dayton Precision 1% Metallized Polypropylene Capacitors
- (2) 1.0uF + (2) 15uF = (2) 16uF
- (2) 2.0uF + (2) 12uF = (2) 14uF
- (4) 3.0uF + (4) 4.0uF = (4) 7uF
- (2) 4.7uF
- (2) 2.0uF
- (2) 1.0uF
nrenter
Active Member
Here's what I pulled out of each of my speakers...
1 uF (+- ?)
1 uF parallel 1uF = 2 uF (+- 10%)
4.7 uF (+- ?)
(10 uF series 10 uF) parallel 1 uf = 6uF (+- 10%)
33 uF series 33 uF = 16.5 uF (+- 20%)
33 uf series 22 uF = 13.2 uF (+- 20%)
I have no way to measure these to see how close they are to the values in the service manual.
And here's the crossover with the new Dayton capacitors...
I'm giving the new caps a few passes with my IsoTek System Enhancer CD before even giving them an initial listen. I'll report back in a few weeks on my final thoughts.
1 uF (+- ?)
1 uF parallel 1uF = 2 uF (+- 10%)
4.7 uF (+- ?)
(10 uF series 10 uF) parallel 1 uf = 6uF (+- 10%)
33 uF series 33 uF = 16.5 uF (+- 20%)
33 uf series 22 uF = 13.2 uF (+- 20%)
I have no way to measure these to see how close they are to the values in the service manual.
And here's the crossover with the new Dayton capacitors...
I'm giving the new caps a few passes with my IsoTek System Enhancer CD before even giving them an initial listen. I'll report back in a few weeks on my final thoughts.
nrenter
Active Member
Well...here's my impressions of the re-cap...
Immediately, there was a greater sense of space between the speakers. Other than noticing that attribute, I really haven't done any "critical listening" until last night and tonight. As I began to listen, I dialed-back much of the tone control settings that I had previously applied - no longer using the "loudness" switch, and the tone controls now set as follows: 50Hz @ +2.5 dB, 100Hz @ -2 dB, 10kHz @ 0 dB, 20kHz @ 0 dB.
Obviously, I feel the overall presentation is much more even. Which is (kind of) a strange observation and reaction, as the caps I replaced weren't old, and (I'm assuming) their values were within spec. But I have less of a desire to (try to) compensate for what the speakers are doing "wrong". I simply listen to (and appreciate) their perspective.
So...it is worth the effort and the $90 spent? If you have a physically beautiful pair, like what they're doing for you now, but want to get every last bit of performance from them...then yes, replacement w/ a "better" capacitor is worth it. It's really not that difficult to do. However, a re-cap isn't going to make them something they aren't. The low end is still lazy. They still behave as heavy "monitors" w/ 15" woofers. But they sure are cool and a lot of fun.
Immediately, there was a greater sense of space between the speakers. Other than noticing that attribute, I really haven't done any "critical listening" until last night and tonight. As I began to listen, I dialed-back much of the tone control settings that I had previously applied - no longer using the "loudness" switch, and the tone controls now set as follows: 50Hz @ +2.5 dB, 100Hz @ -2 dB, 10kHz @ 0 dB, 20kHz @ 0 dB.
Obviously, I feel the overall presentation is much more even. Which is (kind of) a strange observation and reaction, as the caps I replaced weren't old, and (I'm assuming) their values were within spec. But I have less of a desire to (try to) compensate for what the speakers are doing "wrong". I simply listen to (and appreciate) their perspective.
So...it is worth the effort and the $90 spent? If you have a physically beautiful pair, like what they're doing for you now, but want to get every last bit of performance from them...then yes, replacement w/ a "better" capacitor is worth it. It's really not that difficult to do. However, a re-cap isn't going to make them something they aren't. The low end is still lazy. They still behave as heavy "monitors" w/ 15" woofers. But they sure are cool and a lot of fun.
crhblack
Active Member
I just got a pair of these monsters for free :yippy: I am considering doing the crossover re-cap, but I think one of my horns is dead. I sprayed down the L-pads with some de-oxit spray and even changed the horn from one cabinet to the other with the same result. So, does anyone know a source for a compatible tweeter or even how to repair 
that alnico horn tweeter?
that alnico horn tweeter?
I just got a pair of these monsters for free :yippy: I am considering doing the crossover re-cap, but I think one of my horns is dead. I sprayed down the L-pads with some de-oxit spray and even changed the horn from one cabinet to the other with the same result. So, does anyone know a source for a compatible tweeter or even how to repair
Keep an eye on e-bay. I have seen a lot of various CS 99 speaker parts listed there.
krlill
Active Member
Here is a thread that might help: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245029
crhblack
Active Member
Just a quick update: I followed this thread and some cross-referenced threads and successfully repaired my tweeter! I want to thank you for the insights and free knowledge. Used tweeters for this model on auction run a fair penny. I can't complain since I received these for free!
I want to thank you for the insights and free knowledge. Used tweeters for this model on auction run a fair penny. I can't complain since I received these for free! 
turnitup
No, the stereo won’t break the crystal...Oh CRAP!
I know that this post has been "parked" for awhile, but wanted to get an opinion on if it matters in using caps that are rated 250VDC versus caps rated at 400VDC for my CS-99A's?
Also does it matter if you use different caps (brands and VDC ratings) for the low and high-end? I'm thinking about using a +/- 5% 400VDC metalized polypropylene cap for the low-end and +/- 1% 250VDC metalized polypropylene cap for the mids and tweeters (where I hear it definitely makes a difference). Just trying to conserve a little cash... The 1%'s are about 2X the cost. Opinions???
THANKS!
Also does it matter if you use different caps (brands and VDC ratings) for the low and high-end? I'm thinking about using a +/- 5% 400VDC metalized polypropylene cap for the low-end and +/- 1% 250VDC metalized polypropylene cap for the mids and tweeters (where I hear it definitely makes a difference). Just trying to conserve a little cash... The 1%'s are about 2X the cost. Opinions???
THANKS!
