Pioneer CT-F9191 problem

Discussion in 'Pioneer Audio' started by STR-6046A, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. STR-6046A

    STR-6046A Member

    Messages:
    78
    Hello I have a Pioneer CT-F9191 with the tape not forwarding/ reversing. when on play it will turn a few seconds and then shut off. (the right reel doesn't spin)

    I have replaced all belts and sent the clutch to be rebuild by Mark. He said the clutch was fin no cracks but he said he upgraded it anyway.
    I noticed that the spring holding the clutch arm is a bit stretchy, but I am not sure that is the issue or just part of it.
     
  2. markthefixer

    markthefixer On Hiatus, dealing with Dad's estate full time Subscriber

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    There are tires that drive the take up reel, not belts.
    There are two belts (2) off the take up reel, the first goes from the take up reel to the tape movement sensor
    the second goes from another pulley on the tape movement sensor to the tape counter.
    The tape counter has a switch that hits at 0000, and if certain things are set up, it will cause a stop.
    all the above is for play

    for ff/rew, there is the rubber tire on the end of the ff/rew motor shaft that can get worn as well.
    Then the clutch is not driven. Does the motor spin in ff and in the opposite direction on rewind?

    check to make sure the take up reel hub can spin freely and is not dragging.

    check all this out and document where it is different on yours.
     
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  3. STR-6046A

    STR-6046A Member

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    How do I check that the reel hub is not dragging?
     
  4. llwhtt

    llwhtt Super Member

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    Don't the FF/RWD motors crap out on those decks? They have no torque when they get old.

    Craig
     
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  5. STR-6046A

    STR-6046A Member

    Messages:
    78
    this one has torque. What I did notice though is that if I apply more tension on the arm, the forward backward will work, sort of. Either the adjusting spring doesn't have enough tension or the tire of the forward motor is worn, (don't think so)
     

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    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  6. llwhtt

    llwhtt Super Member

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    The last one I worked would RR or FWD about half the tape, getting slower and slower then just stop. Maybe you'll get lucky. There are threads about repairing the motors if need be.

    Craig
     
  7. STR-6046A

    STR-6046A Member

    Messages:
    78
    you don't by any chance remember a link to to one of the repairs do you, Sir?
     
  8. llwhtt

    llwhtt Super Member

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    It was either here or DIYaudio, other than that I don't remember. Google is your friend.

    Craig
     
  9. markthefixer

    markthefixer On Hiatus, dealing with Dad's estate full time Subscriber

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    Compare finger twisting supply and take up, neither should be hard to move.

    And I would suspect the motor drive tire first, although someone could have hurt that spring. I assume it is a recent acquisition.
    We have never gotten into voltage and current measurements of a properly functioning motor. We might have to...

    The motor is mostly controlled (Q803 is the exception) by switches and shows +/- 11.5 volts during normal operation. Dirty switches could be starving the motor. READ the voltages during operation - use clip leads to the transport's interim terminals as opposed to the somewhat more fragile motor tabs, so that you can watch the voltage as you increase the tension and cause some movement.

    edit: Thanks Rich, I was beating my brains about the brakes, it's been a few years since I was inside a deck, and my bare transports are buried deeper than I can currently dig.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
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  10. pustelniakr

    pustelniakr Silver Miner at Large Super Mod Subscriber

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    Lift the brakes before manually testing the reels for resistance.

    Do the reels move during fast modes? If I remember correctly, reel drive differs between play and fast modes.

    Enjoy,
    Rich P

    Enjoy,
    Rich P
     
  11. STR-6046A

    STR-6046A Member

    Messages:
    78
    ok so i get in both directions 11.57V at the ff rev motor at first. then it shuts off. when I manually manipulate the arm it stays at ~11.50V then drops to ~11.3xV, when the tape speed drops significantly.
    The next step would probably be to get some more Deoxit and clean the switches up.
    maybe I should look into getting this tension spring replaced
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  12. STR-6046A

    STR-6046A Member

    Messages:
    78
    When I lifted the brake and compared the reels, then i could feel a slight more distance on the take up reel compared to the supply reel. But that could be the resistance of the counter. It's minuscule, really.
     
  13. markthefixer

    markthefixer On Hiatus, dealing with Dad's estate full time Subscriber

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    The tape movement sensor needs deoxit, if the two small belts are connected to it and turning it.

    turn the interim double pulley set which is also the tape motion detector by hand with an ohmmeter monitoring the contacts.

    The 9191 tape movement sensor is contacts, others are optical fans or hall elements. Not gonna look them up for now.
     
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  14. STR-6046A

    STR-6046A Member

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    78
    I noticed that sensor, I figured it had a hall sensor or maybe a LED inside.

    How is that switch supposed to work? does it trigger by motion and closes? or does it go on/off when spinning? mine seems to close the circuit when spinning.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  15. markthefixer

    markthefixer On Hiatus, dealing with Dad's estate full time Subscriber

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    on/off when spinning. a few seconds of no motion triggers the circuit watching it when all the caps are behaving themselves.
     
  16. STR-6046A

    STR-6046A Member

    Messages:
    78
    Then it works as it is supposed to.
    Do you have one of those tensioner springs?
     
  17. markthefixer

    markthefixer On Hiatus, dealing with Dad's estate full time Subscriber

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    hard
    Hard to say, I'd have to dig out the spare transports I squirreled away and then open them up.
    Don't have time to dig them out, nor space to open them up on to look inside.

    I can't imagine anyone STRETCHING them out to make them weaker...

    I still say try the motor drive "pulley" or "tire" although it looks more like a pencil eraser.
     
  18. STR-6046A

    STR-6046A Member

    Messages:
    78

    it could have been worn to the extend of it not making proper contact, but how would that be the only part worn so badly? I mean you saw what he clutch tire looked like, did it look worn to you?
     
  19. markthefixer

    markthefixer On Hiatus, dealing with Dad's estate full time Subscriber

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    The motor drive "pulley" or "tire" takes all the abuse, the clutch tire is subject to only the force transmitted through the clutch and the drag of the reel.

    Then there's the grip striations on the mating drive face of the clutch that help to chew it up.
     
  20. STR-6046A

    STR-6046A Member

    Messages:
    78
    i see... Mark is there a replacement for this drive pulley tire?
     

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